The Cosmological Arguments for God's Existence

[BreezeWood]

How old do you believe the atoms in your body are?

The atoms have been in his body for about 7 years, but the atoms themselves are about 6 billion years old, formed from lighter elements in a Generation 2 star that Supernovaed and deposited the carbon into our solar system as it formed about 5 billion years ago.

The hydrogen atoms of the universe are about 12 billion years old depending on which estimate you choose. At 61 years old, I prefer YOUNGER estimates.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

the elements of the periodic chart were the first life forms in the universe -

the compounds became the initial steps to the creation of physiology, by means found in the metaphysical forces used necessary for all beings that exist.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone. Would you put complete trust in something or someone without good reason?

Without good reason...break that down for me.

Do you believe in God?

If so, do you believe you have a good reason to believe in God?

If you have faith, then why do you need to empirically prove the existence of a god?
If you have faith then...god exists because you believe she does.

Because faith and reason are inseparable sisters. It would make no sense to continue to have faith in something or someone for no good reason.

.

Because faith and reason are inseparable sisters. It would make no sense to continue to have faith in something or someone for no good reason.

the same to you, fath without fruition is meaningless, your book - triumph is what is judged nothing else. an uphill battle - the apex of knowledge is purity without sin, turn the knob when you get there. the 4th century's fabrications serve no one.

It’s a good thing we will be judged by our fruit rather than by the book we read.

 

[ding]

How old do you believe the atoms in your body are?

The atoms have been in his body for about 7 years, but the atoms themselves are about 6 billion years old, formed from lighter elements in a Generation 2 star that Supernovaed and deposited the carbon into our solar system as it formed about 5 billion years ago.

The hydrogen atoms of the universe are about 12 billion years old depending on which estimate you choose. At 61 years old, I prefer YOUNGER estimates.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

the elements of the periodic chart were the first life forms in the universe -

View attachment 279534

the compounds became the initial steps to the creation of physiology, by means found in the metaphysical forces used necessary for all beings that exist.

No. Actually the first form of energy were subatomic particles.

 

[ding]

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

I was listening to a woman caller regarding emotional distress she faced when realizing that Religion was a crock of shit.

She said she had felt so empty at first, and that was because she thought she lost purpose...thought that, since her Religion was untrue, there's just no purpose to living.

Then her and the host shared stories of realizing that life was more invigorating once it dawned on them that they're free to decide their own purpose. The simple realization released some gigantic burden off of their shoulders...and made them happy, and focused.

Freedom is beautiful, like that. When I decided my purpose, everything started to click for me as well and its been fulfilling ever since, I really have to say.

If that were true you wouldn’t need to validate your beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others.

 

[james bond]

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations say otherwise.

The redshift supports the Bible in that God stretches out the heavens like a tent. CMB supports creationist cosmologies. -- Recent Cosmic Microwave Background data supports creationist cosmologies - creation.com. The rest support a young earth, too. You should read Moshe Carmeli and John Hartnett.

Moshe Carmeli - Conservapedia

John Hartnett - Conservapedia

In fact, Fort Fun Indiana got me to read and use creation.com more because he kept claiming that was my source. God works in mysterious ways.

Dark matter unknown god Carmelian - creation.com

 

[G.T.]

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..
There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

I was listening to a woman caller regarding emotional distress she faced when realizing that Religion was a crock of shit.

She said she had felt so empty at first, and that was because she thought she lost purpose...thought that, since her Religion was untrue, there's just no purpose to living.

Then her and the host shared stories of realizing that life was more invigorating once it dawned on them that they're free to decide their own purpose. The simple realization released some gigantic burden off of their shoulders...and made them happy, and focused.

Freedom is beautiful, like that. When I decided my purpose, everything started to click for me as well and its been fulfilling ever since, I really have to say.

If that were true you wouldn’t need to validate your beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others.

I dont validate my beliefs that way, shuckster, so I guess you dont need to be worried about me anymore thanks.

 

[diver52]

Baseless assertions about that which we know not.

So, you don't accept evolution and uniformitarianism because such are based on baseless assertions...

Ok. What is uniformitarianism?

It's the belief that everything has been moving along pretty much the same for hundreds of millions of years. No FLOOD, no 6 day creation, just a slow wearing away and slow rebuilding process repeated over and over...

Interesting. I'd change that to billions of years but you could certainly call me a uniformitarianist. I may need a t-shirt.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The redshift supports the Bible in that God stretches out the heavens like a tent. CMB supports creationist cosmologies. -- Recent Cosmic Microwave Background data supports creationist cosmologies - creation.com. The rest support a young earth, too. You should read Moshe Carmeli and John Hartnett.

Moshe Carmeli - Conservapedia

John Hartnett - Conservapedia

In fact, Fort Fun Indiana got me to read and use creation.com more because he kept claiming that was my source. God works in mysterious ways.

Dark matter unknown god Carmelian - creation.com

Mr Bond, I am not sure what system of hermeneutics you use, but a simple documentary view of the literature itself would seem to deny any assertion that the Bible was written as a modern scientific text.

It does have validity in some of its incidental mentions, such as 'God hangs the Earth upon nothing among the stars', but not others like 'he raised his staff and the Sun was stopped in the sky'.

It has always been difficult to separate the allegory from the literal, even with a proper investigation of the origin and culture of the likely author.

To misapply Holy Text by using it to validate scientific advancement seems to me to be an abuse of Scripture.

I don't mean to criticize you as you work through your faith as I once saw things as you do, I think.

But not any more. The Great Truth of the Bible is that God loves us and watches over us as His children. All the rest is collateral factoid.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Interesting. I'd change that to billions of years but you could certainly call me a uniformitarianist. I may need a t-shirt.

So you don't cotton to Punctuated Equilibrium?

lol

 

[diver52]

Interesting. I'd change that to billions of years but you could certainly call me a uniformitarianist. I may need a t-shirt.

So you don't cotton to Punctuated Equilibrium?

lol

I love it. As would any patriotic uniformitarianist. Let's put that on the t-shirt too!

UNIFORMITARIANISTS FOR PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIUM!!!

 

[G.T.]

Interesting. I'd change that to billions of years but you could certainly call me a uniformitarianist. I may need a t-shirt.

So you don't cotton to Punctuated Equilibrium?

lol

I love it. As would any patriotic uniformitarianist. Let's put that on the t-shirt too!

Should the t-shirt be called the uniform for uniformitarianism

 

[JimBowie1958]

I love it. As would any patriotic uniformitarianist. Let's put that on the t-shirt too!

Should the t-shirt be called the uniform for uniformitarianism

That was good GT.

Now, go back to your play pen.

 

[G.T.]

I love it. As would any patriotic uniformitarianist. Let's put that on the t-shirt too!

Should the t-shirt be called the uniform for uniformitarianism

That was good GT.

Now, go back to your play pen.

Okay Fogel!

Or sorry..McLovin.

 

[james bond]

The redshift supports the Bible in that God stretches out the heavens like a tent. CMB supports creationist cosmologies. -- Recent Cosmic Microwave Background data supports creationist cosmologies - creation.com. The rest support a young earth, too. You should read Moshe Carmeli and John Hartnett.

Moshe Carmeli - Conservapedia

John Hartnett - Conservapedia

In fact, Fort Fun Indiana got me to read and use creation.com more because he kept claiming that was my source. God works in mysterious ways.

Dark matter unknown god Carmelian - creation.com

Mr Bond, I am not sure what system of hermeneutics you use, but a simple documentary view of the literature itself would seem to deny any assertion that the Bible was written as a modern scientific text.

It does have validity in some of its incidental mentions, such as 'God hangs the Earth upon nothing among the stars', but not others like 'he raised his staff and the Sun was stopped in the sky'.

It has always been difficult to separate the allegory from the literal, even with a proper investigation of the origin and culture of the likely author.

To misapply Holy Text by using it to validate scientific advancement seems to me to be an abuse of Scripture.

I don't mean to criticize you as you work through your faith as I once saw things as you do, I think.

But not any more. The Great Truth of the Bible is that God loves us and watches over us as His children. All the rest is collateral factoid.

I never said the Bible was a science book, but science backs up the Bible.

You have to understand secular scientists started to systematically eliminate the creation scientists from science and then the schools, i.e. those who believed in creation, since the 1850s. Before that science believed in creation. Here is what creation scientists contributed to science before then and who they are. Some of the greatest scientists of the past:

Creationist scientist contributions - creation.com

Creation scientists - creation.com

Since the secular scientists, whose majority are atheists, eliminated the creation scientists from their peer reviews, the creation scientists have had to do their own peer reviews for each other's work. Thus, they haven't been as accepted in colleges and universities as much as in the past because these institutions have gone to evolution. Thus, what creation scientists have today are their websites and one college in the US that supports their baraminology. All of the museums and upper institutions that regular people get their science from is biased. We are indeed in a fallen world.

 

[BreezeWood]

How old do you believe the atoms in your body are?

The atoms have been in his body for about 7 years, but the atoms themselves are about 6 billion years old, formed from lighter elements in a Generation 2 star that Supernovaed and deposited the carbon into our solar system as it formed about 5 billion years ago.

The hydrogen atoms of the universe are about 12 billion years old depending on which estimate you choose. At 61 years old, I prefer YOUNGER estimates.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

the elements of the periodic chart were the first life forms in the universe -

View attachment 279534

the compounds became the initial steps to the creation of physiology, by means found in the metaphysical forces used necessary for all beings that exist.

No. Actually the first form of energy were subatomic particles.

.

No. Actually the first form of energy were subatomic particles.

the elements of the periodic chart were the first life forms in the universe -

what do you mean - no. the subatomic particles began the metaphysical process for the beginning of life, where is your contradiction.

 

[Hollie]

The redshift supports the Bible in that God stretches out the heavens like a tent. CMB supports creationist cosmologies. -- Recent Cosmic Microwave Background data supports creationist cosmologies - creation.com. The rest support a young earth, too. You should read Moshe Carmeli and John Hartnett.

Moshe Carmeli - Conservapedia

John Hartnett - Conservapedia

In fact, Fort Fun Indiana got me to read and use creation.com more because he kept claiming that was my source. God works in mysterious ways.

Dark matter unknown god Carmelian - creation.com

Mr Bond, I am not sure what system of hermeneutics you use, but a simple documentary view of the literature itself would seem to deny any assertion that the Bible was written as a modern scientific text.

It does have validity in some of its incidental mentions, such as 'God hangs the Earth upon nothing among the stars', but not others like 'he raised his staff and the Sun was stopped in the sky'.

It has always been difficult to separate the allegory from the literal, even with a proper investigation of the origin and culture of the likely author.

To misapply Holy Text by using it to validate scientific advancement seems to me to be an abuse of Scripture.

I don't mean to criticize you as you work through your faith as I once saw things as you do, I think.

But not any more. The Great Truth of the Bible is that God loves us and watches over us as His children. All the rest is collateral factoid.

I never said the Bible was a science book, but science backs up the Bible.

You have to understand secular scientists started to systematically eliminate the creation scientists from science and then the schools, i.e. those who believed in creation, since the 1850s. Before that science believed in creation. Here is what creation scientists contributed to science before then and who they are. Some of the greatest scientists of the past:

Creationist scientist contributions - creation.com

Creation scientists - creation.com

Since the secular scientists, whose majority are atheists, eliminated the creation scientists from their peer reviews, the creation scientists have had to do their own peer reviews for each other's work. Thus, they haven't been as accepted in colleges and universities as much as in the past because these institutions have gone to evolution. Thus, what creation scientists have today are their websites and one college in the US that supports their baraminology. All of the museums and upper institutions that regular people get their science from is biased. We are indeed in a fallen world.

Sorry, but science does not back up the bibles.

The slogan "creation scientists" is a false label. Creation ministries do no research nor do they publish in peer reviewed science journals.

What we believe - creation.com

You should read the above. Like all of the extremist, fundamentalist ministries, the charlatans at creation.com have predefined conclusions that must meet with biblical literalism.

Stop your nonsense.

 

[BreezeWood]

Here is what creation scientists contributed to science before then and who they are. Some of the greatest scientists of the past:

... you claim them for yourself, no doubt they will have chosen you, the false messiah religion than the true religion of antiquity till their repeat appearances either wore them out or they simply perished - forever.

only the forgeries of the 4th century christian bible need be purged, bringing to lite what was its true value long lost - that is the rendering to the Almighty, the mission required of the faithful - for fruition.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Here is what creation scientists contributed to science before then and who they are. Some of the greatest scientists of the past:

... you claim them for yourself, no doubt they will have chosen you, the false messiah religion than the true religion of antiquity till their repeat appearances either wore them out or they simply perished - forever.

only the forgeries of the 4th century christian bible need be purged, bringing to lite what was its true value long lost - that is the rendering to the Almighty, the mission required of the faithful - for fruition.

Yeah, you just jumped the shark.

Welcome to my ignore list, sock.

 

[james bond]

.. you claim them for yourself, no doubt they will have chosen you, the false messiah religion than the true religion of antiquity till their repeat appearances either wore them out or they simply perished - forever.

only the forgeries of the 4th century christian bible need be purged, bringing to lite what was its true value long lost - that is the rendering to the Almighty, the mission required of the faithful - for fruition.

Yes, they had a choice and made it. Where are the scientists who believed in your religion of antiquity from the ancient times? You had Abraham and Moses, but Christianity had Jesus, and thus, they were converted. As for the rest, they came later -- Top 10 Most Influential Jews In History - Listverse.

 

[ding]

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations say otherwise.

The redshift supports the Bible in that God stretches out the heavens like a tent. CMB supports creationist cosmologies. -- Recent Cosmic Microwave Background data supports creationist cosmologies - creation.com. The rest support a young earth, too. You should read Moshe Carmeli and John Hartnett.

Moshe Carmeli - Conservapedia

John Hartnett - Conservapedia

In fact, Fort Fun Indiana got me to read and use creation.com more because he kept claiming that was my source. God works in mysterious ways.

Dark matter unknown god Carmelian - creation.com

I see.

So how old do you believe the atoms in your body are?