the Book of Mormon

[Luddly Neddite]

Would I read it again? No. Any story that you have read once, especially fiction, is not really worth reading again.

I disagree; much of the best literature is well worth revisiting, especially after the passing of years. My experience of, say, The Great Gatsby at age 14 when first assigned it in high school was very different, and much less rich, than my experience of it years later in a college seminar and yet again two decades further on when I'd lived enough of life to really *know* the themes in a way a teenager simply couldn't.

I'll agree that there is plenty of fiction out there that only deserves one reading - stuff I call 'brain candy', clever and entertaining but not literature worthy of careful consideration.

There are many fine books I'd read over and over if I had the time. Thomas Mann, himself a great writer, famously read Don Quixote once a year.



I read some but not all of the Book of Mormon as a teenager attending the local ward with a friend. Not the worst written religious book, but having been raised a Christian, I found the whole concept of another gospel very alien. While I loved a lot about the day to day workings of the Mormon community, the more I read about the church and its practices the less I wanted to be involved.

It was many more years before I realized the truth that the religion I'd been raised in and the book upon which it is based was no more or less valid, just much older.

I believe in the visionary socialist Jew called Jesus of Nazareth, and in the moral precepts he taught. My bible is the Jefferson Bible.

Your last paragraph is very close to my own beliefs.

I don't believe in a magical, invisible creature who raped a young, unmarried virgin, left her pregnant for an itinerant carpenter to raise, then came back and killed his son in order to save the rest of humanity for all time but then threw a tantrum because he had screwed up and flooded the world, killing all of the people he created and leaving the future of the world in the hands of a drunk who then built an enormous boat, loaded up 2 of every .................

Jesus may not have really lived. Its likely that he is a composite of several prophet/teachers but, ultimately, I don't think that matters near as much as what he taught.

I believe we do have some responsibility for other human beings. We should not walk away from those in need.

I also believe that organized religion is a scam. The bible, book of mormon have nothing more to say to me. Neither god nor Jesus were christians and neither am I.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's the only Book I know of that encourages people not to just accept it because they say it's from God, but to go to Him to find out if it is. Not even the Bible does this,

He who has received my commandment and obeys them--he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Thank you hobelim .

I read that just the other day in "John" to get ready for Lent.

You have once again revealed how brainwashed Avatar4321 really is.

He just does not know it. This is called a "blindspot". He has a huge blindspot.

The problem is that the Mormons spend a lot of wasted time on their Book of Morm and thus do not become as familiar with the Bible. Plus they go thru orchestrated brainwashing sessions which is indicative of cult behavior.

Anyway thanks again.

Don't mention it!

I do agree about that blind spot, a cause for stumbling, but it seems that most people have at least one.


I'm sure that's what Jesus meant when he said that he would send out his angels out over all the earth to remove everything that causes men to stumble, whenever he returns that is......

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

Disguise? He was wearing what people wore at that time. Its very likely he worshiped the gods that were "in" at that time.

If Jesus were ever to reappear, most christians would tell him to take a bath, cut his hair and get a job.

Like the book of mormon, the bible and the others are all fiction and copied from other religions. Jesus is not coming back any more than he came back to life after being dead for three days.

 

[yiostheoy]

It's the only Book I know of that encourages people not to just accept it because they say it's from God, but to go to Him to find out if it is. Not even the Bible does this,

He who has received my commandment and obeys them--he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Thank you hobelim .

I read that just the other day in "John" to get ready for Lent.

You have once again revealed how brainwashed Avatar4321 really is.

He just does not know it. This is called a "blindspot". He has a huge blindspot.

The problem is that the Mormons spend a lot of wasted time on their Book of Morm and thus do not become as familiar with the Bible. Plus they go thru orchestrated brainwashing sessions which is indicative of cult behavior.

Anyway thanks again.

Don't mention it!

I do agree about that blind spot, a cause for stumbling, but it seems that most people have at least one.


I'm sure that's what Jesus meant when he said that he would send out his angels out over all the earth to remove everything that causes men to stumble, whenever he returns that is......

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

If there was anything magical about 2000 years Jesus would already be here, yes.

And there was nothing magical about 1000 years (1033 A.D.) either.

Maybe 3000 will be different -- I don't know.

By then our bones will be dust.

 

[BoSoxGal]

If Jesus dropped into Times Square with a microphone/speakers and started giving the Sermon on the Mount, the 'Christian' religious right would condemn him as an America-hating libtard.

 

[Mudda]

If Jesus dropped into Times Square with a microphone/speakers and started giving the Sermon on the Mount, the 'Christian' religious right would condemn him as an America-hating libtard.

A broke brown immigrant like Jesus was would never get in in the first place. Hopefully.

 

[hobelim]

He who has received my commandment and obeys them--he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Thank you hobelim .

I read that just the other day in "John" to get ready for Lent.

You have once again revealed how brainwashed Avatar4321 really is.

He just does not know it. This is called a "blindspot". He has a huge blindspot.

The problem is that the Mormons spend a lot of wasted time on their Book of Morm and thus do not become as familiar with the Bible. Plus they go thru orchestrated brainwashing sessions which is indicative of cult behavior.

Anyway thanks again.

Don't mention it!

I do agree about that blind spot, a cause for stumbling, but it seems that most people have at least one.


I'm sure that's what Jesus meant when he said that he would send out his angels out over all the earth to remove everything that causes men to stumble, whenever he returns that is......

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

If there was anything magical about 2000 years Jesus would already be here, yes.

And there was nothing magical about 1000 years (1033 A.D.) either.

Maybe 3000 will be different -- I don't know.

By then our bones will be dust.

There will never be a time when bones will become anything else, except maybe jewelry.


About when, who can say? I suppose whenever he does appear it will be impossible to ignore, but I'm sure it will not be what people expect, just like the first time...

What you said in a previous post about some pattern repeated every several thousand years made me wonder how far another intelligence would have to be for it to be possible for them to travel back and forth in that amount of time.

Speaking of time, do not be dismayed. Even if he doesn't appear until the year 3500, you can still learn and receive the eternal life promised before you die if you could only persist in your efforts to discern his existing teachings and understand the hard learned lessons from our ancestors in the past preserved and compelled into the future through these stories..

 

[BreezeWood]

.
from the 1st century, the final Judgement will occur when all who are alive have Triumphed the same and with the death of the last person that has not. the Judgement being of which prevailed, Good vs Evil - for all of humanity.

 

[ding]

Thank you hobelim .

I read that just the other day in "John" to get ready for Lent.

You have once again revealed how brainwashed Avatar4321 really is.

He just does not know it. This is called a "blindspot". He has a huge blindspot.

The problem is that the Mormons spend a lot of wasted time on their Book of Morm and thus do not become as familiar with the Bible. Plus they go thru orchestrated brainwashing sessions which is indicative of cult behavior.

Anyway thanks again.

Don't mention it!

I do agree about that blind spot, a cause for stumbling, but it seems that most people have at least one.


I'm sure that's what Jesus meant when he said that he would send out his angels out over all the earth to remove everything that causes men to stumble, whenever he returns that is......

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

If there was anything magical about 2000 years Jesus would already be here, yes.

And there was nothing magical about 1000 years (1033 A.D.) either.

Maybe 3000 will be different -- I don't know.

By then our bones will be dust.

There will never be a time when bones will become anything else, except maybe jewelry.


About when, who can say? I suppose whenever he does appear it will be impossible to ignore, but I'm sure it will not be what people expect, just like the first time...

What you said in a previous post about some pattern repeated every several thousand years made me wonder how far another intelligence would have to be for it to be possible for them to travel back and forth in that amount of time.

Speaking of time, do not be dismayed. Even if he doesn't appear until the year 3500, you can still learn and receive the eternal life promised before you die if you could only persist in your efforts to discern his existing teachings and understand the hard learned lessons from our ancestors in the past preserved and compelled into the future through these stories..

Maybe you could share them with us instead of just bullshitting about them. That would be a nice change.

 

[yiostheoy]

Thank you hobelim .

I read that just the other day in "John" to get ready for Lent.

You have once again revealed how brainwashed Avatar4321 really is.

He just does not know it. This is called a "blindspot". He has a huge blindspot.

The problem is that the Mormons spend a lot of wasted time on their Book of Morm and thus do not become as familiar with the Bible. Plus they go thru orchestrated brainwashing sessions which is indicative of cult behavior.

Anyway thanks again.

Don't mention it!

I do agree about that blind spot, a cause for stumbling, but it seems that most people have at least one.


I'm sure that's what Jesus meant when he said that he would send out his angels out over all the earth to remove everything that causes men to stumble, whenever he returns that is......

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

If there was anything magical about 2000 years Jesus would already be here, yes.

And there was nothing magical about 1000 years (1033 A.D.) either.

Maybe 3000 will be different -- I don't know.

By then our bones will be dust.

There will never be a time when bones will become anything else, except maybe jewelry.


About when, who can say? I suppose whenever he does appear it will be impossible to ignore, but I'm sure it will not be what people expect, just like the first time...

What you said in a previous post about some pattern repeated every several thousand years made me wonder how far another intelligence would have to be for it to be possible for them to travel back and forth in that amount of time.

Speaking of time, do not be dismayed. Even if he doesn't appear until the year 3500, you can still learn and receive the eternal life promised before you die if you could only persist in your efforts to discern his existing teachings and understand the hard learned lessons from our ancestors in the past preserved and compelled into the future through these stories..

So lets presume for the sake of philosophical inquiry that Jesus went back home to the Center of the Galaxy where his Dad lives after he left Bethel back in 33 A.D.

And that his Grandfather lives in the Center of the Andromeda Galaxy next door.

So then your question becomes (1) how long does it take God(s) to shoot between galaxies and (2) how fast do they travel ??

The obvious philosophical answer is that since They already did it several times before, it probably does not take them any time at all.

Ergo time does not exist.

And the speed of light is an Einsteinian fallacy.

Q.E.D.

 

[hobelim]

Don't mention it!

I do agree about that blind spot, a cause for stumbling, but it seems that most people have at least one.


I'm sure that's what Jesus meant when he said that he would send out his angels out over all the earth to remove everything that causes men to stumble, whenever he returns that is......

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

If there was anything magical about 2000 years Jesus would already be here, yes.

And there was nothing magical about 1000 years (1033 A.D.) either.

Maybe 3000 will be different -- I don't know.

By then our bones will be dust.

There will never be a time when bones will become anything else, except maybe jewelry.


About when, who can say? I suppose whenever he does appear it will be impossible to ignore, but I'm sure it will not be what people expect, just like the first time...

What you said in a previous post about some pattern repeated every several thousand years made me wonder how far another intelligence would have to be for it to be possible for them to travel back and forth in that amount of time.

Speaking of time, do not be dismayed. Even if he doesn't appear until the year 3500, you can still learn and receive the eternal life promised before you die if you could only persist in your efforts to discern his existing teachings and understand the hard learned lessons from our ancestors in the past preserved and compelled into the future through these stories..

Maybe you could share them with us instead of just bullshitting about them. That would be a nice change.

Maybe I should share them with "us"? Ugh. I have already openly done that. Still the truth has not established a root in "you"..

If you want to know why "you" still cannot retain information, why the truth strikes no root in "you"' it is because at the center of "your" soul where an individual identity should be there sits a spiritual parasite, a self-negating malevolent multiplicity that exposes itself willy nilly by consistently referring to itself as "us"

Now are you beginning to see the urgency of purifying your own mind? Why when I say something you act like you heard nothing at all as if nobody was home or you were tied up, blindfolded and gagged, stuck in the trunk of your own shiny new car, hijacked by a legion of noisy monkeys driving you around in circles in the middle of a demolition derby?

And you think that I'm insane, do you...


It could be that you have spent too much time on Pleasure Island, Alexander, and those donkey ears are there to stay..

 

[ding]

Jesus is somewhat overdue, I think.

The early Christian Church expected him sometime around 100 A.D.

The Mormons expected him sometime around 1890 at the latest.

In 2033 it will have been 2000 years. That will probably be the next doomsday date -- in 16 more years.

My own guess is around 3000 A.D. since we know history goes back at least to 3000 B.C. with the Egyptians. And we know Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod The Great who died in 5 BCE. So I would expect his birth to be half way into the history of humankind. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

At any rate the early Christians and the Mormons where both wrong with their own early expectations.

Hmm, If he was going to show up after 2000 years, he is already walking among us.

At any given time there could be many adepts walking around unnoticed and you would never know it unless they made themselves known to you..

Seriously, if you were around when Jesus appeared the first time, wearing that disturbing disguise, would you have been able to tell the difference between what he was saying and what a mentally ill person might say?


Btw, I heard that doomsday would be something that only the doomed would fear...

The faithful would be holding their heads high, looking forward to their redemption and life in the new age.

If there was anything magical about 2000 years Jesus would already be here, yes.

And there was nothing magical about 1000 years (1033 A.D.) either.

Maybe 3000 will be different -- I don't know.

By then our bones will be dust.

There will never be a time when bones will become anything else, except maybe jewelry.


About when, who can say? I suppose whenever he does appear it will be impossible to ignore, but I'm sure it will not be what people expect, just like the first time...

What you said in a previous post about some pattern repeated every several thousand years made me wonder how far another intelligence would have to be for it to be possible for them to travel back and forth in that amount of time.

Speaking of time, do not be dismayed. Even if he doesn't appear until the year 3500, you can still learn and receive the eternal life promised before you die if you could only persist in your efforts to discern his existing teachings and understand the hard learned lessons from our ancestors in the past preserved and compelled into the future through these stories..

Maybe you could share them with us instead of just bullshitting about them. That would be a nice change.

Maybe I should share them with "us"? Ugh. I have already openly done that. Still the truth has not established a root in "you"..

If you want to know why "you" still cannot retain information, why the truth strikes no root in "you"' it is because at the center of "your" soul where an individual identity should be there sits a spiritual parasite, a self-negating malevolent multiplicity that exposes itself willy nilly by consistently referring to itself as "us"

Now are you beginning to see the urgency of purifying your own mind? Why when I say something you act like you heard nothing at all as if nobody was home or you were tied up, blindfolded and gagged, stuck in the trunk of your own shiny new car, hijacked by a legion of noisy monkeys driving you around in circles in the middle of a demolition derby?

And you think that I'm insane, do you...


It could be that you have spent too much time on Pleasure Island, Alexander, and those donkey ears are there to stay..

No. You haven't. For instance you spoke of living many lives but when pressed you implied you were speaking symbolically. You speak of eternal life, yet you never say what that means. You play games and attack Christians. That's what you do. Even now you cannot control yourself when responding to me. You believe that you are better than others. I believe you are insane. What are you going to do about it? Call me more names, lol.

 

[onefour1]

I firmly believe the Bible is inspired by GOD and is historically accurate. GOD revealed the truth to Moses--- who had no need of a messed up pagan version of the historic event.

The book of Mormon I find to be a contrived plagiarized distortion of the Bible. It is a stylized stereotypical early 19th century religious novel. Much like The Last Days of Pompeii, Ben Hur, etc. This particular item was the handiwork of a lost soul seeking to make a place for himself among the religious fervor of that period. Doubtless he has misguided many and has done nothing to spread the Gospel of the Messiah..

Agreed.

And "his" name was "Sidney Rigdon."

Sidney Rigdon - Wikipedia

The problem with the Rigdon theory is that he never heard about the church until September of 1830. The Book of Mormon was published in March of 1830 and the church was established in April of 1830. He was converted by reading the Book of Mormon.

 

[onefour1]

It is my belief that the true church of Jesus Christ fell into a state of apostasy after the martyrdoms of the Apostles of Jesus. And for a time, times, and the dividing of time did the church go into the wilderness. But in 1820, the Lord parted the heavens and spoke to a 14 year old boy and began to restore his church in these latter-days for the last time. It is my witness to you that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that through him the Lord restored the true church upon the face of the earth. The Book of Mormon is a second witness with the Bible that God lives and Jesus is the Christ. It is only through repentance and being baptized into the true church of God that mankind can be saved into the kingdom of heaven. I leave you the words of the Prophet Nephi of the Book of Mormon:


2 Nephi 31:4-21
4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world.

5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!

6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water?

7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments.

8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.

9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them.

10 And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father?

11 And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.

12 And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.

15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I think I'll wait until the Cliff Notes version comes out.

 

[yiostheoy]

I think I'll wait until the Cliff Notes version comes out.

The Quran is actually even more boring -- the most boring book on the planet. One long meaningless rant against Jews and Christians and Arab folk religions.

 

[yiostheoy]

It is my belief that the true church of Jesus Christ fell into a state of apostasy after the martyrdoms of the Apostles of Jesus. And for a time, times, and the dividing of time did the church go into the wilderness. But in 1820, the Lord parted the heavens and spoke to a 14 year old boy and began to restore his church in these latter-days for the last time. It is my witness to you that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that through him the Lord restored the true church upon the face of the earth. The Book of Mormon is a second witness with the Bible that God lives and Jesus is the Christ. It is only through repentance and being baptized into the true church of God that mankind can be saved into the kingdom of heaven. I leave you the words of the Prophet Nephi of the Book of Mormon:


2 Nephi 31:4-21
4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world.

5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!

6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water?

7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments.

8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.

9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them.

10 And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father?

11 And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.

12 And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.

15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

That's part of the Mormon brainwashing program.

But then they completely disregard their own falling away from their own early principles, and also the ordeal with polygamy which became an abomination really fast.

Brigham Young deserves great credit for leading the exodus to the Great Salt Lake valley, but he lost control by the time of the Mountain Meadows massacre.

Since BY the church has become fanatical about prohibition, coffee and tea of all things, and the state of Utah does not criminalize bigamy. And they rape their members of their funds with their radical tithing rule.

Lowest crime rates of any location however, that's a good thing.

 

[yiostheoy]

I firmly believe the Bible is inspired by GOD and is historically accurate. GOD revealed the truth to Moses--- who had no need of a messed up pagan version of the historic event.

The book of Mormon I find to be a contrived plagiarized distortion of the Bible. It is a stylized stereotypical early 19th century religious novel. Much like The Last Days of Pompeii, Ben Hur, etc. This particular item was the handiwork of a lost soul seeking to make a place for himself among the religious fervor of that period. Doubtless he has misguided many and has done nothing to spread the Gospel of the Messiah..

Agreed.

And "his" name was "Sidney Rigdon."

Sidney Rigdon - Wikipedia

The problem with the Rigdon theory is that he never heard about the church until September of 1830. The Book of Mormon was published in March of 1830 and the church was established in April of 1830. He was converted by reading the Book of Mormon.

The other possible author is Oliver Cowdery. He was a school teacher and well educated. But he was not a minister and we don't know if he did any militia duty ever. It's really hard to say who wrote it. Most commentators say it was probably Rigdon, although the church history pushes him back past the publication date. Aside from the usual narrative about Rigdon, I would need to research if I could find any early documents that show where Rigdon was and when.

 

[presonorek]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

I will read it.

 

[presonorek]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

I've never really like reading Science Fiction..

There is no science in their fiction.

Sailing ships around 600 BC were barely able to ply the Mediterranean and coastal Spain. They were longboats called galleys used by the Greeks and later the Vikings.

There is no way one of these 7th Century BC boats could ply the Atlantic, Indian, or Pacific Ocean(s) and make it all the way to South America. So the boat trip is out of the question.

Even Columbus with his Spanish caravels needed 3 ships to carry enough supplies to get his crews all the way to the Caribbean from Spain. 3 not 1. You need to bring fresh water, salted meats, dried fruits, dried bread called hardtack, etc. You need 3 ships at a minimum, not 1.

The writer of the Bk. of Morm. did not know jack sh!t about sailing or sea travel.

Ever heard of Noah's ark?

really?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

What's the challenge?