Because the deep state/career politicians react with emotion rather than common sense.
No amount of bleeding heart frivolous gun control laws will change crazy people

Then you admit that the 2nd amendment needs updated. Okay, fine, now back to the 64,000 dollar question, who makes that determination?

I did state amended. And you should have the right to keep and bear arms. What is lacking is the laws that have passed in the background that have actually changed the 2nd amendment like the 1934 Federal Firearms Act and such. These should be part of the 2nd amendment or the 2nd amendment should have a clause that allows these types of things. The 1934 Federal Firearms Act, by definition, is Unconstitutional as it was done by the Feds and not the States.
Leave the second amendment as it is, Technology has no bearing on individual rights

Tell me, what good is an Organized Militia? Can the state afford such a thing? Does each state of the trillions of dollars to support, equip and man an Organized Militia in the intent of the Founding Fathers? When you can answer that to satisfaction then I will agree with you.
The Second Amendment represents what it is today… The absolute right for individual to own personal firearms. The only one that can fuck that up is the individual themselves.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State seems to be left out by you. And the last clause has also been outdated. Only 5 words still apply and even that is questionable.

From Heller.....


But apart from that clarifying function, a prefatory clause does not limit or expand the scope of the operative clause. See F. Dwarris, A General Treatise on Statutes 268–269 (P. Potter ed. 1871) (hereinafter Dwarris); T. Sedgwick, The Interpretation and Construction of Statutory and Constitutional Law 42–45 (2d ed. 1874).3 “‘It is nothing unusual in acts . . . for the enacting part to go beyond the preamble; the remedy often extends beyond the particular act or mischief which first suggested the necessity of the law.’” J. Bishop,
--------------------
3As Sutherland explains, the key 18th-century English case on the effect of preambles, Copeman v. Gallant, 1 P. Wms. 314, 24 Eng. Rep. 404 (1716), stated that “the preamble could not be used to restrict the effect of the words of the purview.” J. Sutherland, Statutes and Statutory Construction, 47.04 (N. Singer ed. 5th ed. 1992). This rule was modified in England in an 1826 case to give more importance to the preamble, but in America “the settled principle of law is that the preamble cannot control the enacting part of the statute in cases where the enacting part is expressed in clear, unambiguous terms.” Ibid.
-----------------------------------


c. Meaning of the Operative Clause. Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment. We look to this because it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right.
-----

3. Relationship between Prefatory Clause and Operative Clause We reach the question, then:

Does the preface fit with an operative clause that creates an individual right to keep and bear arms? It fits perfectly, once one knows the history that the founding generation knew and that we have described above. That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the ablebodied men was not by banning the militia but simply by taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress political opponents. This is what had occurred in England that prompted codification of the right to have arms in the English Bill of Rights. The debate with respect to the right to keep and bear arms, as with other guarantees in the Bill of Rights, was not over whether it was desirable (all agreed that it was) but over whether it needed to be codified in the Constitution. During the 1788 ratification debates, the fear that the federal government would disarm the people in order to impose rule through a standing army or select militia was pervasive in Antifederalist rhetoric. See, e.g., Letters from The Federal Farmer III (Oct. 10, 1787), in 2 The Complete Anti-Federalist 234, 242 (H. Storing ed. 1981). John Smilie, for example, worried not only that Congress’s “command of the militia” could be used to create a “select militia,” or to have “no militia at all,” but also, as a separate concern, that “[w]hen a select militia is formed; the people in general may be disarmed.” 2 Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution 508–509 (M. Jensen ed. 1976) (hereinafter Documentary Hist.). Federalists responded that because Congress was given no power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, such a force could never oppress the people. See, e.g., A Pennsylvanian III (Feb. 20, 1788), in The
 
You went braind dead on the first clause. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State says it's more than what you claim it is.

SCOTUS has been saying you are wrong for going on 140 years.

The right to arms is not granted by the 2nd Amendment thus it is not in any manner dependent upon the Constitution for its existence.
That's what I have been trying to tell you

Cruikshank
The Justices stated "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence.


Oh... you don't understand what they were saying here...that is your problem.


By saying the Right wasn't granted by the Constitution, they are not saying it doesn't exist.....they are saying the Right exists without the Constitution because it pre existed the Constitution, it isn't created by it.
 
Then who does? The 2nd amendment has been chipped away until about only a 5 word part of it actually makes sense and even that is too broad a statement. Nothing like that would ever be allowed to stand in a court of law if presented today. I already laid out the reasons it has to be rewritten to make it up to todays standards. But that would mean that you would no longer be able to hammer anyone over the head with it with your own interpretation of it. And you really can't have that, can you.

Now, back to the question, if the Feds don't, who does?
Because the deep state/career politicians react with emotion rather than common sense.
No amount of bleeding heart frivolous gun control laws will change crazy people

Then you admit that the 2nd amendment needs updated. Okay, fine, now back to the 64,000 dollar question, who makes that determination?

I did state amended. And you should have the right to keep and bear arms. What is lacking is the laws that have passed in the background that have actually changed the 2nd amendment like the 1934 Federal Firearms Act and such. These should be part of the 2nd amendment or the 2nd amendment should have a clause that allows these types of things. The 1934 Federal Firearms Act, by definition, is Unconstitutional as it was done by the Feds and not the States.
Leave the second amendment as it is, Technology has no bearing on individual rights
And the 2A has no bearing on gun rights other than for their use in the militia...which no longer exists


You didn't read Heller.....before you comment on gun law you should read Heller, Caetano v Massachusettes, Macdonald v Chicago, Miller v U.S.....and the others...
Every decision before Heller dealt with gun rights insofar as they concerned the militia clause

Every decision after based itself on Scalia's insanity pretending that the militia clause isn't there
 
Because the deep state/career politicians react with emotion rather than common sense.
No amount of bleeding heart frivolous gun control laws will change crazy people

Then you admit that the 2nd amendment needs updated. Okay, fine, now back to the 64,000 dollar question, who makes that determination?

I did state amended. And you should have the right to keep and bear arms. What is lacking is the laws that have passed in the background that have actually changed the 2nd amendment like the 1934 Federal Firearms Act and such. These should be part of the 2nd amendment or the 2nd amendment should have a clause that allows these types of things. The 1934 Federal Firearms Act, by definition, is Unconstitutional as it was done by the Feds and not the States.
Leave the second amendment as it is, Technology has no bearing on individual rights
And the 2A has no bearing on gun rights other than for their use in the militia...which no longer exists


You didn't read Heller.....before you comment on gun law you should read Heller, Caetano v Massachusettes, Macdonald v Chicago, Miller v U.S.....and the others...
Every decision before Heller dealt with gun rights insofar as they concerned the militia clause

Every decision after based itself on Scalia's insanity pretending that the militia clause isn't there

Wrong....Heller gives the history, you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Then you admit that the 2nd amendment needs updated. Okay, fine, now back to the 64,000 dollar question, who makes that determination?

I did state amended. And you should have the right to keep and bear arms. What is lacking is the laws that have passed in the background that have actually changed the 2nd amendment like the 1934 Federal Firearms Act and such. These should be part of the 2nd amendment or the 2nd amendment should have a clause that allows these types of things. The 1934 Federal Firearms Act, by definition, is Unconstitutional as it was done by the Feds and not the States.
Leave the second amendment as it is, Technology has no bearing on individual rights
And the 2A has no bearing on gun rights other than for their use in the militia...which no longer exists


You didn't read Heller.....before you comment on gun law you should read Heller, Caetano v Massachusettes, Macdonald v Chicago, Miller v U.S.....and the others...
Every decision before Heller dealt with gun rights insofar as they concerned the militia clause

Every decision after based itself on Scalia's insanity pretending that the militia clause isn't there

Wrong....Heller gives the history, you don't know what you are talking about.
Heller gives the excuses...none of which make sense
 
Leave the second amendment as it is, Technology has no bearing on individual rights
And the 2A has no bearing on gun rights other than for their use in the militia...which no longer exists


You didn't read Heller.....before you comment on gun law you should read Heller, Caetano v Massachusettes, Macdonald v Chicago, Miller v U.S.....and the others...
Every decision before Heller dealt with gun rights insofar as they concerned the militia clause

Every decision after based itself on Scalia's insanity pretending that the militia clause isn't there

Wrong....Heller gives the history, you don't know what you are talking about.
Heller gives the excuses...none of which make sense


You are suffering from reality dyslexia..... you see the truth, and think it is false, you see that which is false, and think it is the truth....so too with the Heller Decision.... read it slowly, sound out the words, and you might just be able to understand it....
 
You're focusing on a SCOTUS decision . . . You're also ignoring the other decisions which also dealt with gun rights in terms of the militia clause.

I'm just focusing on the first case. We should dispense with your incorrect beliefs about the first case before we move to any others.

that says that the 2A does not cover gun rights.

Ludicrous. SCOTUS plainly, clearly says that the Freemen's right that Cruikshank et al were charged with violating, "that of 'bearing arms for lawful purpose'" is the "it" that the 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed".*

It says this because the charge was that the militia had deprived the ex-slaves of their second amendment rights.

Wrong. In fact IF the violators of the Freemen's rights were militia members, the decision in Cruikshank would have been very different. The 14th would have been applied and the convictions would have been upheld.

As I said though, there was no militia in Louisiana in 1873, Cruikshank and the others were private citizens, not militia thus the SCOTUS held that there as no federal interest. You are as wrong as one can be on this case.

Please put me on ignore.

Not yet. You did explain your goofy statement in post 1914 so I can't declare you insane . . . I can handle an anti-gunner being wrong on the law; I can't handle insane incoherent ramblings (which 1914 at first appeared to be).

That way I can rebutt your nonsense without having to put up with your insanity directly.

You haven't rebutted anything; all you have done is utter disconnected statements without any substantiation.





* Not to jump ahead but 10 years later, the Presser Court quotes Cruikshank but substitutes the Cruikshank case specific language and substitutes the familiar words of the 2nd Amendment:


"the chief justice, in delivering the judgment of the court, said that the right of the people to keep and bear arms 'is not a right granted by the constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed,'"​


It is interesting that Justice Woods is putting words in the Chief Justice Waite's mouth but Justice Waite must endorse this interpretation of Cruikshank -- after all, Waite signed the majority opinion in Presser.
 
What it means is that the 2nd amendment badly needs to be updated to a more modern law.
And that is a very fair opinion to have. But that is the key. Until the 2nd Amendment is legally and properly amended, I have a right to keep and bear arms.
Within Reason. Always within reason. And it's up to the various States to come up with the "Within Reason" and we all have to live with that ruling.
That may be the dumbest thing you have ever said. The U.S. Constitution does not say “within reason”. It says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Period. Without exception. And your “within reason” is an infringement.

Basically, you’re pissed off that you can’t get the votes you want to amend the constitution. That’s normal for you fascists.
 
So you like it to mean absolutely nothing. That is where is stands today.
Typical left-wing stupidity. “The U.S. Constitution means absolutely nothing”.

Sorry Adolf, words have meaning. And the U.S. Constitution is not only a legal document, it is the highest law in the land. Period.
 
We need to rewrite the 2nd amendment for todays world.
If that were true, you would have 0 problem getting the votes you need to properly and legally amend the U.S. Constitution. Since you don’t, it would seem that the American people disagree with you on this matter.

We the People have spoken...
 
What it means is that the 2nd amendment badly needs to be updated to a more modern law.
And that is a very fair opinion to have. But that is the key. Until the 2nd Amendment is legally and properly amended, I have a right to keep and bear arms.
Within Reason. Always within reason. And it's up to the various States to come up with the "Within Reason" and we all have to live with that ruling.
That may be the dumbest thing you have ever said. The U.S. Constitution does not say “within reason”. It says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Period. Without exception. And your “within reason” is an infringement.

Basically, you’re pissed off that you can’t get the votes you want to amend the constitution. That’s normal for you fascists.
So you have the right to own a machine gun?

No? There are limits and regulations?

Oh...
 
So you like it to mean absolutely nothing. That is where is stands today.
Typical left-wing stupidity. “The U.S. Constitution means absolutely nothing”.

Sorry Adolf, words have meaning. And the U.S. Constitution is not only a legal document, it is the highest law in the land. Period.
He's talking about one clause in one Amendment.

Are you stupid or dishonest
 
Leave the second amendment as it is, Technology has no bearing on individual rights

Tell me, what good is an Organized Militia? Can the state afford such a thing? Does each state of the trillions of dollars to support, equip and man an Organized Militia in the intent of the Founding Fathers? When you can answer that to satisfaction then I will agree with you.
The Second Amendment represents what it is today… The absolute right for individual to own personal firearms. The only one that can fuck that up is the individual themselves.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State seems to be left out by you. And the last clause has also been outdated. Only 5 words still apply and even that is questionable.
The second amendment in a nutshell, personal firearm ownership shall not be infringed
Within the framework of a "Well Regulated Militia"
You’re taking it out of the context... Firearm ownership is an Individual right
 
Tell me, what good is an Organized Militia? Can the state afford such a thing? Does each state of the trillions of dollars to support, equip and man an Organized Militia in the intent of the Founding Fathers? When you can answer that to satisfaction then I will agree with you.
The Second Amendment represents what it is today… The absolute right for individual to own personal firearms. The only one that can fuck that up is the individual themselves.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State seems to be left out by you. And the last clause has also been outdated. Only 5 words still apply and even that is questionable.
The second amendment in a nutshell, personal firearm ownership shall not be infringed
Within the framework of a "Well Regulated Militia"
You’re taking it out of the context... Firearm ownership is an Individual right
Here's the entirety of the Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The "context" is the militia

And for the record...that well regulated militia is describes in elsewhere in the Constitution and it's NOT what the gun huggers claim.

Article 1 Section 8
 
What it means is that the 2nd amendment badly needs to be updated to a more modern law.
And that is a very fair opinion to have. But that is the key. Until the 2nd Amendment is legally and properly amended, I have a right to keep and bear arms.
Within Reason. Always within reason. And it's up to the various States to come up with the "Within Reason" and we all have to live with that ruling.
That may be the dumbest thing you have ever said. The U.S. Constitution does not say “within reason”. It says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Period. Without exception. And your “within reason” is an infringement.

Basically, you’re pissed off that you can’t get the votes you want to amend the constitution. That’s normal for you fascists.
So you have the right to own a machine gun?

No? There are limits and regulations?

Oh...
Yes, you can get license to own a so called “machine gun”.... it’s called a ffl license
 
What it means is that the 2nd amendment badly needs to be updated to a more modern law.
And that is a very fair opinion to have. But that is the key. Until the 2nd Amendment is legally and properly amended, I have a right to keep and bear arms.
Within Reason. Always within reason. And it's up to the various States to come up with the "Within Reason" and we all have to live with that ruling.
That may be the dumbest thing you have ever said. The U.S. Constitution does not say “within reason”. It says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Period. Without exception. And your “within reason” is an infringement.

Basically, you’re pissed off that you can’t get the votes you want to amend the constitution. That’s normal for you fascists.
So you have the right to own a machine gun?

No? There are limits and regulations?

Oh...
Yes, you can get license to own a so called “machine gun”.... it’s called a ffl license
Only if that machine gun was manufactured before 1984.

And even there...that's a REGULATION....
 
The Second Amendment represents what it is today… The absolute right for individual to own personal firearms. The only one that can fuck that up is the individual themselves.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State seems to be left out by you. And the last clause has also been outdated. Only 5 words still apply and even that is questionable.
The second amendment in a nutshell, personal firearm ownership shall not be infringed
Within the framework of a "Well Regulated Militia"
You’re taking it out of the context... Firearm ownership is an Individual right
Here's the entirety of the Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The "context" is the militia

And for the record...that well regulated militia is describes in elsewhere in the Constitution and it's NOT what the gun huggers claim.

Article 1 Section 8
You got to read it like it was then not now, the context is all about the individual. The founding fathers told England to fuck off, the Second Amendment is all about telling an overbearing government to fuck off
 
Article 1 Section 8

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

The DIck Amendment abolished the organized militia and formed the National Guard. It made allowance for an unorganized militia consisting of ONLY males under 45.
 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State seems to be left out by you. And the last clause has also been outdated. Only 5 words still apply and even that is questionable.
The second amendment in a nutshell, personal firearm ownership shall not be infringed
Within the framework of a "Well Regulated Militia"
You’re taking it out of the context... Firearm ownership is an Individual right
Here's the entirety of the Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The "context" is the militia

And for the record...that well regulated militia is describes in elsewhere in the Constitution and it's NOT what the gun huggers claim.

Article 1 Section 8
You got to read it like it was then not now, the context is all about the individual. The founding fathers told England to fuck off, the Second Amendment is all about telling an overbearing government to fuck off
In other words...you like Scalia...are making it up as you go along
 
And that is a very fair opinion to have. But that is the key. Until the 2nd Amendment is legally and properly amended, I have a right to keep and bear arms.
Within Reason. Always within reason. And it's up to the various States to come up with the "Within Reason" and we all have to live with that ruling.
That may be the dumbest thing you have ever said. The U.S. Constitution does not say “within reason”. It says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Period. Without exception. And your “within reason” is an infringement.

Basically, you’re pissed off that you can’t get the votes you want to amend the constitution. That’s normal for you fascists.
So you have the right to own a machine gun?

No? There are limits and regulations?

Oh...
Yes, you can get license to own a so called “machine gun”.... it’s called a ffl license
Only if that machine gun was manufactured before 1984.

And even there...that's a REGULATION....
I’ve sold firearms and ammo for a living for over 20 years... with a FFL license you can buy any small arms you want.
 

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