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Bingo, the whole thing needs a major reset.
what we need is more dems/liberals less stupid rep-lie-tards ... that way we can educate more people and have less stupid republicans voting ... less repub-lie-tards wreacking the country
yea then we can have 50 States like the current version of my State....
That is not an answer...
ALL law abiding citizens should DEMAND that the laws protect the law abiding and FORCE ALL criminals and felons to have to resort to the black market to buy a gun. I WANT felons and criminals to have to buy a gun in a totally ILLegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.
that is the current situation. criminals cannot buy guns legally in any state. law abiding citizens can buy guns but only after a background check.
What you libs say that you want is already in force.
Cuckoo? Well, you are either being disingenuous or you are obtuse, which one is it?
The current law ONLY applies to licensed gun dealers. WHY didn't you reveal that FACT?
don't ya love these republican whiners they cry about how bad their state is then when confronter wit a simple little fact that the republican governor is the one who fucked up his precious state he goes back to discussing fingers in his ass or kiss ass
that's why we dems had a 500 billion dollar surplus when bush got elected cause we didn't pay as we go ....
There, a size more fitting of your false implication.
No, paygo had zero to do with that little fact. The fact that we had a divided government was pivotal to controlling spending for one. For another, that phantom surpluses (as the debt DID NOT DECREASE) was DIRECTLY due to an increased influx of social security monies that were not expected directly related to the dot com bubble. I realize all of this is wasted on someone like you but actually try and deal with the fact that there was more to government than your asinine and ignored measure.
so what you're saying here Clintoin didn't raise the taxes on the rich and the middle class to pay for the programs that he want to have be paid for.... that never happen right ???? Better go back and listen to all the republicans whine about how the government is going to go backward into a huge debt because clinton didn't pass any tax increases .... you see the dems did raised taxes and the rich and the middle class ... I guess by him not raising taxers to pasoy for his program is why the republicans didn't get elected in 1994 because all the voters agreed with Clinton not raising taxes ... you can hide all you want from the truth, but them pesky little facts seem to keep hitting you right between your eyes
Often times evil wins out over common sense, especially when it is well funded. So wear your support of coddling murderers, wife beaters and felons. Be proud that you revel being an accessory to those crimes. Celebrate every time another American's life is snuffed out...you earned it...
Actually, you're the one coddling murderers, wife beaters and felons by making it more difficult for their victims to protect themselves. Be proud that you revel being an accessory to those crimes. Celebrate every time another American life is snuffed out... you earned it.
I have always supported the right to bear arms. Everyone has the right to defend themselves, their family and their property.
What I will never understand is why any law abiding citizen would support allowing a safe haven to exist for murderers, felons and criminal to buy deadly weapons.
Maybe you can explain how that is a good thing for America and it's citizens?
"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus
Republican W came in to fix Slick Willy's spending orgy and then spent us into the ground, including adding a prescription drug welfare benefit to greatly expand Medicare and he raised Social Security taxes through the roof.
But W was getting us into all these military conflicts and Obama came in to fix that, so he finished Iraq according to W's timeline, expanded Afghanistan and has gotten us into more wars like Libya and now he's trying to get us into Syria.
I can't remember, what's the difference between both your pathetic parties again?
What's funnier is how you tell me I'm throwing my vote away by not voting for either of you. When you figure out how you're different, let me know.
yes you're welcome to say stupid things ...Clinton never had a surplus. You can't move budget items around, essentially stealing from Peter to pay Paul and call it a surplus.
You're welcome.
That's funny, when I purchased my guns way back in the early 90's, I had to submit to a background check then, otherwise I couldn't just buy my guns and walk out with them on the same day from Wal-Mart, so I had to return to get the guns once clearance had been established on me back then as I recall, so what are you talking about ? More stringent background checks than what already existed back then ? If so, then I can see what people are getting all upset about, otherwise where does it stop in running down the good citizen while the bad ones go right on whistling along?The statist mode boiled down to it's essence, propose invading the privacy of every law abiding gun buyer while at the same time massively increasing the centralization of power and anybody that dares to object to such a policy is immediately demonized and marginalized as "extreme". One has to wonder how any person can be so lacking in empathy and reason as to consider objections to such egregious violations of individual liberty worthy of derision.
At what point would such people object to the federal government violating the citizenry? Is there any point at which they would as long as their particular brand of politician is in power?
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." -- William F. Buckley Jr.
WOW, I really didn't have to go far to find EXACTLY what I am talking about.
Take note FA_Q2...
What is the limit of the scope of universal background checks? EXACTLY that. If you want to own a gun, you have to pass a background check. That means that if you are a felon, or have a mental illness you can't buy the gun...
HOW fucking extreme can us liberals get, who the fuck wants to stop felons from buying a gun!
Google is such a wonderful tool, [MENTION=19018]Bfgrn[/MENTION]:, you should try it instead of spouting outdated polling numbers! Those polls you cited were taken before the bill was voted on, mine are after it failed!
Game over man.
Well how about putting the blame where it belongs then, and that is on the government for not being on top of this the whole time, so where have they been for so long on the issue? Not doing their job I suppose, so do they have blood on their hands ? It's time that the right people get the blame here, and quit blaming all the wrong people, because the laws that were already on the books should have been enforced the whole time.It's a shame that you view me with utter contempt, especially over such a silly and irrational issue. I , however, will simply stick with the facts.
Extinguishing a human live via violence is certainly not a 'silly' or 'irrational' issue. It speaks to the very core of what our republic was founded on...LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You folks have put inconvenience ahead of those tenets.
The argument was made that background checks are already in place. That's true for licensed dealers ONLY.
Why is it so hard to understand that some gun sellers are gaming the system and using the gun show loophole to offer a safe haven for criminals to conveniently buy their weapons of death?
UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION INTO ILLEGAL SALES OF FIREARMS AT GUN SHOWS
Private Sellers Exploited the Gun Show Loophole
Even though private unlicensed sellers are not required to run background checks using the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check system, it is a federal felony for them to sell guns to people they have reason to believe are prohibited purchasers (such as felons or the mentally ill). In purchases attempted on 30 private sellers, the undercover investigator showed interest in buying a gun by asking about stopping power or by dry-firing the weapon. After agreeing on a price, the undercover would indicate that he probably couldn't pass a background check. At that point, the seller is required by law to refuse the sale — but only 11 out of 30 sellers did so. Investigators found private dealers who failed these integrity tests at every show, including two sellers who failed at multiple shows. In total, 19 of the 30 private sellers approached failed the integrity test.
The 11 sellers who terminated the sale confirmed that private sellers know the law. As one seller in Columbus, Ohio, explained "I mean even as a private citizen, I'm kind of allowed a certain latitude, but once you say that [you can't pass the background check], I'm kind of obligated not to sell to you. I think that's what the rules are."
The investigation also revealed that some private sellers are in fact apparently "engaged in the business" of selling firearms without a federal license, in violation of the law. For example, one seller sold to investigators at three different gun shows and acknowledged selling 348 assault rifles in less than one year.
Google is such a wonderful tool, [MENTION=19018]Bfgrn[/MENTION]:, you should try it instead of spouting outdated polling numbers! Those polls you cited were taken before the bill was voted on, mine are after it failed!
Game over man.
Often times evil wins out over common sense, especially when it is well funded. So wear your support of coddling murderers, wife beaters and felons. Be proud that you revel being an accessory to those crimes. Celebrate every time another American's life is snuffed out...you earned it...
Actually, you're the one coddling murderers, wife beaters and felons by making it more difficult for their victims to protect themselves. Be proud that you revel being an accessory to those crimes. Celebrate every time another American life is snuffed out... you earned it.
Extinguishing a human live via violence is certainly not a 'silly' or 'irrational' issue. It speaks to the very core of what our republic was founded on...LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You folks have put inconvenience ahead of those tenets.
The argument was made that background checks are already in place. That's true for licensed dealers ONLY.
Why is it so hard to understand that some gun sellers are gaming the system and using the gun show loophole to offer a safe haven for criminals to conveniently buy their weapons of death?
UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION INTO ILLEGAL SALES OF FIREARMS AT GUN SHOWS
Private Sellers Exploited the Gun Show Loophole
Even though private unlicensed sellers are not required to run background checks using the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check system, it is a federal felony for them to sell guns to people they have reason to believe are prohibited purchasers (such as felons or the mentally ill). In purchases attempted on 30 private sellers, the undercover investigator showed interest in buying a gun by asking about stopping power or by dry-firing the weapon. After agreeing on a price, the undercover would indicate that he probably couldn't pass a background check. At that point, the seller is required by law to refuse the sale but only 11 out of 30 sellers did so. Investigators found private dealers who failed these integrity tests at every show, including two sellers who failed at multiple shows. In total, 19 of the 30 private sellers approached failed the integrity test.
The 11 sellers who terminated the sale confirmed that private sellers know the law. As one seller in Columbus, Ohio, explained "I mean even as a private citizen, I'm kind of allowed a certain latitude, but once you say that [you can't pass the background check], I'm kind of obligated not to sell to you. I think that's what the rules are."
The investigation also revealed that some private sellers are in fact apparently "engaged in the business" of selling firearms without a federal license, in violation of the law. For example, one seller sold to investigators at three different gun shows and acknowledged selling 348 assault rifles in less than one year.
And all that shows is that those laws (as well as the ones proposed for furthering background checks) are ineffective. Nice work. Does nothing to bolster your opinion though so I wonder why you posted it
What is so hard to understand?
Under current law, registered dealers are required by law to run a background check on ever gun sale. It WORKS.
Under current law, unregistered dealers, known as 'private' sellers are NOT required to run a background check.
FACT: Gun sellers who claim to be occasional sellers are not required by current federal law to conduct background checks on their customers. Furthermore, there is no clear definition of how many guns a person can sell as an occasional seller it could be dozens, or even hundreds.
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) states: 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(D), (22). Those not engaged in the business of dealing guns are exempt from the licensure requirement.
So, closing the gun show loophole would not punish any law abiding gun owner.
And, as citizens, we can't stop a criminal from buying an illegal firearm from the trunk of another criminal in some dark alley.
But, that's where the criminal should be forced to buy a gun. In a totally illegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.
Here is some info on the loophole...
What is the gun show loophole?
Federal law allows people who sell guns to avoid running background checks or keeping records by calling themselves occasional sellers, and these sellers often congregate at gun shows. The loophole provides criminals with easy access to firearms without having to worry about any background checks.
- Current law requires licensed gun dealers to conduct background checks, because that is the only way to determine whether a person is eligible to buy a gun. Licensed dealers must also keep records about the buyer so ATF can trace the gun if it is recovered at a crime scene.
- The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do these checks and theres no clear definition of what qualifies as an occasional seller.[ii]
...........*ATF concluded that gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking.[iii]
- Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them without a background check.
- Gun shows linked to the Pentagon Shooting: In March 2010, John Bedell who was prohibited by law from possessing guns shot two Pentagon police officers with a gun purchased from a private seller at a Las Vegas gun show.
- Gun shows were tied to a broad range of violations, including straw purchases and the sale of kits to convert legal guns into illegal machine guns.
Solution: Require occasional sellers to run instant background checks.
Well how about putting the blame where it belongs then, and that is on the government for not being on top of this the whole time, so where have they been for so long on the issue? Not doing their job I suppose, so do they have blood on their hands ? It's time that the right people get the blame here, and quit blaming all the wrong people, because the laws that were already on the books should have been enforced the whole time.Extinguishing a human live via violence is certainly not a 'silly' or 'irrational' issue. It speaks to the very core of what our republic was founded on...LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You folks have put inconvenience ahead of those tenets.
The argument was made that background checks are already in place. That's true for licensed dealers ONLY.
Why is it so hard to understand that some gun sellers are gaming the system and using the gun show loophole to offer a safe haven for criminals to conveniently buy their weapons of death?
UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION INTO ILLEGAL SALES OF FIREARMS AT GUN SHOWS
Private Sellers Exploited the Gun Show Loophole
Even though private unlicensed sellers are not required to run background checks using the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check system, it is a federal felony for them to sell guns to people they have reason to believe are prohibited purchasers (such as felons or the mentally ill). In purchases attempted on 30 private sellers, the undercover investigator showed interest in buying a gun by asking about stopping power or by dry-firing the weapon. After agreeing on a price, the undercover would indicate that he probably couldn't pass a background check. At that point, the seller is required by law to refuse the sale but only 11 out of 30 sellers did so. Investigators found private dealers who failed these integrity tests at every show, including two sellers who failed at multiple shows. In total, 19 of the 30 private sellers approached failed the integrity test.
The 11 sellers who terminated the sale confirmed that private sellers know the law. As one seller in Columbus, Ohio, explained "I mean even as a private citizen, I'm kind of allowed a certain latitude, but once you say that [you can't pass the background check], I'm kind of obligated not to sell to you. I think that's what the rules are."
The investigation also revealed that some private sellers are in fact apparently "engaged in the business" of selling firearms without a federal license, in violation of the law. For example, one seller sold to investigators at three different gun shows and acknowledged selling 348 assault rifles in less than one year.
here's what eric Holder has told us ... what the crooks do is they get a person who has a clean record ... they go and buy all these assault rifles ... as many as they can .... in return the crooks that are having them do this pays them a tidy sum of money for doing this its not illegal for you to buy guns then turn around and sell them for a profit... yet ...then they sell those guns to crooks.... what erick Holder is trying to get passed is everybody who sells a gun to somebody has to get an back ground check done on that person buying those guns .... is this making any sense to you yet ??? cause there isn't any law yet that says private owners must do a back ground check on the person he's selling his guns to....
Republican W came in to fix Slick Willy's spending orgy and then spent us into the ground, including adding a prescription drug welfare benefit to greatly expand Medicare and he raised Social Security taxes through the roof.
But W was getting us into all these military conflicts and Obama came in to fix that, so he finished Iraq according to W's timeline, expanded Afghanistan and has gotten us into more wars like Libya and now he's trying to get us into Syria.
I can't remember, what's the difference between both your pathetic parties again?
What's funnier is how you tell me I'm throwing my vote away by not voting for either of you. When you figure out how you're different, let me know.
seems you're a tad bit deranged ...
now for the difference ...
republicans will try their best to take every dime you have ... they will steel your retirement... they will take your health care away from you .... they will go war only to serve their corporate bosses needs ... while telling you this is the patriotic thing to do ... and lie about why you are going to war ....
democrats will make sure republicans give the money back they stole from you forcing them republicans to be fair .... Dems will give you a health care plan that doesn't cost you through the nose ... and dems will only go to war when evil is really challenging your way of life and not lie to you about it ...
Some things never change...
"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman - October 13, 1948
Never said I wanted new laws created, you said this not me, where as all I want done is the laws that are on the books already, to then be enforced again. If that would have been happening this whole time, umm we wouldn't be where we are in this nation to date, but the laws have been ignored for the new sympathy for the devil in which the extreme left & right had acquired over time in America, so how's that been working out for us for the last 35 to 40 years now ? The results are hard to look at aren't they ?Yes, I agree that the laws on the books should have been enforced this whole time. You still want to add more laws though even though the laws we have are not enforced. Here's a theory, let's add a hundred more laws and pretend they will accomplish something other than more bureaucracy and less freedoms.
Anyway, why do you trust a government that refuses to enforce its own laws? It might make you feel better I suppose but it won't accomplish anything useful. Tell me, do any of the gun sellers who were mentioned in the sting do anything worse than our own government did in Fast and Furious?
All this emotional outrage and for what? It seems apparent that what you consider "inconvenience" is what I consider "freedom" but until we start focusing on poverty, gangs , broken families and failing schools then I don't really think some silly proclaimed "loop hole" is the cause of our countries ills.
Well how about putting the blame where it belongs then, and that is on the government for not being on top of this the whole time, so where have they been for so long on the issue? Not doing their job I suppose, so do they have blood on their hands ? It's time that the right people get the blame here, and quit blaming all the wrong people, because the laws that were already on the books should have been enforced the whole time.
here's what eric Holder has told us ... what the crooks do is they get a person who has a clean record ... they go and buy all these assault rifles ... as many as they can .... in return the crooks that are having them do this pays them a tidy sum of money for doing this its not illegal for you to buy guns then turn around and sell them for a profit... yet ...then they sell those guns to crooks.... what erick Holder is trying to get passed is everybody who sells a gun to somebody has to get an back ground check done on that person buying those guns .... is this making any sense to you yet ??? cause there isn't any law yet that says private owners must do a back ground check on the person he's selling his guns to....
Except that straw purchase are already illegal. Oops, guess you didn’t think that one through either.
More proof that you are all just seeking another law that is not enforceable and irrelevant.
seems you're a tad bit deranged ...
now for the difference ...
republicans will try their best to take every dime you have ... they will steel your retirement... they will take your health care away from you .... they will go war only to serve their corporate bosses needs ... while telling you this is the patriotic thing to do ... and lie about why you are going to war ....
democrats will make sure republicans give the money back they stole from you forcing them republicans to be fair .... Dems will give you a health care plan that doesn't cost you through the nose ... and dems will only go to war when evil is really challenging your way of life and not lie to you about it ...
Some things never change...
"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman - October 13, 1948
Oh whine whine whine, the democrats have been in power since 2006, 7 years, what is wrong with the country is all their doing. Remember the liberal talking points, Republicans can't win elections? Remember? Can't have it both ways even if you want to believe the problems in the country are anything but the democrats doing.
Never said I wanted new laws created, you said this not me, where as all I want done is the laws that are on the books already, to then be enforced again. If that would have been happening this whole time, umm we wouldn't be where we are in this nation to date, but the laws have been ignored for the new sympathy for the devil in which the extreme left & right had acquired over time in America, so how's that been working out for us for the last 35 to 40 years now ? The results are hard to look at aren't they ?Yes, I agree that the laws on the books should have been enforced this whole time. You still want to add more laws though even though the laws we have are not enforced. Here's a theory, let's add a hundred more laws and pretend they will accomplish something other than more bureaucracy and less freedoms.
Anyway, why do you trust a government that refuses to enforce its own laws? It might make you feel better I suppose but it won't accomplish anything useful. Tell me, do any of the gun sellers who were mentioned in the sting do anything worse than our own government did in Fast and Furious?
All this emotional outrage and for what? It seems apparent that what you consider "inconvenience" is what I consider "freedom" but until we start focusing on poverty, gangs , broken families and failing schools then I don't really think some silly proclaimed "loop hole" is the cause of our countries ills.
