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Yes we don't actually know how many there are. The NCVS says 108,000 per year which I think is the most accurate. Most gun surveys are tiny(5,000 or fewer surveyed) and filled with false positives. The NCVS study involves 90k households. There simply isn't any real world facts to support the huge numbers. You can't believe there are 800,000 DGUs a year, but only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense? Only about 50 make the news even though guns and crime make great stories?
The 1993 NCVS number is acknowledged by almost all researchers as understating the true number of DGU's because the participants in the study are never directly asked whether they used a gun for self-protection.
"Philip Cook, the director of Duke University's public policy institute, has examined the data behind the 108,000 and the 2.5 million figures and suspects the truth lies somewhere in between. "Many of the basic statistics about guns are in wide disagreement with each other depending on which source you go to," says Cook, a member of the apolitical National Consortium on Violence Research. "That's been a real puzzle to people who are trying to understand what's going on."
As I said, most researchers believe the actual number is at least 500,000 per year.
Well look at the facts we know. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Only about 50 defenses makes the news each year. People who have had a DGU are rare, I don't know anyone.
The NCVS asks about crime which is what you need to have a DGU. And it does ask what happened very clearly so DGUs would be noted.
Most people don't want to kill other people. The reason why there are so few DGU with fatalities I because people are nice and don't just shoot people because they can.
On this very board there are people who can't wait to shoot a criminal. Certainly what you are saying is true for many people. To believe there are 2 million defenses each year you'd have to believe a criminal is shot and killed one out of every 8700 defenses. People just aren't that nice. Keep in mind that 500 people are accidently shot and killed each year.
Yeah? So? They're in the minority and further, they are anonymous posters who could just as likely be lying to you.
The 1993 NCVS number is acknowledged by almost all researchers as understating the true number of DGU's because the participants in the study are never directly asked whether they used a gun for self-protection.
"Philip Cook, the director of Duke University's public policy institute, has examined the data behind the 108,000 and the 2.5 million figures and suspects the truth lies somewhere in between. "Many of the basic statistics about guns are in wide disagreement with each other depending on which source you go to," says Cook, a member of the apolitical National Consortium on Violence Research. "That's been a real puzzle to people who are trying to understand what's going on."
As I said, most researchers believe the actual number is at least 500,000 per year.
Well look at the facts we know. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Only about 50 defenses makes the news each year. People who have had a DGU are rare, I don't know anyone.
The NCVS asks about crime which is what you need to have a DGU. And it does ask what happened very clearly so DGUs would be noted.
Most people don't want to kill other people. The reason why there are so few DGU with fatalities I because people are nice and don't just shoot people because they can.
On this very board there are people who can't wait to shoot a criminal. Certainly what you are saying is true for many people. To believe there are 2 million defenses each year you'd have to believe a criminal is shot and killed one out of every 8700 defenses. People just aren't that nice. Keep in mind that 500 people are accidently shot and killed each year.
Yeah? So? They're in the minority and further, they are anonymous posters who could just as likely be lying to you.
Here are the results of an actual study on the subject:
At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant
was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender,
at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf
Well look at the facts we know. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Only about 50 defenses makes the news each year. People who have had a DGU are rare, I don't know anyone.
The NCVS asks about crime which is what you need to have a DGU. And it does ask what happened very clearly so DGUs would be noted.
Most people don't want to kill other people. The reason why there are so few DGU with fatalities I because people are nice and don't just shoot people because they can.
On this very board there are people who can't wait to shoot a criminal. Certainly what you are saying is true for many people. To believe there are 2 million defenses each year you'd have to believe a criminal is shot and killed one out of every 8700 defenses. People just aren't that nice. Keep in mind that 500 people are accidently shot and killed each year.
Yeah? So? They're in the minority and further, they are anonymous posters who could just as likely be lying to you.
Here are the results of an actual study on the subject:
At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant
was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender,
at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf
Brain....really, an analysis based on the stories in "The Armed Citizen" blog of the NRA that simply collects some, not all, some news stories that make it into the national news.....and you are making a definitive statement about gun use from that........again....we have been through this before, you know they don't collect all the actual self defense shootings in the country only those that get covered in the mainstream news.....
That sample is good for that sample........
Do some more work....
Most people don't want to kill other people. The reason why there are so few DGU with fatalities I because people are nice and don't just shoot people because they can.
On this very board there are people who can't wait to shoot a criminal. Certainly what you are saying is true for many people. To believe there are 2 million defenses each year you'd have to believe a criminal is shot and killed one out of every 8700 defenses. People just aren't that nice. Keep in mind that 500 people are accidently shot and killed each year.
Yeah? So? They're in the minority and further, they are anonymous posters who could just as likely be lying to you.
Here are the results of an actual study on the subject:
At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant
was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender,
at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf
Brain....really, an analysis based on the stories in "The Armed Citizen" blog of the NRA that simply collects some, not all, some news stories that make it into the national news.....and you are making a definitive statement about gun use from that........again....we have been through this before, you know they don't collect all the actual self defense shootings in the country only those that get covered in the mainstream news.....
That sample is good for that sample........
Do some more work....
Yes a large sample of actual confirmed DGUs. We have been through this and you have nothing to counter it.
On this very board there are people who can't wait to shoot a criminal. Certainly what you are saying is true for many people. To believe there are 2 million defenses each year you'd have to believe a criminal is shot and killed one out of every 8700 defenses. People just aren't that nice. Keep in mind that 500 people are accidently shot and killed each year.
Yeah? So? They're in the minority and further, they are anonymous posters who could just as likely be lying to you.
Here are the results of an actual study on the subject:
At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant
was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender,
at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf
Brain....really, an analysis based on the stories in "The Armed Citizen" blog of the NRA that simply collects some, not all, some news stories that make it into the national news.....and you are making a definitive statement about gun use from that........again....we have been through this before, you know they don't collect all the actual self defense shootings in the country only those that get covered in the mainstream news.....
That sample is good for that sample........
Do some more work....
Yes a large sample of actual confirmed DGUs. We have been through this and you have nothing to counter it.
I have truth and actual research techniques to counter it......they just look at cases they find in the media...that the media chooses to print......that's it......and those are the ones they can actually find.....you are really nuts brain......
As usual, it's all about show not substance. Go git 'em Tex, the Dairy Queen will be so much safer now...
Texas legislators approve licensed open carry bill sending it to Gov. Abbott Dallas Morning News
Yeah? So? They're in the minority and further, they are anonymous posters who could just as likely be lying to you.
Here are the results of an actual study on the subject:
At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant
was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender,
at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf
Brain....really, an analysis based on the stories in "The Armed Citizen" blog of the NRA that simply collects some, not all, some news stories that make it into the national news.....and you are making a definitive statement about gun use from that........again....we have been through this before, you know they don't collect all the actual self defense shootings in the country only those that get covered in the mainstream news.....
That sample is good for that sample........
Do some more work....
Yes a large sample of actual confirmed DGUs. We have been through this and you have nothing to counter it.
I have truth and actual research techniques to counter it......they just look at cases they find in the media...that the media chooses to print......that's it......and those are the ones they can actually find.....you are really nuts brain......
Yes actual confirmed DGUs. Not imaginary ones. Sorry it's what has actually happened.
Here are the results of an actual study on the subject:
At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant
was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender,
at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf
Brain....really, an analysis based on the stories in "The Armed Citizen" blog of the NRA that simply collects some, not all, some news stories that make it into the national news.....and you are making a definitive statement about gun use from that........again....we have been through this before, you know they don't collect all the actual self defense shootings in the country only those that get covered in the mainstream news.....
That sample is good for that sample........
Do some more work....
Yes a large sample of actual confirmed DGUs. We have been through this and you have nothing to counter it.
I have truth and actual research techniques to counter it......they just look at cases they find in the media...that the media chooses to print......that's it......and those are the ones they can actually find.....you are really nuts brain......
Yes actual confirmed DGUs. Not imaginary ones. Sorry it's what has actually happened.
brain...again....you either have no idea how stupid your argument on this is or you are just trying to keep a fight going.......the only reason those stories made it into the news was because they caught the attention of the news people...that is why there are so many kills....and actual shots fired.......it is not a scientifically done study...they took it from the NRA website and the part of the site that collects some, not even close to all the shootings each month or year....
I like the "Armed Citizen" because it gives the stories of actual self defense shootings and they show that the people who are caught up in a violent attack act rationally and with a great deal of control......
But it in no way represents a complete look at defensive gun use.....
Brain....really, an analysis based on the stories in "The Armed Citizen" blog of the NRA that simply collects some, not all, some news stories that make it into the national news.....and you are making a definitive statement about gun use from that........again....we have been through this before, you know they don't collect all the actual self defense shootings in the country only those that get covered in the mainstream news.....
That sample is good for that sample........
Do some more work....
Yes a large sample of actual confirmed DGUs. We have been through this and you have nothing to counter it.
I have truth and actual research techniques to counter it......they just look at cases they find in the media...that the media chooses to print......that's it......and those are the ones they can actually find.....you are really nuts brain......
Yes actual confirmed DGUs. Not imaginary ones. Sorry it's what has actually happened.
brain...again....you either have no idea how stupid your argument on this is or you are just trying to keep a fight going.......the only reason those stories made it into the news was because they caught the attention of the news people...that is why there are so many kills....and actual shots fired.......it is not a scientifically done study...they took it from the NRA website and the part of the site that collects some, not even close to all the shootings each month or year....
I like the "Armed Citizen" because it gives the stories of actual self defense shootings and they show that the people who are caught up in a violent attack act rationally and with a great deal of control......
But it in no way represents a complete look at defensive gun use.....
It is a study of what actually happened during confirmed defenses. You have nothing that counters it.
Yes a large sample of actual confirmed DGUs. We have been through this and you have nothing to counter it.
I have truth and actual research techniques to counter it......they just look at cases they find in the media...that the media chooses to print......that's it......and those are the ones they can actually find.....you are really nuts brain......
Yes actual confirmed DGUs. Not imaginary ones. Sorry it's what has actually happened.
brain...again....you either have no idea how stupid your argument on this is or you are just trying to keep a fight going.......the only reason those stories made it into the news was because they caught the attention of the news people...that is why there are so many kills....and actual shots fired.......it is not a scientifically done study...they took it from the NRA website and the part of the site that collects some, not even close to all the shootings each month or year....
I like the "Armed Citizen" because it gives the stories of actual self defense shootings and they show that the people who are caught up in a violent attack act rationally and with a great deal of control......
But it in no way represents a complete look at defensive gun use.....
It is a study of what actually happened during confirmed defenses. You have nothing that counters it.
brain....you are a moron....it is what happened in the stories they collected....not all defensive gun uses.....
"The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports also significantly overstate murders and understate defensive gun uses. If the police investigat a homicide and ask the district attorney to charge someone with murder or manslaughter, that is reported as a murder to the Uniform Crime Reports program. But district attorney's will often investigate a case in the weeks afterward, find evidence that the killing was justifiable or excusable homicide, and drop the case entirely.
---------------------------Further, some of the charges, are found to be justifiable or excusable homocide by judges and juries during a trial. this is very often the case in spousal abuse situations where a woman defends herself or her children from an estranged husband.9 A killing initially charged as a murder or negligent homicide that is later reclassified as a justifiable or excusable homicide, will not be moved in the Uniform Crime Reports data from the homicide column to the justifiable homicide column."
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."
At one time, it was widely believed that a fairly large percentage of defensive gun uses
might be criminals defending themselves from other criminals: marijuana growers protecting their crops, gang members de- fending themselves from other gang mem- bers, a falling out between members of a criminal enterprise. That was only specula- tion. For a long time, there was not much in the way of actual data.
Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12
There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.
In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.
In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.
This is what you claim is definitive research.....and why we don't trust you gun grabbers for anything you say or post.....lying and emotion are all you have....
The Armed Citizen – A Five Year Analysis
OVERVIEW OF SURVEY
For the period 1997 - 2001, reports from "The Armed Citizen" column of the NRA Journals were
collected. There were 482 incidents available for inclusion in the analysis. All involved the use of
firearms by private citizens in self defense or defense of others. No law enforcement related incidents
were included. The database is self-selecting in that no non-positive outcomes were reported in the
column.
DATA
Brain...here is a more comprehensive look at shootings in the news and what they tell us about shootings covered by the media....the time is longer and the number of stories is greater...but again....it isn't done with any real scientific method behind it......and they even admit it.....
From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"
"The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports also significantly overstate murders and understate defensive gun uses. If the police investigat a homicide and ask the district attorney to charge someone with murder or manslaughter, that is reported as a murder to the Uniform Crime Reports program. But district attorney's will often investigate a case in the weeks afterward, find evidence that the killing was justifiable or excusable homicide, and drop the case entirely.
---------------------------Further, some of the charges, are found to be justifiable or excusable homocide by judges and juries during a trial. this is very often the case in spousal abuse situations where a woman defends herself or her children from an estranged husband.9 A killing initially charged as a murder or negligent homicide that is later reclassified as a justifiable or excusable homicide, will not be moved in the Uniform Crime Reports data from the homicide column to the justifiable homicide column."
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....
And they say because of this.......
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."
The Data Set
At one time, it was widely believed that a fairly large percentage of defensive gun uses
might be criminals defending themselves from other criminals: marijuana growers protecting their crops, gang members de- fending themselves from other gang mem- bers, a falling out between members of a criminal enterprise. That was only specula- tion. For a long time, there was not much in the way of actual data.
Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12
There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.
In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.
As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........
In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.
I have truth and actual research techniques to counter it......they just look at cases they find in the media...that the media chooses to print......that's it......and those are the ones they can actually find.....you are really nuts brain......
Yes actual confirmed DGUs. Not imaginary ones. Sorry it's what has actually happened.
brain...again....you either have no idea how stupid your argument on this is or you are just trying to keep a fight going.......the only reason those stories made it into the news was because they caught the attention of the news people...that is why there are so many kills....and actual shots fired.......it is not a scientifically done study...they took it from the NRA website and the part of the site that collects some, not even close to all the shootings each month or year....
I like the "Armed Citizen" because it gives the stories of actual self defense shootings and they show that the people who are caught up in a violent attack act rationally and with a great deal of control......
But it in no way represents a complete look at defensive gun use.....
It is a study of what actually happened during confirmed defenses. You have nothing that counters it.
brain....you are a moron....it is what happened in the stories they collected....not all defensive gun uses.....
Yes a sample of 5 years of confirmed DGUs. You think 50 unconfirmed positive responses from a survey 25 years ago confirms millions of DGUs and you call me a moron? Don't be such a joke. This is 5 years of confirmed DGUs.
Brain...here is a more comprehensive look at shootings in the news and what they tell us about shootings covered by the media....the time is longer and the number of stories is greater...but again....it isn't done with any real scientific method behind it......and they even admit it.....
From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"
"The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports also significantly overstate murders and understate defensive gun uses. If the police investigat a homicide and ask the district attorney to charge someone with murder or manslaughter, that is reported as a murder to the Uniform Crime Reports program. But district attorney's will often investigate a case in the weeks afterward, find evidence that the killing was justifiable or excusable homicide, and drop the case entirely.
---------------------------Further, some of the charges, are found to be justifiable or excusable homocide by judges and juries during a trial. this is very often the case in spousal abuse situations where a woman defends herself or her children from an estranged husband.9 A killing initially charged as a murder or negligent homicide that is later reclassified as a justifiable or excusable homicide, will not be moved in the Uniform Crime Reports data from the homicide column to the justifiable homicide column."
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....
And they say because of this.......
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."
The Data Set
At one time, it was widely believed that a fairly large percentage of defensive gun uses
might be criminals defending themselves from other criminals: marijuana growers protecting their crops, gang members de- fending themselves from other gang mem- bers, a falling out between members of a criminal enterprise. That was only specula- tion. For a long time, there was not much in the way of actual data.
Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12
There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.
In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.
As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........
In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.
Right wing/pro gun often wrong Cato? You must be joking.
Yes actual confirmed DGUs. Not imaginary ones. Sorry it's what has actually happened.
brain...again....you either have no idea how stupid your argument on this is or you are just trying to keep a fight going.......the only reason those stories made it into the news was because they caught the attention of the news people...that is why there are so many kills....and actual shots fired.......it is not a scientifically done study...they took it from the NRA website and the part of the site that collects some, not even close to all the shootings each month or year....
I like the "Armed Citizen" because it gives the stories of actual self defense shootings and they show that the people who are caught up in a violent attack act rationally and with a great deal of control......
But it in no way represents a complete look at defensive gun use.....
It is a study of what actually happened during confirmed defenses. You have nothing that counters it.
brain....you are a moron....it is what happened in the stories they collected....not all defensive gun uses.....
Yes a sample of 5 years of confirmed DGUs. You think 50 unconfirmed positive responses from a survey 25 years ago confirms millions of DGUs and you call me a moron? Don't be such a joke. This is 5 years of confirmed DGUs.
Moron, the studies I post are from actual researchers trained in research....conducted over a 40 year period, 16 different studies, done by both public and private researchers, many of them anti gun researchers, and they come up with the numbers using actual research methodologies.....
Brain...here is a more comprehensive look at shootings in the news and what they tell us about shootings covered by the media....the time is longer and the number of stories is greater...but again....it isn't done with any real scientific method behind it......and they even admit it.....
From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"
"The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports also significantly overstate murders and understate defensive gun uses. If the police investigat a homicide and ask the district attorney to charge someone with murder or manslaughter, that is reported as a murder to the Uniform Crime Reports program. But district attorney's will often investigate a case in the weeks afterward, find evidence that the killing was justifiable or excusable homicide, and drop the case entirely.
---------------------------Further, some of the charges, are found to be justifiable or excusable homocide by judges and juries during a trial. this is very often the case in spousal abuse situations where a woman defends herself or her children from an estranged husband.9 A killing initially charged as a murder or negligent homicide that is later reclassified as a justifiable or excusable homicide, will not be moved in the Uniform Crime Reports data from the homicide column to the justifiable homicide column."
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....
And they say because of this.......
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."
The Data Set
At one time, it was widely believed that a fairly large percentage of defensive gun uses
might be criminals defending themselves from other criminals: marijuana growers protecting their crops, gang members de- fending themselves from other gang mem- bers, a falling out between members of a criminal enterprise. That was only specula- tion. For a long time, there was not much in the way of actual data.
Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12
There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.
In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.
As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........
In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.
Right wing/pro gun often wrong Cato? You must be joking.
Brain....are you really that much of a moron....the post you listed takes their 482 stories directly from the NRA website.....are you that clueless.......?
brain...again....you either have no idea how stupid your argument on this is or you are just trying to keep a fight going.......the only reason those stories made it into the news was because they caught the attention of the news people...that is why there are so many kills....and actual shots fired.......it is not a scientifically done study...they took it from the NRA website and the part of the site that collects some, not even close to all the shootings each month or year....
I like the "Armed Citizen" because it gives the stories of actual self defense shootings and they show that the people who are caught up in a violent attack act rationally and with a great deal of control......
But it in no way represents a complete look at defensive gun use.....
It is a study of what actually happened during confirmed defenses. You have nothing that counters it.
brain....you are a moron....it is what happened in the stories they collected....not all defensive gun uses.....
Yes a sample of 5 years of confirmed DGUs. You think 50 unconfirmed positive responses from a survey 25 years ago confirms millions of DGUs and you call me a moron? Don't be such a joke. This is 5 years of confirmed DGUs.
Moron, the studies I post are from actual researchers trained in research....conducted over a 40 year period, 16 different studies, done by both public and private researchers, many of them anti gun researchers, and they come up with the numbers using actual research methodologies.....
Not a single confirmed dgu in those studies. And so accurate the results range from 500k- 3.6 million. And the best one is working with a whole 50 positives.
It is a study of what actually happened during confirmed defenses. You have nothing that counters it.
brain....you are a moron....it is what happened in the stories they collected....not all defensive gun uses.....
Yes a sample of 5 years of confirmed DGUs. You think 50 unconfirmed positive responses from a survey 25 years ago confirms millions of DGUs and you call me a moron? Don't be such a joke. This is 5 years of confirmed DGUs.
Moron, the studies I post are from actual researchers trained in research....conducted over a 40 year period, 16 different studies, done by both public and private researchers, many of them anti gun researchers, and they come up with the numbers using actual research methodologies.....
Not a single confirmed dgu in those studies. And so accurate the results range from 500k- 3.6 million. And the best one is working with a whole 50 positives.
16 actual studies brain.......lying about them doesn't make the truth go away......and a couple were funded by clinton and obama......not exactly friends to the 2nd Amendment......
