The Derek Chauvin effect/affect on law enforcement

[Hellbilly]

first of all, you folks owe the world a reasoning as to why you never talk about the violent history of George Floyd. What about that young pregnant woman who had a gun held to her stomach by Floyd. And perhaps the countless number of people who have been beating up to a pulp by Floyd. I mean, what world are you folks living in?

When it comes to the murder of George Floyd, anything he did prior is irrelevant.

 

[JoeB131]

I love how he addresses me while not addressing me...

I get real tired of reading whites talking about race pimps. This is the ultimate in irony. Whites are the original race pimps and WHITE IS A FNG RACE! So each time Trump stands up in front of a crowd talking about illegal immigrants, his ass is race pimping. And how long have white race pimped? Since the beginning of thIs country. Whites race pimped themselves into believing equal opportunity policies discriminate against whites. Whites have race pimped themselves to believe in a phantom anti white racism. Whiites race pimped themselves into opposing things like the accurate teaching of history, CRT and DEI. Whites race pimped themselves to make BLM equivalent to the KKK. So let's not talk about race pimps only when non whites have legitimate grievances that whites do not like hearing. Talk about white race pimps like Limbaugh, the college flunk out who left the world 800 million dollars richer after race pimping whites for more than 3 decades. Talk about white race pimps like the prime time line up at Fox news or almost every right wing media source. Talk about white race pimps like Elon Musk, who changed twitter into a haven for white race pimps and white race hustlers.

So your argument is that because Rush Limbaugh (who was an execrable human being) made money being a race pimp, it was okay for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to do the same?

I'm from Chicago. One of my earliest memories was my dad showing my mom how to use a gun in case riots started by Jesse Jackson spilled into our neighborhood. Why? Because this execrable POS flew up to Chicago with a bloody shirt and started a riot. I remember Al Sharpton straight up lying about police and prosecutors gang raping Tawana Brawley, or starting a riot in Crown Heights after a traffic accident. These guys got very rich, and their neighborhoods stayed awful and poor.

Everyone has legitimate grievances... but most of us don't let them take over our lives.

There is no defense for a wrongful killing by police no matter how many times they supposedly get it right.

No one said otherwise. If you are talking about Chauvin or Van Dyke or Timothy Loehman, I have no issue with you.

I do, however, have an issue in a case like Breonna Taylor, where the police were acting on legitimate evidence she was part of a drug ring, returned fire after being fired upon by her boyfriend, and ended up getting prosecuted for doing their jobs. At a certain point, they stop doing their jobs. Then we don't have cops anymore, we have insurance adjusters.

Where are the good cops? The 2019 Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study published in The Lancet estimated that from 1980-2018, a span of 38 years, that police in the United States killed 30,800 people. During the same period, the study estimated that police killed 293,000 people worldwide. The study found that despite the U.S. having only 4 percent of the global population, American law enforcement was responsible for more than 13 percent of all police killings on planet earth. The per capita people miss this one.

Um, okay, the rest of the world doesn't have a Second Amendment, where a cop never knows when the guy they pulled over for erratic driving is going to have a gun or not. A British Cop doesn't really have to worry about being shot in the line of duty. An American cop certainly does.

Nobody black is race pimping when we talk about police beatings and killings of black people.

Except that - again- very few people are and most of them were doing something that presented a threat to the officer or civilians.

If we are talking about 1000 police killings a year out of 10 million arrests and 40 million traffic stops, that tells me the cops are getting it right 99.99% of the time.

 

[JoeB131]

Here is Floyds criminal history. His last case in front of the court was 13 years before he was murdered.

"Court documents show that Floyd was arrested nine times for charges including four charges of drug possession and distribution, two theft charges, one illegal trespass, one charge of failure to identify to a police officer and one aggravated robbery."

Six of those years he wasn't committing any crimes because he was in prison. He didn't get released from prison until 2013. So to argue that he was a solid citizen for 13 years is a bit disingenuous.

He clearly wasn't living a life on the straight and narrow, considering he was using drugs and passing counterfeit $20.00 bills.

In 2019, he was pulled over for being in an unlicensed car and was found to have illegal drugs on him, In march 2020, he overdosed on drugs and had to be hospitalized.

None of this, of course, justifies what Chauvin did or the failure of the other three officers to stop him. But the man was not a model citizen, and THIS is bullshit.

 

[Grumblenuts]

first of all, you folks owe the world a reasoning

cried Mr. Fuck The World.. with no hint of irony.

 

[Coyote]

If it is ok to kill someone, not for anything he is doing at the time but because you think he is a lowlife - where does it end?

 

[Grumblenuts]

If it is ok to kill someone, not for anything he is doing at the time but because you think he is a lowlife - where does it end?

Not necessarily because one thinks "he is a lowlife".. but perhaps for not "living a life on the straight and narrow" or "using drugs" or "for being in an unlicensed car" or "not a model citizen"?

 

[otto105]

Yep....when you prosecute officers for doing their jobs you will get less job and more of what it is they're supposed to be stopping. The new, more polite and less aggressive policies don't work. People are people...not automatons that follow lines from some psychology book.

Humans are rather ugly creatures. Not only do they have the full range of animal instincts they also dangerously have enough intelligence to figure out how to apply those instincts against all social norms for their own benefit. Give them more room for their dysfunction and That is exactly what you will get, more of the dysfunction. This is generally a hard and fast rule.

We condemn Islam for making thieves one handed citizens and yet you never hear about flash mob theft in an Islamic country.

Islam for all of its intrinsic viciousness recognizes human nature in ways the western civilizations never will.

So while we pride ourselves on civility the criminal element counts on societal support for their criminality. They can't be reformed....they have to be made to realize that they cannot survive unless they change. Only this will create change.

Derek Chauvin is a perfect example of how the new rules have failed us.

Jo

The job of the police is summary judgement on the streets?

 

[IM2]

So laws no longer matter. I say that because I know in Georgia, and in other states, the laws are pretty specific on it. You can’t claim that the bad guy you just shot, hadn’t done anything to you at this time, but you knew he was a bad guy because of what he did ten years ago.

I am reminded of the movie Naked Gun 2 1/2. Where Frank Drebbin is being honored for his 1,000th drug dealer killed. Frank stands up, and says to be honest, he backed over the last one with his car, but fortunately he turned out to be a drug dealer.

The use of force laws are pretty specific. They allow you to use the force needed at this time. Not from something a day ago, a week ago, or whatever. It has to be correct to the circumstances you are in now. That was the flaw with the arguments for the McMichael’s here in Georgia. Even if Arbury had stopped running and the cops had shown up, the McMichaels would have gone to jail for Aggravated Assault and Kidnapping under Georgia Law. Arbury had done nothing to warrant their actions, nothing he did justified their actions. You can’t just think he’s a bad guy, you have to have a reason to do something now.

The same is true of the events on that fateful day. Chauvin violated policy, broke training, and had no viable excuse for his actions. None. So by law, the fair and equitable application of law, Chauvin was wrong.

As I mentioned in a follow-up to that quoted response. The hold was authorized to allow police to get a suspect restrained. Ok. I can see that. I can even agree with it. However, the hold was not authorized beyond that, and Floyd was restrained before Chauvin got there. So going to the hold in the first place was a problem.

But it gets worse. Even if you argue that Chauvin was justified in pinning Floyd to the ground, when Floyd agreed to get in the car, Chauvin still didn’t get off of him. He stayed there. When Floyd reported he was having trouble breathing, Chauvin who was told that this hold could restrict airflow and care must be used to insure that the person can breath, stayed in position, continuing the hold.

Every step of the way, Chauvin was given the opportunity to stop breaking the law himself, and every step of the way he decided to continue.

When Floyd lost consciousness. Even if you argue that Floyd had been combative, it is difficult to argue that an unconscious man is a danger or fighting the cops. When they couldn’t find a pulse, the book said to roll the guy over and help establish an airway. Floyd wasn’t moved. Chauvin kept up with the kneeling.

So we have to create a new law to satisfy you my friend. One that says I get to do whatever I want if I can prove the bad guy was a bad guy. So if I shoot a person who was a January 6th Protestor, I just say I knew he was an Insurgent, and he was an intolerable threat right? That would be legal in your world right? We can’t talk about my actions, we have to discuss the terrible things this guy did don’t we?

The problem isn’t with the law. The problem isn’t with the way the law was applied. The problem is that the cops saw change coming and refused to really adapt to the change. They continued using the magic words, perfecting their ability to say what they were supposed to on the stand.

The supervisors were not serious about the new standards. They didn’t insist that the officers take those standards seriously. When faced with violations of the policies, they didn’t do anything but the bare minimum to cover their own asses, letting the street cops continue to play fast and loose and take all the risk.

Chauvin was too stupid to be a cop. He wasn’t smart enough to realize that the world had changed. He was too stubborn and proud to listen when the trainers of the classes he was forced to attend told him what the rules were. He was too stupid to think it through. It was a matter of time before he found himself in serious trouble, and it was his fault, and the fault of the superiors who covered up for him for many years.

Placing Chauvin on a pedestal is just as dumb. The cops are worried and not doing things they should be? Well who can blame them. The supervisors and those in charge aren’t taking any of the blame. They aren’t telling their subordinates what is really happening, and what was really happening. The cops are left to figure it out for themselves.

We’ve seen this before, many times. And not just with cops. We saw it at Abu Gharib. The officers told the enlisted to do what the CIA dolt told them to. And none of the Soldiers really listened when the laws of land warfare were explained. They didn’t listen when the regulations were explained. They sat and daydreamed. So when they got instructions, they did it. Not understanding that the CIA guy had no authority over the soldiers. He had no authority to give the soldiers orders, instructions, or recommendations. Only the chain of command can issue orders, and the CIA isn’t in it.

The soldiers went to prison for their actions. The CIA agent vanished from public view. The Officers were flagged and essentially career killed, because they didn’t do their jobs of supervising the soldiers and being aware of what was going on.

Yeah, a couple soldiers went to prison for their crimes. They earned that, even if it was unfair. But at least the Army took token action against the superiors who weren’t doing their jobs. That’s something the Police Department didn’t do.

Chauvin got the penalty he earned. The superiors should have gotten something too. Because they covered up for his misbehavior for years.

Well said.

 

[JoeB131]

Not necessarily because one thinks "he is a lowlife".. but perhaps for not "living a life on the straight and narrow" or "using drugs" or "for being in an unlicensed car" or "not a model citizen"?

No one said it was "okay to kill him".

Only that he wasn't a saint or a martyr. He was a lifetime loser who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.