The argument for chokeholds.

[Reverend_Hellh0und]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

can, its not guaranteed

 

[freyasman]

You guys are the experts. Fine. I give up. I will allow chokeholds. But in the interest of compromise, I expect something back.

If no injury etc occurs, the person choked out can not complain of police brutality. No charges may be filed against the officer. However, if there is damage, the charge is attempted murder on the cop. Fair enough? I mean, it is apparently so easy to put on someone, and almost impossible to actually injure the victim of the technique. So meet me half way. Oh, and if the suspect dies, the charge is murder. Meet me half way.

1. I don't believe in almost all cases cops should be permitted to initiate force on non violent crimes.
2. I believe that in order to be authorized to use such force including joint submissions and blood chokes you need to be at minimum a blue belt in jiu-jitsu.
3. All officers need bodycams and it should be a felony to turn it off or tamper with it.
4. If an officer uses force he needs to be prepared to be able to articulate the legal reasons he was authorized to do so.

Too many things are illegal; the cops have no choice but to confront people over petty shit, if they want to keep their jobs, especially with body cams. And once they iniate an arrest, they will kill you to affect that arrest, no matter what it was about. They take the money and they do the work.
The only other options they have are to quit their jobs..... and their families livlihood is more important to them than someone elses' opinion, or even some street mutt's life.
There is no law so trivial a cop won't kill you to enforce it.

Seems to me, that the answer is a lot more training, but also a lot less laws.

 

[freyasman]

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

He was an actor. bullshido master, never really took any shots. basically taught sped up Tai chi. movies were fun to watch but he was probably only twice as effective as steven segal.

So a trained fighter can't beat a larger opponent?

It depends; size is one factor, skill is another. If one person's skill is of a high enough level to outweigh another's size, then yeah.

Strategy is way more important most of the time anyway.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

can, its not guaranteed

Of course.

 

[pknopp]

You guys are the experts. Fine. I give up. I will allow chokeholds. But in the interest of compromise, I expect something back.

If no injury etc occurs, the person choked out can not complain of police brutality. No charges may be filed against the officer. However, if there is damage, the charge is attempted murder on the cop. Fair enough? I mean, it is apparently so easy to put on someone, and almost impossible to actually injure the victim of the technique. So meet me half way. Oh, and if the suspect dies, the charge is murder. Meet me half way.

1. I don't believe in almost all cases cops should be permitted to initiate force on non violent crimes.
2. I believe that in order to be authorized to use such force including joint submissions and blood chokes you need to be at minimum a blue belt in jiu-jitsu.
3. All officers need bodycams and it should be a felony to turn it off or tamper with it.
4. If an officer uses force he needs to be prepared to be able to articulate the legal reasons he was authorized to do so.

Too many things are illegal; the cops have no choice but to confront people over petty shit, if they want to keep their jobs, especially with body cams. And once they iniate an arrest, they will kill you to affect that arrest, no matter what it was about. They take the money and they do the work.
The only other options they have are to quit their jobs..... and their families livlihood is more important to them than someone elses' opinion, or even some street mutt's life.
There is no law so trivial a cop won't kill you to enforce it.

Seems to me, that the answer is a lot more training, but also a lot less laws.

I support BLM but this is it in a nut shell. There is nothing here I can disagree with.

 

[sakinago]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

Yeah cops aren’t trained though....that’s the point of the OP, and the title of the OP isn’t red herrings.

No, they are not. They have less training than a beautician.

So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I saw tailor a class for them and have them attend once every 2 weeks .

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

A number of our local guys are at the nearby Krav Maga school.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

Yeah cops aren’t trained though....that’s the point of the OP, and the title of the OP isn’t red herrings.

No, they are not. They have less training than a beautician.

So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I saw tailor a class for them and have them attend once every 2 weeks .

Are you going to be willing to pay for it?

 

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

Yeah cops aren’t trained though....that’s the point of the OP, and the title of the OP isn’t red herrings.

No, they are not. They have less training than a beautician.

So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I saw tailor a class for them and have them attend once every 2 weeks .

Are you going to be willing to pay for it?

We're already paying more for the lack of good training.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Vascular chokeholds (i.e. rear naked choke, guillotine) don’t cut off the airway or airflow. They can restrict airflow, if preformed awkwardly, but it takes a minute or 2 if depriving someone of air to render them unconscious/dead. Vascular chokeholds work by restricting blood flow to the brain (carotid artery), and render people unconscious in seconds. They are perfectly safe. Far safer than tasers, batons, knees on neck, etc. Only in extremely rare cases do they ever cause even moderate damage. I personally have been “choked” unconscious twice, both guillotines. If officers receive the proper training on these techniques, and I’m talking dozens of hours of training, it’s a fact that chokeholds are far safer policing techniques than using tasers or baton.

If you limit the tools of police to just tasers, batons, and pistols, their only option is to escalate a situation facing an unarmed man. If someone drugged up and belligerent is fighting them, the first way to take them out is hopefully a taser, which often aren’t enough depending on the persons size and intoxication. Let’s say it does work, you’ll have 200 lb men free falling to the ground, if that’s on concrete, you’re looking at serious damage if they land on their head. If it doesn’t work, the next option is to repeatedly bash them on the head repeatedly with a baton to render them unconscious. This is an extremely dangerous proposition.

Again, I’m talking vascular choke holds. No risk of damaging the hyoid bones. You’re not digging into the windpipe. You’re cutting off blood flow to the brain, the brain goes into restart mode like your laptop, and starts to boot back up as soon as the hold is released.

I've stopped 4-5 fights with yokes. I know how to do it.
Have known how since 8th grade.
It can work, but it's not something for all people to be doing.
Somebody might crush someone else's trachea or something if they don't know what they're doing.
I had somebody put it on me wrong, and I punched him right in the mouth.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

Yeah cops aren’t trained though....that’s the point of the OP, and the title of the OP isn’t red herrings.

No, they are not. They have less training than a beautician.

So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I saw tailor a class for them and have them attend once every 2 weeks .

Are you going to be willing to pay for it?

We're already paying more for the lack of good training.

We pay a lot. A good argument can be made that training is cheaper than multi-million dollar pay outs. I doubt anyone makes it.

 

[yidnar]

Not for long. We're seeing increased lawlessness. Whats about to unfold will be mind boggling.

We can understand that this country consists of more than "Wall Street" or millions of us will be OK with increased lawlessness.

Up to people like yourself.

understand that we are not going to surrender this great country to a violent mob of idiot marxist.

 

[Reverend_Hellh0und]

A number of our local guys are at the nearby Krav Maga school.

meh

 

[pknopp]

Not for long. We're seeing increased lawlessness. Whats about to unfold will be mind boggling.

We can understand that this country consists of more than "Wall Street" or millions of us will be OK with increased lawlessness.

Up to people like yourself.

understand that we are not going to surrender this great country to a violent mob of idiot marxist.

So police officers aren't getting arrested for what they once got away with?

 

[Unkotare]

...So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I...

Not sure BJJ is the best choice for law enforcement, particularly in the current climate.

 

[Reverend_Hellh0und]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

I thought we were discussing training police officers? If that is what we are discussing "comparable training" generally isn't in it the picture.

You’re the one who cited a movie star in choreographed fighting scenes as evidence of someone smaller being able to take on bigger people.

And you disagree without adding qualifiers?

Disagree with what? That fact that Bruce lee would beat most fighters in all other weight classes IRL?

I'm not interested in you adding qualifications to make your argument.

I don’t even know which arguments you’re talking about. You’re basically telling me to make an argument without being able to point out that the events in Enter the Dragon didn’t really happen. You might as well be arguing that Capitan marvel is the strongest avenger, but I’m not allowed to point out that the avengers aren’t real. No qualifiers? You’re basically saying I can’t be specific in language and reflect reality in my arguments...um ok....maybe USMB isn’t you’re best outlet. Maybe you should just stick to twitter.

We have an experiment where we can truly test what in martial arts works, and what doesn’t work. That’s the UFC. The UFC has weight classes for a reason. Fighters get very pissed when their opponents miss weight by even a couple lbs because it’s that much of an advantage. And these days everyone needs to know BJJ, at least if they want to win.

My argument was already acknowledged. A trained smaller person can beat a larger person who is not.

Yeah cops aren’t trained though....that’s the point of the OP, and the title of the OP isn’t red herrings.

No, they are not. They have less training than a beautician.

So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I saw tailor a class for them and have them attend once every 2 weeks .

Are you going to be willing to pay for it?

no. Cost if wanting to be a cop

 

[Reverend_Hellh0und]

...So why is your solution to limit their tools, defund them, and leave them even more nervous and trigger happy. The answer is obviously they need more training. Especially in hand to hand. And BJJ is a great place to start. I...

Not sure BJJ is the best choice for law enforcement, particularly in the current climate.

Why not?I argue its the most prudent choice

 

[yidnar]

Not for long. We're seeing increased lawlessness. Whats about to unfold will be mind boggling.

We can understand that this country consists of more than "Wall Street" or millions of us will be OK with increased lawlessness.

Up to people like yourself.

understand that we are not going to surrender this great country to a violent mob of idiot marxist.

So police officers aren't getting arrested for what they once got away with?

if thats true why are yall rioting ?

 

[pknopp]

Not for long. We're seeing increased lawlessness. Whats about to unfold will be mind boggling.

We can understand that this country consists of more than "Wall Street" or millions of us will be OK with increased lawlessness.

Up to people like yourself.

understand that we are not going to surrender this great country to a violent mob of idiot marxist.

So police officers aren't getting arrested for what they once got away with?

if thats true why are yall rioting ?

Who has been held responsible for the murder of Breonna Taylor?

 

[yidnar]

Not for long. We're seeing increased lawlessness. Whats about to unfold will be mind boggling.

We can understand that this country consists of more than "Wall Street" or millions of us will be OK with increased lawlessness.

Up to people like yourself.

understand that we are not going to surrender this great country to a violent mob of idiot marxist.

So police officers aren't getting arrested for what they once got away with?

if thats true why are yall rioting ?

Who has been held responsible for the murder of Breonna Taylor?

Terrible incident indeed ..... hopefully justice will happen ! over twice as many whites are killed by police than police kill blacks ! we all agree that there are bad cops ...but what we dont agree on is the racist lie that cops are purposefully targeting blacks to kill .... the biggest killer of black men below the age of 45 is other black criminals....not accidents not disease but another black ! they are the only race with this stat ! and since the so called racist police have pulled back the murder rates in the black inner city have skyrocketed in some cases doubled and tripled ! black idiots are slaughtering each other !