Debate Now The 2016 Campaign, Election and Aftermath

Who are you currently leaning toward to be President?

  • Hillary Clinton

  • Ted Cruz

  • John Kasich

  • Marco Rubio

  • Bernie Sanders

  • Donald Trump

  • Other and I'll specify in my post

  • I don't have a preference yet


Results are only viewable after voting.
I can't evaluate a candidate on one misspeak

I doubt anyone does or would. But look at how often Trump "misspeaks." He's up to 95 times now, that's up from 83 when I checked last week. In fairness, his occasions of telling the truth have gone up too. They are now at three, up from last week's two.

And that is the problem with Trump and what he says. All the enthusiasm in the world isn't worth a hill of beans if it's based on things that largely aren't true. When one has a higher increase in the mostly false (or worse) statements one makes than in the bump in true ones, that's a real problem because it indicates one cannot rely on what the man says.

As I've said before, it illustrates that by and by a large margin, if the man's mouth is open, he's snoring, eating or lying.

Well I prefer to draw my own conclusions about the truthfulness of what people say and I base those conclusions on what I know about the subject. If I don't know a great deal about the subject, I reserve my judgment until I do.

I do however take anything Politifact says with a grain of salt. I have caught them in far too many questionable 'rulings' myself and I don't seem to be the only one:

Who’s Checking the Fact Checkers?

As well you should. I won't accept someone else's assertions about what is so or not so without reading the details of the situation. With quite a lot of PolitiFact (PF) remarks, I do bother to "click" on the summary numbers to find out what they offer as an explanation for their judgement call. I have come across instances whereby they and I have differing assessments about things. Most often those things fall into these categories:
  • PF says it mostly false and I say it's wholly false.
  • PF says it's "wholly false and I say it's only mostly false.
  • The same "flips" as go true and mostly true.
  • I have yet to disagree with their assertions of "pants on fire" false or with what they say is fully true.
  • Generally, I ignore half true because that stuff is also half false and it's not likely to be fully true or fully false. Were a given individual on the margin, so to speak, then I'd look at the "half" stuff.

But when you have an analyst or poll or fact checker that is looking for a specific answer rather than the correct answer, they cannot be taken seriously by serious people. I think politifact looks for a specific answer rather than the correct answer.
 
Isn't it sad that we can't just find sources for facts that are agreed upon to both sides? No wonder we rarely get to have a serious political debate in our country!
 
Alexis de Tocqueville once wrote: "There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle." I am sure he would also have said that there are many fine journalists, but no media group of principle. And unfortunately the fact checkers also too often have their own dog in the fight and slant their conclusions in that direction.

I wonder how much different our modern society and politics would be if we would reject political parties and who we want to win and/or left/right or us vs them in favor of arguing concepts of right and wrong?
 
Isn't it sad that we can't just find sources for facts that are agreed upon to both sides? No wonder we rarely get to have a serious political debate in our country!

Hey Dhara....

It is a sad development. You're correct about that. However, I think the winning position is solidify your position and not worry so much about the debate. Most people here are no more interested in debate than they are in buying a time-share.
You're smart enough to know what you saw with your eyes and heard with your ears.

For example, Donald Trump, in my view, after the first GOP debate was obviously referring to Ms. Kelly being on her monthly. I do not know if you agree with me or not. I'm unconcerned if you do or not. There would be zero reason for him to refer to blood or her "whatever". A great many persons on this message board will insist that he was not speaking about her time of the month and that his choice of words was simply colorful I suppose. At some point, when people are brandishing such dishonesty...debate is impossible.

A while later he mocked a reporter by mimicking with his hands the physical disability the report has. It is just about as classless a move as one has seen in politics; ever. He says he didn't know the reporter was disabled and the flailing hands was just a coincidence. Since then, Trump has mocked several reporters. But, surprisingly, he has not flailed his arms around in an attempt to show how a reporter would react. Obviously, he has done it for this one reporter... Of course his supporters believe his fantastic story and gave him another pass.

As an adult, you either have to think he did something wrong or he did nothing wrong. RIght? I mean, if you have any opinion...you either agree that he just happened to reference blood and her "whatever" about Ms. Kelly and he just happened to flail his arms around when talking about a disabled reporter.

If he thinks he did nothing wrong, why has he not said the same thing about other women or did his little dance when talking about other reporters?

Obviously, such statements and acts only endear him to his supporters--he put an impressive string of victories together...so why change the behavior...unless you know it is tasteless.

Anyway, I have zero need to debate such antics with his supporters; only to allow them to take such bizarre positions that there is little chance to recover. There is no doubt that I am correct so what is the point is debate with people who assume a posture of "he was wrong...but"?
 
So the Wisconsin primary is now behind us and I believe we have two weeks until the next one.

Democratic winner - Bernie Sanders 56.6% to Hillary Clinton 43.1%
Republican winners - Ted Cruz 48.2% to Donald Trump 35.1% to John Kasich 14.1%

Delegate count: Clinton 1748 to Sanders 1058 but Sanders has won I think 7 of the last 8 primary elections? The momentum seems to be with him.

Delegate count: Trump 743 to Cruz 517. Hard to say where the momentum is.
 
longknife - would you please post an update of the RCP tally for both the Republicans and the Democrats? I have never figured out how to copy and paste an Adobe flashplayer image.
 
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There was an interesting commentary on the Rasmussen Report this morning.

Excerpt:
. . .The problem for Kasich is that GOP voters don’t want a brokered convention: 51% say the candidate who enters the convention with the most delegates should be the nominee. Just 34% think the delegates at the convention should choose the nominee by voting for whomever they want.

Unfortunately for him, too, Republicans don’t have a superdelegate set-up like Democrats do that would allow the party leadership to steer the nomination to its preferred candidate.

Even Karl Rove, the dean of Republican political operatives who lost his candidate when Jeb Bush flamed out, doesn't think nominating someone who can't win primaries is a good idea. Rove, however, is no fan of either Trump or Cruz, so he now suggests that perhaps the party needs “a fresh face” as a nominee. Translation: We’ll sacrifice our guy (Kasich) if you sacrifice your guys (Trump, Cruz). . . .​
Kasich Plays the Spoiler - Rasmussen Reports™
 
The problem for Kasich is that GOP voters don’t want a brokered convention: 51% say the candidate who enters the convention with the most delegates should be the nominee. Just 34% think the delegates at the convention should choose the nominee by voting for whomever they want.

Well, it's all well and good that that's what they say, but the fact remains that the convention rules of their very own party require a majority of voter support not a plurality of voter support in order to secure the nomination of the GOP on the first ballot whereupon the delegates representing the voters vote in accordance with the wishes of those voters. Accordingly, if the voters fail to demonstrate a majority during the course of the primary process, they must accede to the decision of their delegates.

Nobody forced those voters to be members of the GOP. Nobody forced them to vote in their jurisdiction's primary or for a GOP candidate. By choosing to belong to the GOP, one does not get to choose which provisions of the party one will accept and which of them one rejects.

Take the Tea Party, for example. They call themselves a party, but at the end of the day, they don't have the "cajones" to form an actual party and so they exist within the GOP and thereby shove the mainstream of the GOP to the right rather than standing on their own and making the case for their position. The friggin' pansy-ass Tea Partiers haven't even enough confidence in their own positions to stand on their own and make their case. No. They piggy-back on the GOP and try to make the whole party, and the rest of the rest of the country really, succumb to their will by force majeure rather than on the strength of cogent arguments.

Frankly, I thought Trump should have, from the get go, run as an independent. He has the money do so. He then as now got more than enough "free press" not to need the support of an established party. He could have been the founder of a third party; he could have been seen as a founder of something far bigger than himself or his company. Did he do that? No. He joined the GOP. One consequence of that is that he must play by the GOP's rules a goes obtaining the GOP Presidential nomination and its support in his electoral campaign to become a GOP President. All the other members of the GOP must do the same.

As we near the Democratic convention, it is possible that the Democrats too have a "brokered" convention. If they do they do. You don't see Democrats having conniptions over the prospect of having to "do it" in accordance with the rules of their party, now do you? Do you think that might be because Democrats aren't folks who want to have and eat their cake? Hmmm....
 
The problem for Kasich is that GOP voters don’t want a brokered convention: 51% say the candidate who enters the convention with the most delegates should be the nominee. Just 34% think the delegates at the convention should choose the nominee by voting for whomever they want.

Well, it's all well and good that that's what they say, but the fact remains that the convention rules of their very own party require a majority of voter support not a plurality of voter support in order to secure the nomination of the GOP on the first ballot whereupon the delegates representing the voters vote in accordance with the wishes of those voters. Accordingly, if the voters fail to demonstrate a majority during the course of the primary process, they must accede to the decision of their delegates.

Nobody forced those voters to be members of the GOP. Nobody forced them to vote in their jurisdiction's primary or for a GOP candidate. By choosing to belong to the GOP, one does not get to choose which provisions of the party one will accept and which of them one rejects.

Take the Tea Party, for example. They call themselves a party, but at the end of the day, they don't have the "cajones" to form an actual party and so they exist within the GOP and thereby shove the mainstream of the GOP to the right rather than standing on their own and making the case for their position. The friggin' pansy-ass Tea Partiers haven't even enough confidence in their own positions to stand on their own and make their case. No. They piggy-back on the GOP and try to make the whole party, and the rest of the rest of the country really, succumb to their will by force majeure rather than on the strength of cogent arguments.

Frankly, I thought Trump should have, from the get go, run as an independent. He has the money do so. He then as now got more than enough "free press" not to need the support of an established party. He could have been the founder of a third party; he could have been seen as a founder of something far bigger than himself or his company. Did he do that? No. He joined the GOP. One consequence of that is that he must play by the GOP's rules a goes obtaining the GOP Presidential nomination and its support in his electoral campaign to become a GOP President. All the other members of the GOP must do the same.

As we near the Democratic convention, it is possible that the Democrats too have a "brokered" convention. If they do they do. You don't see Democrats having conniptions over the prospect of having to "do it" in accordance with the rules of their party, now do you? Do you think that might be because Democrats aren't folks who want to have and eat their cake? Hmmm....

Have the Democrats threatened to change their rules because they don't like who the nominee might be? Anyway the Democrats pretty much have rules to ensure that the party bosses choose the candidate they want via their super delegates system. In other words they don't care what the people want and, so long as they promise enough freebies and say all the politically correct things to their constituency, their constituency doesn't really seem to care whether they are part of the process or not.

It is not that the candidates must abide by the rules the GOP has set down, but that the GOP party bosses now seem to be threatening to throw out those rules in favor of new ones because it isn't going the way they want it to go. In other words, a thumb in the eye of the people's choice if the people choose wrong. There is a great deal of resentment about that, and rightfully so.

And you present an extremely distorted view of what the 'Tea Party" is. It was never designed or intended to be a political party of any kind. It is an idea, a principle, a conviction re what this country was intended to be. They chose the GOP to exert what influence they had as they saw the GOP as far more 'big tent' in receiving new ideas and at least willing to give lip service to smaller, more efficient, more effective government and constitutional principles of limited government and liberty. They have never wanted to be a third party, but only to reform the existing one

They underestimated the tenacity and under handedness and power of the GOP establishment, however, just as any visionary Democrat underestimates the Democrat establishment.
 
And for those who won't vote or who will vote third party if Trump or Cruz are the nominee, Mark Levin had some biting words for that on his radio program yesterday. (Note: Levin officially endorsed Cruz and has been scathingly critical of Trump):

. . .“Now those people out there, those people out there who are saying ‘stop Trump,’ I can understand ‘stop Trump’ in a primary process,” Levin said. “But stop Trump or you’ll vote for Hillary? Stop Trump or you won’t vote at all? These people are not conservatives. They’re not constitutionalists. They’re frauds. They’re fakes. They’re not brave. They’re asinine. They’re buffoons.”

Levin went on to say despite all of his criticisms of Trump that he would vote Trump over Clinton, who he blamed for a number of U.S. foreign policy shortcomings around the globe.

“Has anybody at a national level, perhaps there are some,” he added. “I just can’t listen to everybody been as clear in his disagreements with Donald Trump as I have, particularly when it comes to trade? Particularly when it comes to quotas? I don’t believe so, but if I’m wrong it really doesn’t matter. And yet why would somebody like me who has voiced grave concerns about some of Trump’s agenda – and by the way, antics, temperament, among other things – say, ‘Yes, I will vote for Donald Trump easily over Hillary Clinton.’ Well the answer is really quite simple. If you believe as I do or as many people have said that Hillary Clinton is a criminal in waiting.” . . .​

Levin on 'Stop Trump' Supporters Voting for Hillary or Staying Home: 'Frauds,' 'Fakes,' 'Asinine,' 'Buffoons' - Breitbart

Disclaimer: I DO NOT agree with Levin that those who say they won't vote for Trump or Cruz or whomever no matter what are the 'buffoons' or 'frauds' etc. that he says. I believe those are sincere people with real problems with this or that candidate.. But I agree with him, that nobody the GOP has put up could possibly be as dangerous or evil or bad as Hillary or Bernie would be as POTUS. And a vote for anybody other than the GOP candidate is a vote for Hillary or Bernie.
 
the GOP party bosses now seem to be threatening to throw out those rules in favor of new ones....There is a great deal of resentment about that, and rightfully so.

Assuming the GOP party bosses do indeed throw out the rules that were in place at the start of the 2016 campaign cycle, I agree, the resentment they'll face will be well deserved. If on the other hand they merely use the existing rules to keep someone, anyone, from becoming the party's Presidential nominee when that person has won a plurality but not the majority of GOP votes during the primary, well, that's within the realm of what's allowed as far as I'm concerned.
 
Right now John Kasich has won one state, his own state of Ohio. And he only won that by 46.8% though that netted him all 66 Ohio delegates. Trump got 35.6% of the vote in Ohio; Cruz 13.1%. Kasich is projected to have a moderately good chance to win Maryland and Connecticutt for another 66 delegates and Trump is leading the polls in I believe every other state that still has to vote. In other words Kasich's chances to win the requisite eight states are slim to none.

The party rules say that only candidates who have won at least eight states are to be considered for nomination at the convention. The scuttlebutt is that the party bosses are considered scrapping that rule so that Kasich will be in contention. That way, if neither Trump or Cruz win on the first ballot, they can order the delegates to the candidate they want. They are backing Cruz now only because he is their only hope to keep Trump from getting the required number of delegates before the convention convenes. But they don't want Cruz for their candidate any more than they want Trump.

It is disgustingly nasty business.
 
Last Wednesday - Post 207 - I posted this from the Rasmussen Report:

. . .The problem for Kasich is that GOP voters don’t want a brokered convention: 51% say the candidate who enters the convention with the most delegates should be the nominee. Just 34% think the delegates at the convention should choose the nominee by voting for whomever they want. . .​

Then today in the Rasmussen Report:


Tuesday, April 12, 2016

Most Republicans think Texas Senator Ted Cruz and Ohio Governor John Kasich have what it takes to be president, but GOP voters are evenly divided over whether the same is true of Donald Trump. Among all voters, however, only Kasich fills the bill.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 54% of Likely U.S. Voters believe Kasich is qualified to be president of the United States. But just 40% feel that way about Cruz, and only 27% think Trump, the GOP presidential front-runner, is ready for the job.

By comparison, 50% think Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton is qualified to be president, and 48% say her rival Bernie Sanders is, too.

Sixty-six percent (66%) say the billionaire businessman is not qualified for the White House, while 43% say the same of Cruz. Thirty percent (30%) say Kasich is not qualified enough. Most voters definitely have opinions about Trump, but 18% and 16% respectively are undecided about Cruz’s and Kasich’s qualifications. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
Most Republicans Say Kasich, Cruz Ready to Be President, Not Trump - Rasmussen Reports™

So now, does that have any implications for a brokered GOP convention that many think is more and more likely now?
 
Considering my last post, I was reading a Thomas Sowell essay also posted in the Rasmussen Report today in which he says:

. . .In so far as the voting public believes the fallacy that choosing someone other than Trump is ignoring "the voice of the people," when Trump has the most delegates, his threat carries weight.

In reality, Trump has never gotten a majority of the votes in any state. In other words, "the voice of the people" has been consistently against nominating Trump.

In a poll of Republican voters in Wisconsin, 20 percent of them said that they would be "concerned" if Trump became President of the United States, and 35 percent said that they would be "scared."

If "the voice of the people" has spoken, whether in Wisconsin or nationally, what it has said repeatedly is "No" to Donald Trump. The illusion of Trump's overwhelming appeal to the Republican voters has been maintained by the fragmenting of Republican votes because so many candidates were running as conservatives that Trump won primaries without ever getting a majority of the votes. . . .
The 'Voice of the People' Fallacy - Rasmussen Reports™

But as much as I have admired and learned from Dr. Sowell over many decades now, I wonder if his personal objection to the Donald is affecting his perspective here? Maybe not, but in truth, if nobody gets a clear majority, then does not a plurality count for something? Would Trump have been cracking that 50% mark and would he have easily earned the required number of delegates if there hadn't been so many other candidates running? We will never know.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been mostly lower than Trump's? Or what does it say about Kasich who has only won his home state and only got 47% of the vote to Trump's 36% there? Ted Cruz won his home state with 43.8% or the vote to Trumps 26.7%. Or all the others who are technically still candidates but who have suspended their campaigns because they were consistently losing everywhere?

They will all be eligible as candidates in an open convention scenario. And presumably a Romney or some other (cough) 'fresh face' could be put up to a vote in an open convention.

Again I am not a Donald Trump supporter at this time. But I am struggling with the paradoxes here.
 
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if nobody gets a clear majority, then does not a plurality count for something?

It does count for something, but that "something" isn't necessarily the GOP's nomination for President of the U.S. Until that nomination is obtained by someone, it's rather hard to say for what the plurality you mention counts.

In the case of Trump, it's especially hard to say for what it may count because he's the one GOP candidate who has some degree of appeal to non-GOP registered voters. Just how much is anyone's guess as far as I'm concerned, but most folks know (hopefully) that the man has spent the majority of his adult life as a Democrat, and the idea that his time as such didn't affect his political stances is preposterous.

Indeed, for my part, I think the only reason he registered and has run as a Republican is because he saw the prospect of running against Mrs. Clinton as too daunting for in terms of actually knowing details and procedures related to elections and governance, she'd run rings around him; he's far too out of his depth to have engaged her from the get go in primary races. In contrast, Cruz is so extreme, Rubio so "new," and Bush so establishment, that he had a good chance of being able to hold his own against them. Unfortunately, for Trump at least, he didn't "brush up" on content/substance -- matters of governance or GOP electoral mechanics -- and "do his homework" in time and now that's biting him in the ass because all he's got to offer, even now, is political pablum, and complaints, and the primaries and electorate have moved to a deeper level.

That said, save for political junkies, the electorate hasn't overall become so demanding that they wouldn't still support Trump in the general election. The one thing he has going for him against Mrs. Clinton is that there are a lot of dolts and "knee jerk" voters who will choose him over Mrs. Clinton largely because he's entertaining, they don't know much about him other than what they saw/see on The Apprentice, and finding information about Trump that he may not care to have well or widely known isn't easy because he's been a private citizen for so long.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
-- Carl Sagan, Cosmos

Like it or not, that aphorism works in Trump's favor....And for the record, I don't like that it does, but I accept that it does and understand why it does.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election...

The folks who so conclude are loons because the majority that matters most is the majority of pledged delegates. One need not crack 50% in any GOP primary election to obtain the majority of GOP pledged delegates. That's just the way the GOP primary rules work. One ignores those rules, which are not new, to one's dismay, as Trump is finding out.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been much lower than Trump's?

Nothing, logically speaking. The premise is sophistic to begin with as noted above. What of merit is there to take/make from an invalid premise?

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been much lower than Trump's? Or what does it say about Kasich who has only won one state? Or all the others who are technically still candidates but who have suspended their campaigns because they were consistently losing everywhere?

Again, nothing. One may posit all manners of things about those other candidates, but based on the premise you've offered, there's no basis for any of it.
 
if nobody gets a clear majority, then does not a plurality count for something?

It does count for something, but that "something" isn't necessarily the GOP's nomination for President of the U.S. Until that nomination is obtained by someone, it's rather hard to say for what the plurality you mention counts.

In the case of Trump, it's especially hard to say for what it may count because he's the one GOP candidate who has some degree of appeal to non-GOP registered voters. Just how much is anyone's guess as far as I'm concerned, but most folks know (hopefully) that the man has spent the majority of his adult life as a Democrat, and the idea that his time as such didn't affect his political stances is preposterous.

Indeed, for my part, I think the only reason he registered and has run as a Republican is because he saw the prospect of running against Mrs. Clinton as too daunting for in terms of actually knowing details and procedures related to elections and governance, she'd run rings around him; he's far too out of his depth to have engaged her from the get go in primary races. In contrast, Cruz is so extreme, Rubio so "new," and Bush so establishment, that he had a good chance of being able to hold his own against them. Unfortunately, for Trump at least, he didn't "brush up" on content/substance -- matters of governance or GOP electoral mechanics -- and "do his homework" in time and now that's biting him in the ass because all he's got to offer, even now, is political pablum, and complaints, and the primaries and electorate have moved to a deeper level.

That said, save for political junkies, the electorate hasn't overall become so demanding that they wouldn't still support Trump in the general election. The one thing he has going for him against Mrs. Clinton is that there are a lot of dolts and "knee jerk" voters who will choose him over Mrs. Clinton largely because he's entertaining, they don't know much about him other than what they saw/see on The Apprentice, and finding information about Trump that he may not care to have well or widely known isn't easy because he's been a private citizen for so long.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
-- Carl Sagan, Cosmos

Like it or not, that aphorism works in Trump's favor....And for the record, I don't like that it does, but I accept that it does and understand why it does.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election...

The folks who so conclude are loons because the majority that matters most is the majority of pledged delegates. One need not crack 50% in any GOP primary election to obtain the majority of GOP pledged delegates. That's just the way the GOP primary rules work. One ignores those rules, which are not new, to one's dismay, as Trump is finding out.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been much lower than Trump's?

Nothing, logically speaking. The premise is sophistic to begin with as noted above. What of merit is there to take/make from an invalid premise?

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been much lower than Trump's? Or what does it say about Kasich who has only won one state? Or all the others who are technically still candidates but who have suspended their campaigns because they were consistently losing everywhere?

Again, nothing. One may posit all manners of things about those other candidates, but based on the premise you've offered, there's no basis for any of it.

Again, alas, I think you completely missed the point that Dr. Sowell and I were making.
 
if nobody gets a clear majority, then does not a plurality count for something?

It does count for something, but that "something" isn't necessarily the GOP's nomination for President of the U.S. Until that nomination is obtained by someone, it's rather hard to say for what the plurality you mention counts.

In the case of Trump, it's especially hard to say for what it may count because he's the one GOP candidate who has some degree of appeal to non-GOP registered voters. Just how much is anyone's guess as far as I'm concerned, but most folks know (hopefully) that the man has spent the majority of his adult life as a Democrat, and the idea that his time as such didn't affect his political stances is preposterous.

Indeed, for my part, I think the only reason he registered and has run as a Republican is because he saw the prospect of running against Mrs. Clinton as too daunting for in terms of actually knowing details and procedures related to elections and governance, she'd run rings around him; he's far too out of his depth to have engaged her from the get go in primary races. In contrast, Cruz is so extreme, Rubio so "new," and Bush so establishment, that he had a good chance of being able to hold his own against them. Unfortunately, for Trump at least, he didn't "brush up" on content/substance -- matters of governance or GOP electoral mechanics -- and "do his homework" in time and now that's biting him in the ass because all he's got to offer, even now, is political pablum, and complaints, and the primaries and electorate have moved to a deeper level.

That said, save for political junkies, the electorate hasn't overall become so demanding that they wouldn't still support Trump in the general election. The one thing he has going for him against Mrs. Clinton is that there are a lot of dolts and "knee jerk" voters who will choose him over Mrs. Clinton largely because he's entertaining, they don't know much about him other than what they saw/see on The Apprentice, and finding information about Trump that he may not care to have well or widely known isn't easy because he's been a private citizen for so long.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
-- Carl Sagan, Cosmos

Like it or not, that aphorism works in Trump's favor....And for the record, I don't like that it does, but I accept that it does and understand why it does.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election...

The folks who so conclude are loons because the majority that matters most is the majority of pledged delegates. One need not crack 50% in any GOP primary election to obtain the majority of GOP pledged delegates. That's just the way the GOP primary rules work. One ignores those rules, which are not new, to one's dismay, as Trump is finding out.

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been much lower than Trump's?

Nothing, logically speaking. The premise is sophistic to begin with as noted above. What of merit is there to take/make from an invalid premise?

If we conclude that a majority of people don't want Trump because he has never cracked that 50% in any primary election, what does that say about Cruz who has won far fewer primaries and his percentages when he does win have been much lower than Trump's? Or what does it say about Kasich who has only won one state? Or all the others who are technically still candidates but who have suspended their campaigns because they were consistently losing everywhere?

Again, nothing. One may posit all manners of things about those other candidates, but based on the premise you've offered, there's no basis for any of it.

Again, alas, I think you completely missed the point that Dr. Sowell and I were making.

Actually, I think you've missed mine. Look at what remarks I commented on. You'll see that I only addressed the bits that are rationally flawed. Although I didn't say so before (why would I need to have?), I agree that "the people" have not spoken as goes wanting Trump to be the GOP nominee. My point is that while I think Mr. Sowell arrives at the correct conclusion based on the events he's observed, one of his premises for arriving at his conclusion are flawed.
  • Sowell writes: "Trump has never gotten a majority of the votes in any state. In other words, "the voice of the people" has been consistently against nominating Trump."

    The majority Trump needs to win the nomination is the majority of total delegates, and that can be obtained without winning a majority (50%+1 votes) in any single primary.
  • Sowell writes: "The illusion of Trump's overwhelming appeal to the Republican voters has been maintained by the fragmenting of Republican votes because so many candidates were running as conservatives that Trump won primaries without ever getting a majority of the votes."

    On this he's correct. We know he's correct because that's how "the math" has played out. We also know that in a field of choices as wide as that of the GOP race, it's mathematically possible to win the delegates needed to win the first vote nomination of the GOP. That it is is why one need not get 50% in any single GOP primary election.
However, because the premise in the first bullet is flawed, the answers/conclusions one gives to any questions that are based on that premise -- [Trump] has never cracked that 50% in any primary election -- are invalidly arrived at conclusions. My remarks earlier are nothing other than my recognizing the rational flaw in concluding anything "because [Trump] has never cracked that 50% in any primary election." That's why I wrote "nothing" where I did. Present a question that doesn't include that flaw and my answer will likely be different.

I didn't misunderstand anything you wrote. What you wrote/ask and what you wanted to ask may not be the same things, but how could I know that? Did you intend to include a flawed premise in your question and thereby force direct answers to that question to unavoidably incorporate that rational flaw? I suspect you didn't intend to do that, but do it you did, and I have no way to know what you actually intended.
 
You are citing rules. I am citing a concept. Two different things.

Sowell's concept is that more people have not voted for Trump than have voted for him. That is accurate. My concept is that using that logic, far more people do not want any other candidate than do those who don't want Trump.

We could go further to say that if you add up the votes and delegates for every Republican who is not Donald Trump, the delegates would exceed those currently awarded to Trump. And possibly there would be more votes for all the other candidates added together than have been cast for Trump. I haven't done the math on that.

So he is correct that more people do not want Donald Trump to be President than want Donald Trump to be President. I am correct that more people have voted for Donald Trump to be the nominee than have voted for any other single candidate.

But. . .

There is reason to think that if fewer candidates had been running in this primary season, that enough of the votes that went to other candidates would have instead have been case for Trump, that he could be over the 50% mark.

The rules of who will be the nominee are irrelevant to those concepts. And the question is what rules should guide the selection of the candidate?

If the convention is going to be decided by those attending the convention instead of by the people who vote, why have the people vote at all?
 
My concept is that using that logic, far more people do not want any other candidate than do those who don't want Trump.

So he is correct that more people do not want Donald Trump to be President than want Donald Trump to be President.

Well, if that's where you want to go, it'd be accurate to say "....more GOP primary voters..." not simply "...more people..."

Whether "more people" feel that way remains to be seen. As I wrote earlier, Trump seems more a Democrat than a Republican to me, even though he's running as a Republican. I doubt I'm the only person who feels that way, but I have no idea of how many others do. It may be that the Democrats and Independents who like Trump, plus the Republicans who do, constitute a majority of "the people." Democrat voters haven't yet been given the opportunity to weigh in officially on Trump and his candidacy. So, I don't know what "more people" think. Do you? Maybe Mr. Sowell does?

There is reason to think that if fewer candidates had been running in this primary season, that enough of the votes that went to other candidates would have instead have been case for Trump, that he could be over the 50% mark.

There is just as good a reason to think those very same votes may have gone to one of his GOP competitors. That there are multiple good reasons, and no evidence pointing one way or the other, is precisely why I see no basis for concluding anything based on either possibility.

Hypothesis contrary to fact
Causal fallacies (or of one is given to portmanteaus, "causalation" fallacies)

If the convention is going to be decided by the delegates at the convention instead of by the people who vote, why have the people vote at all?

Because ours is a representative not direct democracy.
 
In my opinion those who are able to vote and who choose not to vote deserve whomever they get for leaders. So they deserve no consideration at all in this discussion.

We don't elect the delegates or many others in power in the Republican party. So if our votes don't matter, and those at the convention will discard the votes and choose who they want to be the nominee, why have us vote at all? A terrible waste of time at a horrendous price.
 

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