The 'Couldn't Happen Here' File

[PoliticalChic]

Why did you say my link was only about 1912 to 1920? What purpose did such an ostentatious display of stupidity serve you?

In your link, what were the years covered for New York?

If you insist on talking about New York, fine.

Point one from my lnk:

Precipitating Factors and Processes

New York's Ellis Island is renowned for having been the gateway to the United States for millions of immigrants in the nineteeneth and twentieth centuries. Immigration, as a major social phenomenon and issue, is ingrained in the history of the state.

In the early twentieth century, partly in response to a massive influx of immigrants, the Americanization movement was gaining ground in New York. This movement stressed the assimilation and naturalization of foreign-born individuals.

The New York Bureau of Industries and Immigration was the first immigrant social welfare program in the nation but in 1913 Marian Clark, a eugenicist, took over as chief investigator of the bureau. She attemped, without much success, to graft eugenics onto the Americanization movement (Ziegler-McPherson, pp. 54-55).

Clark advocated immigration restriction to shape American culture;

she supported exclusion and sterilization of "defective" aliens and citizens, believing that the United States could develop a healthier and stabler society as a result.

She even attempted, unsuccessfully, to enlist the aid of eugenics leader Charles Davenport to "develop a plan whereby the state might be relieved of the burden of not only deportable insane aliens, but also alien criminals and other dependants."

Despite Clark's conviction to eugenics through immigration restriction, only a few hundred to a thousand "defective" aliens were deported each year before 1921 because of lack of governmental funding.

And point two, to address your attempt to blame this on the progressive movement:

Americanization gained momentum as both a social movement and public policy in 1913–15. Frances A. Kellor, the former chief investigator for the NYBII, was working to build a national movement through the CCIH, while her successor, Marian K. Clark, was making her own mark on the NYBII.

The new chief investigator's attempt to graft eugenics onto Americanization weakened the bureau politically. As conservatives attacked the NYBII for interfering with businesses' labor practices, New York progressives were unwilling to defend the bureau because of Clark's advocacy of a eugenics-based immigration policy.

By 1915, Americanization had become a national movement, as progressives interested in immigration had established a nationwide network. However, New York was quickly losing its position as pioneer and leader of this new movement, as the Bureau of Industries and Immigration became distracted with Clark's efforts to graft eugenics onto Americanization.

Link:
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/viewindexcard/10.5744$002fflorida$002f9780813033617.003.0004?print

So, despite your attempt to connect eugenics in NY circa 1915 to Progressives, the above author makes the point that progressives in NY were in fact opposed to Marian Clark's attempts to advance eugenics.

Okay?

In your link, what were the years covered for New York?

 

[g5000]

In your link, what were the years covered for New York?

What part of "In the early twentieth century" did you not understand?

 

[g5000]

How much did the slaves pay for healthcare?

Depends on what dollar value you put on 12 - 16 hour days.

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

Holy shit.

You aren't really this stupid, are you? Please tell me you are being satirical!

 

[g5000]

In your link, what were the years covered for New York?

If you read his link for New York, you would see:

All of the sterilizations under New York’s sterilization law occurred after its passage in 1912 and before its repeal in 1920 (Paul, p. 560).

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The aim of the eugenics movement in the United States during the first half of the twentieth century was to prevent the degeneration of the white race.

A central tactic of the movement was the involuntary sterilization of people labeled as feebleminded.

An analysis of the practice of eugenic sterilization provides insight into how the concepts of gender, race, class, and disability are fundamentally intertwined.

I argue that in the early twentieth century, the concept of feeblemindedness came to operate as an umbrella concept that linked off-white ethnicity, poverty, and gendered conceptions of lack of moral character together

and that feeblemindedness thus understood functioned as the signifier of tainted whiteness."

Anna Stubblefield - 'Beyond the Pale': Tainted Whiteness, Cognitive Disability, and Eugenic Sterilization"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

"So....where did our Progressives take us? Eugenics, the attempts to prevent the breeding by the wrong kind of people, "the multiplication of the unfit, the production of a horde of unwanted souls."
From "The Control of Births," The New Republic, March 6, 1915.

a. " The New Republic (TNR) is a liberal American magazine of commentary on politics and the arts published continuously since 1914... The New Republic was founded by Herbert Croly and Walter Lippmann..." The New Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

From
http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-relations-racism/299869-science-often-supported-racism.html

So between the two of us, if nothing else, we've proven that the eugenics 'fad' of the late 19th early 20th century cannot be wholly attributed to either side of the political spectrum.

That of course proves your OP wrong. Thanks for the help.

"... we've proven that the eugenics 'fad' of the late 19th early 20th century cannot be wholly attributed to either side of the political spectrum."

I'm thinking of constructing an OP based on the above quote.
Do you mind attribution?

If you are shy, I will use it without your name.

Advise.

 

[asterism]

Depends on what dollar value you put on 12 - 16 hour days.

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

You're the one calling it capitalism so I'm trying to figure out how they paid for their healthcare.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

You're the one calling it capitalism so I'm trying to figure out how they paid for their healthcare.

What part of capitalism doesn't apply?

What part of a privately owned plantation producing crops for profit is not capitalism?

What's the material difference between a plantation owner selectively breeding his mules, his horses, his cattle, and selective breeding his slaves, when all is done with the interests of the business ?

 

[daveman]

Since I've provided more examples of conservatives who supported eugenics in the past than you have provided examples of liberals,

I'd say that either you can't read, or you can't comprehend, or there's some combination of both at work.

What evidence did you provide that they were conservatives? "Because they're racist!!"?

Less than compelling, actually.

You want compelling evidence? That you can't refute?

Fine. Read:

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

You can look up the recorded number of sterilizations state by state.

I suggest you start with the states you know to have been predominately conservative in 20th century.

I'm not doing your homework for you. Get crackin', boy.

 

[daveman]

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

No, it's not. jeezus what is wrong with you?

Progressive Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eugenics[edit]

Some progressives, especially among economists, sponsored eugenics as a collectivist solution to excessively large or underperforming families, hoping that birth control would enable parents to focus their resources on fewer, better children.[33] However, there were no major national, state or local programs that practiced or endorsed eugenics. Progressive leaders like Herbert Croly and Walter Lippmann indicated their classically liberal concern over the danger posed to the individual by collectivism and statism.[34] The Catholics, although favoring collectivism, strongly opposed birth control proposals such as eugenics .[35]​

What's wrong with her? Nothing.

 

[daveman]

Depends on what dollar value you put on 12 - 16 hour days.

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

Yes. You're only getting something for free if liberals insist rich people pay for it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

No, it's not. jeezus what is wrong with you?

Progressive Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eugenics[edit]

Some progressives, especially among economists, sponsored eugenics as a collectivist solution to excessively large or underperforming families, hoping that birth control would enable parents to focus their resources on fewer, better children.[33] However, there were no major national, state or local programs that practiced or endorsed eugenics. Progressive leaders like Herbert Croly and Walter Lippmann indicated their classically liberal concern over the danger posed to the individual by collectivism and statism.[34] The Catholics, although favoring collectivism, strongly opposed birth control proposals such as eugenics .[35]​

What's wrong with her? Nothing.

Did the link I posted only cover 8 years? Yes or no.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What evidence did you provide that they were conservatives? "Because they're racist!!"?

Less than compelling, actually.

You want compelling evidence? That you can't refute?

Fine. Read:

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

You can look up the recorded number of sterilizations state by state.

I suggest you start with the states you know to have been predominately conservative in 20th century.

I'm not doing your homework for you. Get crackin', boy.

Like I said, it's evidence you can't refute.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

Yes. You're only getting something for free if liberals insist rich people pay for it.

Rich people are paying for your pension.

 

[daveman]

No, it's not. jeezus what is wrong with you?

Progressive Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eugenics[edit]

Some progressives, especially among economists, sponsored eugenics as a collectivist solution to excessively large or underperforming families, hoping that birth control would enable parents to focus their resources on fewer, better children.[33] However, there were no major national, state or local programs that practiced or endorsed eugenics. Progressive leaders like Herbert Croly and Walter Lippmann indicated their classically liberal concern over the danger posed to the individual by collectivism and statism.[34] The Catholics, although favoring collectivism, strongly opposed birth control proposals such as eugenics .[35]​

What's wrong with her? Nothing.

Did the link I posted only cover 8 years? Yes or no.

I'm pretty sure you can find help in NYC for your illiteracy.

"Some progressives, especially among economists, sponsored eugenics..."

Get it now?

On edit: Here you go: http://www.literacypartners.org/literacy-in-america/iliteracy-in-new-york-city

 

[daveman]

You want compelling evidence? That you can't refute?

Fine. Read:

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

You can look up the recorded number of sterilizations state by state.

I suggest you start with the states you know to have been predominately conservative in 20th century.

I'm not doing your homework for you. Get crackin', boy.

Like I said, it's evidence you can't refute.

You made a claim, you back it up. I can't refute what you refuse to present.

Did you really expect me to just take your word for it, Skippy?

 

[daveman]

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

Yes. You're only getting something for free if liberals insist rich people pay for it.

Rich people are paying for your pension.

You mean the pension that I earned, versus the health care you insist people should get for "free" by doing nothing?

I bet you thought you scored a devastating point, too.

 

[Avatar4321]

When people say "It couldn't happen here" we should usually prepare for that happening.

 

[asterism]

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

You're the one calling it capitalism so I'm trying to figure out how they paid for their healthcare.

What part of capitalism doesn't apply?

What part of a privately owned plantation producing crops for profit is not capitalism?

What's the material difference between a plantation owner selectively breeding his mules, his horses, his cattle, and selective breeding his slaves, when all is done with the interests of the business ?

The part where the federal government and the state governments played favorites by allowing people to be bought and sold as property, and the part where the slaves were treated in the same way as the socialized nations treat their people. Free food, free healthcare, but you have to work for the master.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You're the one calling it capitalism so I'm trying to figure out how they paid for their healthcare.

What part of capitalism doesn't apply?

What part of a privately owned plantation producing crops for profit is not capitalism?

What's the material difference between a plantation owner selectively breeding his mules, his horses, his cattle, and selective breeding his slaves, when all is done with the interests of the business ?

The part where the federal government and the state governments played favorites by allowing people to be bought and sold as property, and the part where the slaves were treated in the same way as the socialized nations treat their people. Free food, free healthcare, but you have to work for the master.

The government didn't allow them to buy and sell animals?

lol, you're an idiot. You need to stop posting and sort yourself out.

btw, do you not work?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes. You're only getting something for free if liberals insist rich people pay for it.

Rich people are paying for your pension.

You mean the pension that I earned, versus the health care you insist people should get for "free" by doing nothing?

I bet you thought you scored a devastating point, too.

I take that to mean you would end Medicaid altogether, plus end the 40% of Medicare that isn't covered by the payroll tax.

Good luck with that.

Should we end public schooling too for people who don't pay for it?