The cost of good government

asaratis

Uppity Senior Citizen
Gold Supporting Member
Jun 20, 2009
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The United States…

…fights against oppressive governments around the globe and votes itself into one at home. We have fought against communism, fascism, Nazism, the Taliban and whatever else scholars may add to the list. Yet the current mass of governmental power would like nothing more than to control and tax every aspect of public life in order to support itself and grow. Government for the sake of government, so to speak; procreates itself because it has attained the power to do so. To me, this is simply a subtle form of oppression.

A bi-partisan effort by Democrats and Republicans through the history of this two party system, though seemingly controlled by law has been corrupted by greed, quests for power, an ever growing catalog of opportunities to enrich their personal lives, those of their heirs and surrounding ilk via control of the purse strings of the treasury, be it city, county, state or national government, and the natural inclination of small groups of humans to take care of their own. The growth of government requires nothing more than money and the decision rights in its allocation and spending.

Government growth creates government jobs requiring salaries to be paid from the treasury, it being solely maintained by taxes, fees and fines imposed by the government, those being paid mostly, in one way or another by the people being governed and other people using the facilities within the jurisdiction of the government. Waste in government expenditures is fueled in part by fear of budget reductions if the current period’s allocation is not spent. Government credit cards are abused daily. The costs of personal use of government property and personal benefit from government services are hardly calculable to the dollar but imagined to be significant. All of this…at the expense of those that have voted each harvest of thieves into the system since the system began.

I contend that at the national level there may be entire departments that should be considered for abolishment. Can you think of any?

I contend also that reductions in staffing and expenditures in other departments could be accomplished without substantial reductions in services to the people.

This thread is to discuss ways to reduce the cost of government and government spending through two channels; reduction in the size of government and revamping of government spending practices. The discussion is open to methods applicable to all governmental entities in the US and to specific conditions within your local governments. If comparison with practices in other countries is used, please provide links to media news articles concerning those practices. Your opinions are welcome, but don’t use the opinions of others expressed in blogs and discussion boards to back up claims you make.

It is intended for discussion mainly amongst those agreeing that reductions in government and government spending are worthy goals. However, those wanting bigger government and more spending please contribute what you will and explain how your approach will lead to an improved state of existence. In all cases, please describe how you think your suggested change would affect the quality of services involved.

My first suggestion is to abolish the IRS. This is coupled with revamping of the tax codes to exclude taxation of income. There is no need for any government to know my income.

  • A smaller revenue service will result in a significant reduction of salary-sucking staff.
  • The government will have less need to keep up with my personal information.
  • Cash flow will be encouraged by letting people receive more of their earned income and deciding what to do with it.
  • Tax lawyers and Accountants would be free to do productive work rather than leech off the legal system.
 
Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.
 
Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Funny that you would say that, because the cap-and-trade scam is nothing but an artificial energy derivatives market being created by the government.
 
Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Funny that you would say that, because the cap-and-trade scam is nothing but an artificial energy derivatives market being created by the government.

It's always funny to see so-called conservatives arguing against market-based solutions.
 
Flat tax - 23% but needs to be graduated upwards for high earners.

Fair tax - 23% consumption tax. Some say it is unfair to low income earners.

Competitive tax - 10-15% value added tax (consumption tax) + 25% income tax on 100K plus earners and corporations. Does not eliminate IRS.

American tax plan - 5% sales tax + 3-5 tier personal flat income tax + distributers/retailers 1.5% + manufacturing/services/professionals 4%. Does not eliminate IRS.
 
Some of what we pay for.

Sher, Susan Assistant To The President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady 172,200

Frye, Jocelyn C Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy and Projects For the Fist Lady 140,000

Rogers, Desiree G. Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary 113,000

Johnston, Camille Y. Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady 102,000

Winter, Melissa E. Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady 102,000

Medina, David S. Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady 90,000

Lelyveld, Catherine M. Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady 84,000

Starkey, Frances M. Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady 75,000

Sanders, Trooper Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady 70,000

Burnough, Erinn J. Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary 65,000

Reinstein, Joseph B. Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary 65,000

Goodman, Jennifer R. Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady 62.000

Fitts, Alan O. Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady 60,000

Lewis, Dana M. Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady 60,000

Mustaphi, Semonti M. Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady 52,500

Jarvis, Kristen E. Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady 50,000

Lechtenberg, Tyler A. Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady 45,000

Tubman, Samantha Deputy Associate Director 45,000

Boswell, Joseph J. Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady $40,000

Armbruster, Sally M. Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary 36,000

Bookey, Natalie Staff Assistant $36,000

Jackson, Deilia A. Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady 36,000

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/July1Report-Draft12.pdf
 
Some of what we pay for.

Sher, Susan Assistant To The President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady 172,200

Frye, Jocelyn C Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy and Projects For the Fist Lady 140,000

Rogers, Desiree G. Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary 113,000

Johnston, Camille Y. Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady 102,000

Winter, Melissa E. Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady 102,000

Medina, David S. Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady 90,000

Lelyveld, Catherine M. Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady 84,000

Starkey, Frances M. Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady 75,000

Sanders, Trooper Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady 70,000

Burnough, Erinn J. Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary 65,000

Reinstein, Joseph B. Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary 65,000

Goodman, Jennifer R. Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady 62.000

Fitts, Alan O. Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady 60,000

Lewis, Dana M. Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady 60,000

Mustaphi, Semonti M. Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady 52,500

Jarvis, Kristen E. Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady 50,000

Lechtenberg, Tyler A. Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady 45,000

Tubman, Samantha Deputy Associate Director 45,000

Boswell, Joseph J. Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady $40,000

Armbruster, Sally M. Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary 36,000

Bookey, Natalie Staff Assistant $36,000

Jackson, Deilia A. Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady 36,000

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/July1Report-Draft12.pdf

And guess what? Laura Bush had those too. As did Barbara Bush. As did Nancy Reagan. And yet, you're just not complaining about it.
 
Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Funny that you would say that, because the cap-and-trade scam is nothing but an artificial energy derivatives market being created by the government.

It's always funny to see so-called conservatives arguing against market-based solutions.
Are you talking to me?
I don't see how a government created artificial energy derivatives market is market-based or a solution to anything.
 
Funny that you would say that, because the cap-and-trade scam is nothing but an artificial energy derivatives market being created by the government.

It's always funny to see so-called conservatives arguing against market-based solutions.

Are you talking to me?
I don't see how a government created artificial energy derivatives market is market-based or a solution to anything.

You don't see how a market is a market-based solution? The alternative for limiting emissions is just setting hard caps.
 
Funny that you would say that, because the cap-and-trade scam is nothing but an artificial energy derivatives market being created by the government.

It's always funny to see so-called conservatives arguing against market-based solutions.
Are you talking to me?
I don't see how a government created artificial energy derivatives market is market-based or a solution to anything.
They love commodities theycan manipulate to make themselves and there cronies rich while the people pick up the tab. DC has to go.
 
It's always funny to see so-called conservatives arguing against market-based solutions.

Are you talking to me?
I don't see how a government created artificial energy derivatives market is market-based or a solution to anything.

You don't see how a market is a market-based solution? The alternative for limiting emissions is just setting hard caps.

You've had the wool pulled over your eyes if you think the government creating that is market based.
 
Cap and trade isn't market based. It is a government imposed attempt to solve a problem that largely - if not completely - exists only in Europe.

We could save a crap load of money simply by eliminating a Department of Education that has proven in its approaching 30 year history to be largely counter productive as well as being a waste of money. The Chief problem with Education funding for more than forty years has been that far too much of the money is spent in places other than the class room and adding 100's more bureaucrats at the federal level has only aggravated that problem.
 
Cap and trade isn't market based.

A market for permits is not a market. Do you even think before you speak?

It is a government imposed attempt to solve a problem that largely - if not completely - exists only in Europe.

Pollution only exists in Europe? That'll be news to most people.
 
We could definately get rid of the IRS by instituting a flat tax , rich or poor , everybody pulls their own weight and pays the same percentage . Get rid of corporate taxes , The Endangered Species Act , the National Environmental Policy Act , The National Fish and Wildlife Service , and The National Marine Fisheries Service ..... for starters .
 
Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Every single scandal in Wallstreet was perpetrated by the government agencies, and you want to give these people all the power everywhere else?
 
We could definately get rid of the IRS by instituting a flat tax , rich or poor , everybody pulls their own weight and pays the same percentage . Get rid of corporate taxes , The Endangered Species Act , the National Environmental Policy Act , The National Fish and Wildlife Service , and The National Marine Fisheries Service ..... for starters .

I support the fair tax , the reality is the rich never pay retail .
 
We could definately get rid of the IRS by instituting a flat tax , rich or poor , everybody pulls their own weight and pays the same percentage . Get rid of corporate taxes , The Endangered Species Act , the National Environmental Policy Act , The National Fish and Wildlife Service , and The National Marine Fisheries Service ..... for starters .

I support the fair tax , the reality is the rich never pay retail .

Many of the rich pay 10 times retail.
 
I don't care for the fair tax because right out of the box it's a joke . It's called a "fair tax" but the government reserves the power to dangle a carrot in front of the nose of low income people . The fair tax will give monthly rebate checks to people below a certain income level . What's fair about that ?
 

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