The Cosmological Arguments for God's Existence

[ding]

Yes. The atoms in your body are 14 billion years ago. Deal with it.

I don't have to deal with it b/c I just said the astrophysicists at CERN were lying. Furthermore, your link to CERN is badly dated. How do you know the atoms in our bodies are 14 B years old? The atheists here know more than you about science and the believers know more than you about religion because you listen to neither side. Deal with that.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations say otherwise.

How old do you believe the atoms in your body are?

 

[Hollie]

You must have read the wrong book.

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

Without good reason...break that down for me.

Do you believe in God?

If so, do you believe you have a good reason to believe in God?

If you have faith, then why do you need to empirically prove the existence of a god?
If you have faith then...god exists because you believe she does.

It's apologetics, which is for nonbelievers, not believers. Believers already have more than enough evidence to believe, which is why we began to believe in the first place.

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

 

[ding]

You vot based on your religion. You have organized politically through your religion. You have forced us to be militant. And what about free speech? Do you want to outlaw our words? Your religion seems weak if it can’t be challenged

Is that what you guys are doing? Challenging us?

Here, let me give you a guide to use so you can tell when you are actually challenging us.

View attachment 279496

What are the cosmological arguments for the existence of god? I already debunked those with my first post.

Multiverses. Simple. We just don’t know what god was going before the Big Bang.

And god isn’t necessary. If he is eternal then so too can be the cosmos.

Not our universe. It’s only 13 b years old.

We don’t know. That’s the right answer. Not there must be a god. No there must not

Ok, here you go. Please do debunk it.

It should be obvious that if the material world were not created by spirit that everything that has unfolded in the evolution of space and time would have no intentional purpose. That it is just matter and energy doing what matter and energy do. Conversely, if the material world were created by spirit it should be obvious that the creation of the material world was intentional. After all in my perception of God, God is no thing and the closest thing I can relate to is a mind with no body. Using our own experiences as creators as a proxy, we know that when we create things we create them for a reason and that reason is to serve some purpose. So it would be no great leap of logic to believe that something like a mind with no body would do the same. We also know from our experiences that intelligence tends to create intelligence. We are obsessed with making smart things. So what better thing for a mind with no body to do than create a universe where beings with bodies can create smart things too.


We have good reason to believe that we find ourselves in a universe permeated with life, in which life arises inevitably, given enough time, wherever the conditions exist that make it possible. Yet were any one of a number of the physical properties of our universe otherwise - some of them basic, others seemingly trivial, almost accidental - that life, which seems now to be so prevalent, would become impossible, here or anywhere. It takes no great imagination to conceive of other possible universes, each stable and workable in itself, yet lifeless. How is it that, with so many other apparent options, we are in a universe that possesses just that peculiar nexus of properties that breeds beings that know and create.


The biological laws are such that life is programmed to survive and multiply which is a requisite for intelligence to arise. If the purpose of the universe was to create intelligence then a preference in nature for it had to exist. The Laws of Nature are such that the potential for intelligence to existed the moment space and time were created. One can argue that given the laws of nature and the size of the universe that intelligence arising was inevitable. One can also argue that creating intelligence from nothing defies the Second Law of Entropy. That creating intelligence from nothing increases order within the universe. It actually doesn't because usable energy was lost along the way as a cost of creating order from disorder. But it is nature overriding it's tendency for ever increasing disorder that interests me and raises my suspicions to look deeper and to take seriously the proposition that a mind without a body created the material world so that minds with bodies could create too.


If we examine the physical laws we discover that we live in a logical universe governed by rules, laws and information. Rules laws and information are a signs of intelligence. Intentionality and purpose are signs of intelligence. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.


All we have done so far is to make a logical argument for spirit creating the material world. Certainly not an argument built of fairy tales that's for sure. So going back to the two possibilities; spirit creating the material world versus everything proceeding from the material, the key distinction is no thing versus thing. So if we assume that everything I have described was just an accidental coincidence of the properties of matter, the logical conclusion is that matter and energy are just doing what matter and energy do which makes sense. The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

If?

If what?

It explores both sides of the question as any good objective evaluation should.

 

[LittleNipper]

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So the Creator just cant help wanting to toss the vast majority of His children into the burning Lake of Fire for all eternity?

roflmao, I don't agree with you concept of God.

It is His Will that all be saved, and so they will be, eventually.

But some hard heads take longer than others.

GOD gives everyone choices. GOD HIMSELF provided a way of Salvation. EVERYONE is worthy only of eternal separation as the result of their sin. Those who believe they can save themselves can not. Those who have not become adopted into the family of GOD (through the Messiah alone) are children of the devil and are lost ---- such are not children of GOD. If your concepts are not built on the ROCK of AGES, they are leasing you down the wrong path and away from GOD.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How old do you believe the atoms in your body are?

The atoms have been in his body for about 7 years, but the atoms themselves are about 6 billion years old, formed from lighter elements in a Generation 2 star that Supernovaed and deposited the carbon into our solar system as it formed about 5 billion years ago.

The hydrogen atoms of the universe are about 12 billion years old depending on which estimate you choose. At 61 years old, I prefer YOUNGER estimates.

.

 

[LittleNipper]

You must have read the wrong book.

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

Do you believe in God?

If so, do you believe you have a good reason to believe in God?

If you have faith, then why do you need to empirically prove the existence of a god?
If you have faith then...god exists because you believe she does.

It's apologetics, which is for nonbelievers, not believers. Believers already have more than enough evidence to believe, which is why we began to believe in the first place.

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

 

[JimBowie1958]

GOD gives everyone choices. GOD HIMSELF provided a way of Salvation. EVERYONE is worthy only of eternal separation as the result of their sin. Those who believe they can save themselves can not. Those who have not become adopted into the family of GOD (through the Messiah alone) are children of the devil and are lost ---- such are not children of GOD. If your concepts are not built on the ROCK of AGES, they are leasing you down the wrong path and away from GOD.

So was Enoch a child of Satan or a Child of God?

 

[ding]

How old do you believe the atoms in your body are?

The atoms have been in his body for about 7 years, but the atoms themselves are about 6 billion years old, formed from lighter elements in a Generation 2 star that Supernovaed and deposited the carbon into our solar system as it formed about 5 billion years ago.

The hydrogen atoms of the universe are about 12 billion years old depending on which estimate you choose. At 61 years old, I prefer YOUNGER estimates.

.

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

Personally, I look forward to dying, but I want to keep my wife company as long s I can. She will live for quite some time.

Besides, I have more Woketards to annoy before I go.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by how old a particular atom is.

Say carbon, though its subatomic particles are much older, it likely formed only 6 billion years ago or so as the Generation 2 star built up into a red giant and finally exploded from too much iron.

So is the carbon 6 billion years old or 12 billion y ears old like its subatomic particles are?

If I cut down a 200 year old tree, age the wood in a kiln for two years and then build a cabinet out of it, how old is my cabinet for my sell ad in the paper?

 

[ding]

I believe the atoms in our body were created when space and time were created. They started out as sub atomic particles and have merely changed form since that time. First cosmic evolution, then stellar evolution and then chemical evolution. I believe you are describing when the chemical evolution occurred.

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by how old a particular atom is.

Say carbon, though its subatomic particles are much older, it likely formed only 6 billion years ago or so as the Generation 2 star built up into a red giant and finally exploded from too much iron.

So is the carbon 6 billion years old or 12 billion y ears old like its subatomic particles are?

If I cut down a 200 year old tree, age the wood in a kiln for two years and then build a cabinet out of it, how old is my cabinet for my sell ad in the paper?

I agree.

What I was referring to was when the energy that makes up our atoms was created. That energy was created 14 billion years ago when God willed existence into being.

 

[Hollie]

You must have read the wrong book.

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

If you have faith, then why do you need to empirically prove the existence of a god?
If you have faith then...god exists because you believe she does.

It's apologetics, which is for nonbelievers, not believers. Believers already have more than enough evidence to believe, which is why we began to believe in the first place.

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What I was referring to was when the energy that makes up our atoms was created. That energy was created 14 billion years ago when God willed existence into being.

I hate to be presumptuous, or derail the thread at all, but discussing all this makes me yearn for Paradise, and then later the Divine Presence of God.

Reflecting on the majesty, ancientness and power of the Creator just fills me with awe.

I think that might be why He took so much time, to impress upon our hearts and minds just WHO He is.

 

[G.T.]

You must have read the wrong book.

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

It's apologetics, which is for nonbelievers, not believers. Believers already have more than enough evidence to believe, which is why we began to believe in the first place.

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

I was listening to a woman caller regarding emotional distress she faced when realizing that Religion was a crock of shit.

She said she had felt so empty at first, and that was because she thought she lost purpose...thought that, since her Religion was untrue, there's just no purpose to living.

Then her and the host shared stories of realizing that life was more invigorating once it dawned on them that they're free to decide their own purpose. The simple realization released some gigantic burden off of their shoulders...and made them happy, and focused.

Freedom is beautiful, like that. When I decided my purpose, everything started to click for me as well and its been fulfilling ever since, I really have to say.

 

[LittleNipper]

You must have read the wrong book.

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

It's apologetics, which is for nonbelievers, not believers. Believers already have more than enough evidence to believe, which is why we began to believe in the first place.

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

GOD is love and that love is eternal. However, GOD is also just and perfect. The reality is that GOD and imperfection cannot exist in the same space. It is one's sin that separates one from GOD and not GOD perfection that separates GOD from man. God will is not to make anyone live with HIM; however, hell is the place that exists devoid of GOD's influence. And those that hate GOD's influence will find an existence without GOD is hell indeed.

 

[LittleNipper]

Wow, thats compelling. I guess that, between you and the 100s of other christian sects that all have disagreements with each other, all but one of you also read the wrong book. Let me guess which one is the only one who read the right book...you? Of course.

Job is bad literature, verbose and meandering, that is basically a huge box with a tiny, stupid little argument inside.

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..

No, apologetics is actually for believers. Let’s be honest and admit that overwhelmingly, believers are born into a culture, society that favors some over others. Raise a child in a Hindu culture and overwhelmingly that child will be a believer in the Hindu gods.

Belief for most people is uncritically accepting the gods you were given as a function of place of birth.

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

I was listening to a woman caller regarding emotional distress she faced when realizing that Religion was a crock of shit.

She said she had felt so empty at first, and that was because she thought she lost purpose...thought that, since her Religion was untrue, there's just no purpose to living.

Then her and the host shared stories of realizing that life was more invigorating once it dawned on them that they're free to decide their own purpose. The simple realization released some gigantic burden off of their shoulders...and made them happy, and focused.

Freedom is beautiful, like that. When I decided my purpose, everything started to click for me as well and its been fulfilling ever since, I really have to say.

What a Christian has is not religion but a relationship. Religion doesn't save anybody, but the Messiah becomes one's brother and the Father becomes the saved individual's eternal Father. The Holy Spirit becomes one's comforter and still small voice...

I have freedom from worry about doing this and that --- and being this and that --- and saying this and that. I have freedom from worry and fear. I have a real Father in heaven who loves me.

 

[BreezeWood]

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So the Creator just cant help wanting to toss the vast majority of His children into the burning Lake of Fire for all eternity?

roflmao, I don't agree with you concept of God.

It is His Will that all be saved, and so they will be, eventually.

But some hard heads take longer than others.

.

It is His their Will that all be saved, and so they will be, eventually.

that is not true, admission to the Everlasting is earned a triumph over evil the religion of antiquity your makebelieve is only for a redo at best, "saved" - good luck.

 

[G.T.]

We don't all disagree. Many hold to the very same truths but they originated under different leadership and from different countries: Lutherans (Germany), Huguenots (French), Mennonite (Swiss), Puritans (English), etc..
There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So its really about ego and your fear of death.

How so? I certainly don't consider myself either worthy or perfect. Do you wish to die?

I don't consider myself perfect either. I think to consider myself unworthy (unworthy of what?), is a prescription for a maladjusted personality (and I'm not suggesting that you are maladjusted).

I think that one result of not adhering to the proscription of an ideology that promises eternal damnation for not following the ideology can have serious emotional consequences. I cannot logically resolve a vengeful, vicious god. “His” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive. He can wash away all sins if he wants to. He doesn't want to. Thus he permits the eternal condemnation of most of his children. If his concern was truly safety, he'd change his behavior to one that really embraces safety.

If I were "infinitely merciful" there would be no act that could possibly circumvent my infinite mercy. The comparisons to humans don’t ever work, even as an illustration, because theists insist on a perfect and ultimate and unlimited god. Infinite love and mercy should be what it is-- infinite love and mercy. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile a god who establishes amorality as morality.

I was listening to a woman caller regarding emotional distress she faced when realizing that Religion was a crock of shit.

She said she had felt so empty at first, and that was because she thought she lost purpose...thought that, since her Religion was untrue, there's just no purpose to living.

Then her and the host shared stories of realizing that life was more invigorating once it dawned on them that they're free to decide their own purpose. The simple realization released some gigantic burden off of their shoulders...and made them happy, and focused.

Freedom is beautiful, like that. When I decided my purpose, everything started to click for me as well and its been fulfilling ever since, I really have to say.

What a Christian has is not religion but a relationship. Religion doesn't save anybody, but the Messiah becomes one's brother and the Father becomes the saved individual's eternal Father. The Holy Spirit becomes one's comforter and still small voice...

I have freedom from worry about doing this and that --- and being this and that --- and saying this and that. I have freedom from worry and fear. I have a real Father in heaven who loves me.

That's great, and mind you this is a debate forum, a discussion forum...and so beliefs are challenged here ----- and I dont share yours and actually find them quite ridiculous...BUT, I think that it's probably good that you have yourself some sort of beacon like that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Exactly!!
What happened to Faith?

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone. Would you put complete trust in something or someone without good reason?

Without good reason...break that down for me.

Do you believe in God?

If so, do you believe you have a good reason to believe in God?

If you have faith, then why do you need to empirically prove the existence of a god?
If you have faith then...god exists because you believe she does.

Because faith and reason are inseparable sisters. It would make no sense to continue to have faith in something or someone for no good reason.

.

Because faith and reason are inseparable sisters. It would make no sense to continue to have faith in something or someone for no good reason.

the same to you, fath without fruition is meaningless, your book - triumph is what is judged nothing else. an uphill battle - the apex of knowledge is purity without sin, turn the knob when you get there. the 4th century's fabrications serve no one.

 

[BreezeWood]

There are Jews who are Messianic, and there are many former Hindi who now know Christ as their personal Savior. People who are honest, will realize that trying to be good enough for GOD isn't possible. There is the need of a permanent solution. Jesus was/is the only permanent solution..

So the Creator just cant help wanting to toss the vast majority of His children into the burning Lake of Fire for all eternity?

roflmao, I don't agree with you concept of God.

It is His Will that all be saved, and so they will be, eventually.

But some hard heads take longer than others.

GOD gives everyone choices. GOD HIMSELF provided a way of Salvation. EVERYONE is worthy only of eternal separation as the result of their sin. Those who believe they can save themselves can not. Those who have not become adopted into the family of GOD (through the Messiah alone) are children of the devil and are lost ---- such are not children of GOD. If your concepts are not built on the ROCK of AGES, they are leasing you down the wrong path and away from GOD.

.

GOD gives everyone choices. GOD HIMSELF provided a way of Salvation. EVERYONE is worthy only of eternal separation as the result of their sin. Those who believe they can save themselves can not. Those who have not become adopted into the family of GOD (through the Messiah alone) are children of the devil and are lost ---- such are not children of GOD. If your concepts are not built on the ROCK of AGES, they are leasing you down the wrong path and away from GOD.

your god is the 4th century, roman empire - good luck, jimbowie will send their regards lapping the same pool.