The 'Couldn't Happen Here' File

[daveman]

Since I've provided more examples of conservatives who supported eugenics in the past than you have provided examples of liberals,

I'd say that either you can't read, or you can't comprehend, or there's some combination of both at work.

What evidence did you provide that they were conservatives? "Because they're racist!!"?

Less than compelling, actually.

Actually, it is a pretty accurate statement. Kind of like "Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives".

Y'know, pointing to your own bigotry as proof of a claim proves only that you're a bigot.

Let me know if you need help understanding this concept. Because I'm pretty sure you don't get it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You gasbag....you're the explanation of why the Hindenburg ended up the way it did.

You the liar, ....I, the scholar.

And so it shall remain.

Since I've provided more examples of conservatives who supported eugenics in the past than you have provided examples of liberals,

I'd say that either you can't read, or you can't comprehend, or there's some combination of both at work.

What evidence did you provide that they were conservatives? "Because they're racist!!"?

Less than compelling, actually.

You want compelling evidence? That you can't refute?

Fine. Read:

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

You can look up the recorded number of sterilizations state by state.

I suggest you start with the states you know to have been predominately conservative in 20th century.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No fair bringing up historical examples! This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius...

Nobody said history should be off the table, but it ought to be relevant history.

For example,

let's talk about slavery, a function of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

And then let's talk about Slave Breeding in the old South, a prime example of Eugenics,

and one done for the sake of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

Fair enough?

We no longer permit slavery.
Sweden is STILL a socialist country.
Now that we have that established, your point is?

What does socialism have to do with forced sterilization?

 

[NYcarbineer]

No fair bringing up historical examples! This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius...

Nobody said history should be off the table, but it ought to be relevant history.

For example,

let's talk about slavery, a function of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

And then let's talk about Slave Breeding in the old South, a prime example of Eugenics,

and one done for the sake of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

Fair enough?

We no longer permit slavery.
Sweden is STILL a socialist country.
Now that we have that established, your point is?

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

 

[PoliticalChic]

Nobody said history should be off the table, but it ought to be relevant history.

For example,

let's talk about slavery, a function of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

And then let's talk about Slave Breeding in the old South, a prime example of Eugenics,

and one done for the sake of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

Fair enough?

We no longer permit slavery.
Sweden is STILL a socialist country.
Now that we have that established, your point is?

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We no longer permit slavery.
Sweden is STILL a socialist country.
Now that we have that established, your point is?

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

No, it's not. jeezus what is wrong with you?

 

[NYcarbineer]

We no longer permit slavery.
Sweden is STILL a socialist country.
Now that we have that established, your point is?

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

One example from my link:

Stop being mentally retarded, if that's possible.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

One example from my link:

Stop being mentally retarded, if that's possible.

New York.

 

[whitehall]

As long as the education system produces ignorant underachievers, history becomes "social studies", the Constitution is considered irrelevant, the media becomes an arm of the administration and left wingers consider foreign born illegal aliens to be a potential voting block, anything can happen. It should be noted that Sweden was pro-Nazi during WW2.

 

[asterism]

Nobody said history should be off the table, but it ought to be relevant history.

For example,

let's talk about slavery, a function of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

And then let's talk about Slave Breeding in the old South, a prime example of Eugenics,

and one done for the sake of CAPITALISM, not socialism.

Fair enough?

Really? Capitalism causes slavery? There was no such thing as capitalism back in the Neolithic era, Carbine, you dumbass. Once again you make an unsubstantiated argument. Eugenics? Eugenics is a neo-liberal notion! Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist, you know, the founder of Planned Parenthood? It's only natural Progressives would still hearken back to that.

Would you like to argue whether or not the plantation system of the antebellum South, with a large part of its labor done by slaves,

was a capitalist or socialist economy?

Go ahead. Convince me that privately owned plantations, with the property and the means of production, as well as the capital investment, done by private citizens,

was socialism, not capitalism.

How much did the slaves pay for healthcare?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? Capitalism causes slavery? There was no such thing as capitalism back in the Neolithic era, Carbine, you dumbass. Once again you make an unsubstantiated argument. Eugenics? Eugenics is a neo-liberal notion! Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist, you know, the founder of Planned Parenthood? It's only natural Progressives would still hearken back to that.

Would you like to argue whether or not the plantation system of the antebellum South, with a large part of its labor done by slaves,

was a capitalist or socialist economy?

Go ahead. Convince me that privately owned plantations, with the property and the means of production, as well as the capital investment, done by private citizens,

was socialism, not capitalism.

How much did the slaves pay for healthcare?

Depends on what dollar value you put on 12 - 16 hour days.

 

[asterism]

Would you like to argue whether or not the plantation system of the antebellum South, with a large part of its labor done by slaves,

was a capitalist or socialist economy?

Go ahead. Convince me that privately owned plantations, with the property and the means of production, as well as the capital investment, done by private citizens,

was socialism, not capitalism.

How much did the slaves pay for healthcare?

Depends on what dollar value you put on 12 - 16 hour days.

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The period covered in the discussion, your link, of forced sterilization was 1912-1920.

Did you know that that is known as the Progressive Era?

Guess why.

One example from my link:

Stop being mentally retarded, if that's possible.

New York.

Why did you say my link was only about 1912 to 1920? What purpose did such an ostentatious display of stupidity serve you?

 

[g5000]

This shit cracks me up. Start off by talking about some ancient sterilizations in a land far away, and then segue into something COMPLETELY UNRELATED.

Jesus, you idiots make less and less sense every day.

" Signs of ObamaCare's failings mount daily, including soaring insurance costs, looming provider shortages and inadequate insurance exchanges. Yet the law's most disturbing feature may be the Independent Payment Advisory Board. The IPAB, sometimes called a "death panel," threatens both the Medicare program and the Constitution's separation of powers....

Nice try. However, the "death panels" were a provision offered up as an amendment to ObamaCare which would pay for a doctor's visit to discuss what treatment you wanted for end of life care.

This was a case of a patient getting to decide for themselves what treatment they would want should the occasion arise they were no longer able to speak for themselves. These doctor visits were not covered by insurance, and Congressman Blumenauer simply inserted this amendment so they would be.

Then people with complete shit for brains, like Sarah Palin, began calling this provision "death panels". A patient deciding their own care = death panels. Yeah. I kid you not.

Since being publicly humiliated for being so mind boggling stupid, the shit for brains have been scrambling to find "death panels" elsewhere so they can pretend this is what they meant all along.

And that brings us to the "death panels" du jour, the IPAB.

The IPAB's role is to prevent Medicare costs from skyrocketing.

Gee, the Republican Party is saying out of one side of its flatulent mouth how much it HATES Medicare and wants to KILL Medicare, and how Medicare taxes are slavery, blah blah blah.

Then out of the other side of its mouth, it is saying that keeping Medicare cost effective is "DEATH PANELS". If this isn't evidence of pandering the fuck out of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.



This is the same party, by the way, which enacted massive Medicare cuts as the Congressional majority back in Clinton's day to balance the budget. These same cuts which come up every year to this very day which are overruled with an annual "doc fix".

Funny...I didn't hear the GOP calling its Medicare cuts "death panels". I never heard the words "death panels" during the annual "doc fix" debates!

Hmmmm...

 

[NYcarbineer]

As long as the education system produces ignorant underachievers, history becomes "social studies", the Constitution is considered irrelevant, the media becomes an arm of the administration and left wingers consider foreign born illegal aliens to be a potential voting block, anything can happen. It should be noted that Sweden was pro-Nazi during WW2.

And socialist Great Britain was anti-Nazi.

What is your point? The author of this thread thinks that leftwingers in America are trying to kill off their 'voting block' of black Americans.

Don't you find that insane? Or do you have a partisan prejudice so deeply embedded in your soul that you are incapable of acknowledging insanity in a fellow conservative?

 

[g5000]

Let's talk about "death panels", shall we?

1995: Congress's Medicare Plans Rejected by Clinton Aides

The Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Donna E. Shalala, told the Senate Finance Committee that the Administration did not want to raise the eligibility age for Medicare, increase premiums or other costs for beneficiaries or reduce payments to hospitals serving large numbers of poor people.

She testified on a day when the battle over Medicare was fully joined on Capitol Hill, as Democrats and lobbyists for the elderly denounced Republican proposals as blatant attempts to balance the budget and give tax cuts to the affluent at the expense of the old and the sick.

So this faux whining over controlling Medicare costs is complete fucking unmitigated hypocritical bullshit.

 

[g5000]

The GOP needs to make up its schizophrenic mind. You either want to cut Medicare costs, or you don't. You either want to reduce payments to hospitals serving poor people (like Sweden lobotomizing retards, amiright?), or you don't.

I think the GOP has been lobotomizing retards and registering them on this forum to make Opening Posts like the one in this topic.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How much did the slaves pay for healthcare?

Depends on what dollar value you put on 12 - 16 hour days.

So they received it but didn't have to pay correct?

Have you contracted PoliticalChic disease or what?

If you're saying that working 16 hours a day (involuntarily) in exchange for food shelter clothing and medical treatment when needed represents getting something for free,

you're fucking insane.

 

[PoliticalChic]

One example from my link:

Stop being mentally retarded, if that's possible.

New York.

Why did you say my link was only about 1912 to 1920? What purpose did such an ostentatious display of stupidity serve you?

In your link, what were the years covered for New York?

 

[NYcarbineer]

New York.

Why did you say my link was only about 1912 to 1920? What purpose did such an ostentatious display of stupidity serve you?

In your link, what were the years covered for New York?

If you insist on talking about New York, fine.

Point one from my lnk:

Precipitating Factors and Processes

New York's Ellis Island is renowned for having been the gateway to the United States for millions of immigrants in the nineteeneth and twentieth centuries. Immigration, as a major social phenomenon and issue, is ingrained in the history of the state.

In the early twentieth century, partly in response to a massive influx of immigrants, the Americanization movement was gaining ground in New York. This movement stressed the assimilation and naturalization of foreign-born individuals.

The New York Bureau of Industries and Immigration was the first immigrant social welfare program in the nation but in 1913 Marian Clark, a eugenicist, took over as chief investigator of the bureau. She attemped, without much success, to graft eugenics onto the Americanization movement (Ziegler-McPherson, pp. 54-55).

Clark advocated immigration restriction to shape American culture;

she supported exclusion and sterilization of "defective" aliens and citizens, believing that the United States could develop a healthier and stabler society as a result.

She even attempted, unsuccessfully, to enlist the aid of eugenics leader Charles Davenport to "develop a plan whereby the state might be relieved of the burden of not only deportable insane aliens, but also alien criminals and other dependants."

Despite Clark's conviction to eugenics through immigration restriction, only a few hundred to a thousand "defective" aliens were deported each year before 1921 because of lack of governmental funding.

And point two, to address your attempt to blame this on the progressive movement:

Americanization gained momentum as both a social movement and public policy in 1913–15. Frances A. Kellor, the former chief investigator for the NYBII, was working to build a national movement through the CCIH, while her successor, Marian K. Clark, was making her own mark on the NYBII.

The new chief investigator's attempt to graft eugenics onto Americanization weakened the bureau politically. As conservatives attacked the NYBII for interfering with businesses' labor practices, New York progressives were unwilling to defend the bureau because of Clark's advocacy of a eugenics-based immigration policy.

By 1915, Americanization had become a national movement, as progressives interested in immigration had established a nationwide network. However, New York was quickly losing its position as pioneer and leader of this new movement, as the Bureau of Industries and Immigration became distracted with Clark's efforts to graft eugenics onto Americanization.

Link:
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/viewindexcard/10.5744$002fflorida$002f9780813033617.003.0004?print

So, despite your attempt to connect eugenics in NY circa 1915 to Progressives, the above author makes the point that progressives in NY were in fact opposed to Marian Clark's attempts to advance eugenics.

Okay?