The argument for chokeholds.

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

I think by statistics female cops are more likely to escalate. Which makes sense. A 5-6 140 lb woman come across a 6ft 200 lb belligerent man and their job is to get that guy under control. I think women should be on the force, but they have to be paired with a very capable partner.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

No it’s a trait of being 5-6 150 lbs female and your job is to take control of a 6 ft 215 lb meth head.

Females instigate violence more than males do, period.
Look into domestic violence cases, the women almost always hit first, they just don't do any damage, and then they get the shit beaten out of them.

 

[Reverend_Hellh0und]

Anyone who has ever used one is devoid of human worth. And not just cops.

what if one used one to stop a rape or something? Them too?

I don't see that happening. Only worthless cowards use them.

really what do non cowards use?

ever take a Jits class? You should come by, first lesson is free.

Look, if you guys want to use them in your mandingo fighting, and it's only between consenting adults, literally knock yourselves out. But I don't swing that way, so thanks but no thanks.

the fact you think its a gay activity says more about your own sexual insecurity than anyone else's.


talking shit online about people who train to fight seems a bitch move. **shrug**

I didn't say anything about it being sexual. hmmm

mandingo, swing that way, etc you arent clever.

"Mandingo" was just racializing your behavior. Not sexualizing it. I know. Not funny if I have to explain it. My bad.

Urban Dictionary: Mandingo

Referring to one's penis. Usually large in size. Used primarily as a slang term.

www.google.com

you prolly should know what words mean before you look like a racist ass. Jus sayin

That isn't the historical meaning. I think you know that.

It’s ok, I support and respect your lifestyle choices. They aren’t mine but you do you man.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

 

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

No, but often, it is.

 

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

 

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

 

[sakinago]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

I want females to follow their dream and become cops. What I don’t want to see is any of those female cops, or any female for that matter, put into a situation where they have to take on the 6ft 215 lb meth head. At least not on their own. Are there some females up to the task? Very few. BTW BJJ would be a great help to women in this matter. Like I said before, they don’t have to be stronger than the assailants, they only have to be stronger than their shoulders in a direction that it’s not accustomed to being. Which is a pretty low bar, one that most women can easily surpass with a little training.

 

[SavannahMann]

You guys are the experts. Fine. I give up. I will allow chokeholds. But in the interest of compromise, I expect something back.

If no injury etc occurs, the person choked out can not complain of police brutality. No charges may be filed against the officer. However, if there is damage, the charge is attempted murder on the cop. Fair enough? I mean, it is apparently so easy to put on someone, and almost impossible to actually injure the victim of the technique. So meet me half way. Oh, and if the suspect dies, the charge is murder. Meet me half way.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

 

[Unkotare]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

And was in very few real fights that can be verified.

 

[Unkotare]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

I want females to follow their dream and become cops. What I don’t want to see is any of those female cops, or any female for that matter, put into a situation where they have to take on the 6ft 215 lb meth head. At least not on their own. Are there some females up to the task? Very few. BTW BJJ would be a great help to women in this matter. Like I said before, they don’t have to be stronger than the assailants, they only have to be stronger than their shoulders in a direction that it’s not accustomed to being. Which is a pretty low bar, one that most women can easily surpass with a little training.

It’s not that simple.

 

[pknopp]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

And was in very few real fights that can be verified.

That would be the goal, no?

 

[freyasman]

You guys are the experts. Fine. I give up. I will allow chokeholds. But in the interest of compromise, I expect something back.

If no injury etc occurs, the person choked out can not complain of police brutality. No charges may be filed against the officer. However, if there is damage, the charge is attempted murder on the cop. Fair enough? I mean, it is apparently so easy to put on someone, and almost impossible to actually injure the victim of the technique. So meet me half way. Oh, and if the suspect dies, the charge is murder. Meet me half way.

If someone dies in custody, the officers should get slammed.... they are responsible for their prisoners.

 

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

And what's his fight record like?

Btw, Gene LeBell used to ball his little ass up whenever he felt like it.

 

[sakinago]

You guys are the experts. Fine. I give up. I will allow chokeholds. But in the interest of compromise, I expect something back.

If no injury etc occurs, the person choked out can not complain of police brutality. No charges may be filed against the officer. However, if there is damage, the charge is attempted murder on the cop. Fair enough? I mean, it is apparently so easy to put on someone, and almost impossible to actually injure the victim of the technique. So meet me half way. Oh, and if the suspect dies, the charge is murder. Meet me half way.

Why would we meet you halfway? Congress isn’t watching this thread and deciding based on our decision. Is the charge attempt of murder when cops tase someone and they bash their head on the ground? Define damage. Permanent damage? Plenty of people who’ve been in jiujitsu long enough wind up developing neck or shoulder problems. Some even need surgery. But the same is true of basically anyone in any sport long enough. Same is true of people in moderately physically demanding jobs long enough. My only standard is that what I’m proposing is safer than tasers or batons. That it’s stupid to limit the non-lethal tools that cops are allowed to use. That it’s also stupid not to teach them a very effective and safe martial art. One they could train going full force and full speed and not really have to worry about concussions or injuries. Most people aren’t comfortable in physical altercations. Most people panic. When they don’t panic they’re usually throwing wild and off balance haymakers. BJJ would help cops get comfortable and know their limits and capabilities, as well as what they need to do in an altercation. It would be safer for both cops and the public if cops are more comfortable in their abilities and don’t reach for their guns when they don’t need too, as well as be able to stop a situation, like the Brooks case, dead in its tracks before it escalated to that.

 

[sakinago]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

 

[freyasman]

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female cops just shooting people.

When tools are abused they get taken away. You can argue all day for this but it's going to end and those who refuse to abide by the rules will get arrested themselves.

No one is going to risk their own life to keep a thug safe. You disarm the police, there will be none.

When the police are the thugs you disarm them.

So you’re saying hypothetically that if you were fighting with police, you’d rather have them use a taser or baton to subdue you? Or do you just want to take “tools” away from police? That’s stupid, because now they have no choice but to escalate with a baton or taser, both are much more dangerous than these vascular chokes?

If they abuse their taser and batons you take those also.

So then they just have their guns...great thinking. Let’s make cops more nervous and make them feel completely defenseless outside of their firearm. That’s gonna be great for the paranoid schizophrenics when they harass store employees because they think the store is part of a government cabal, and get the cops called on them. Then the cops come out, which confirms to the paranoid schizo paranoia, and he fights the cops with every ounce of his being because that what he truly believes he has to do to survive. Now what are the cops supposed to do. They can’t leave him in the store. Cops can’t engage him either unless you think it’s ok for the cops to start throwing fists. I most certainly wouldn’t prefer that.

Easy. Start speaking up and demanding actions when the police abuse the tools that are gave them.

That’s happening dumbshit. Turn on the fucking news. What are the alternatives? You’re giving meaningless platitudes, not solutions. Brooks would still be alive had cops been trained in the manner I set about in the OP. But no, we have to put all chokeholds under an umbrella as “bad”. It’s utterly nonsensical. The left just wants to have anger sessions like in 1984. Their solution is to do a naked shame march game of thrones style.

I see only one person angry in this conversation and that is you.

I disagree.
I am very hard on cops when they get an attitude or abuse their power but having less capable cops is in no one's best interest. For decades we didn't want females on the force because we knew they would end up shooting people (when a guy would just slam him down and cuff him) because they couldn't handle him physically.
I want a society that has strong physically capable cops, I just don't want hardly anything to be illegal in that society, personally.

I don't see female police officers just shooting people. That appears to be done overwhelmingly by male officers.

It happens.

Obviously it's a trait of being a cop, not a trait of being female.

One of the toughest soldiers I ever knew was a female. But she was still smaller and weaker than most men.
The people whose job it is to sometimes physically subdue other people should not be. I've seen some scrawny little male cops too, and the last one I saw was definitely a serious handgunner; I could tell from his gear and his rig and how he carried it. That guy knows he is more likely to have to shoot.

Brawn isn't always the answer.

But when it is, social skills won't substitute.

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and it's all a negotiation.

Took three men to get George Floyd down after dragging him out of their cruiser.

Right...... how many females (or males) half their size would it have taken?

They may not have drug him out of the cruiser once he was in it.

Dude, who cares?

Physics is physics..... good big people beat good smaller people all day, every day. If you're in a job where violence is integral to the paycheck, you need to be bigger and stronger than most, period.

Bruce Lee wasn't so big.

I love enter the dragon as much as the next guy. But could Lee actually beat a guy whose a couple weight classes higher than him with comparable training, probably not. Bruce’s Lees legend gets inflated a bit. I’m not saying Lee wasn’t good, just that we only saw him beat up roided out gorillas bigger than him when it was choreographed.

Lee's big contribution was cross training; few were doing it at the time and none of them were famous like him.

A lot of people play chess but very few are masters. Hardly anyone fights but everyone THINKS they are masters.