The Differences Between a ruling of Liability in Civil Law and a ruling of Guilty in Criminal Law

[Robert W]

He said his insurance company had agree to pay the bicyclist. That usually happens outside of any court case. If they were in court, they were there to defend their driver, otherwise they just pay.

Do try and keep up.

I won't declare the Ins firm did not try to defend me. It was close to 40 years ago. I don't recall them defending me. But maybe they did.

 

[Robert W]

Unfotunately, the courts don't always get things right. And it doesn't help when the opposing side and/or their attorney(s) lie about the circumstances. Documentation helps - video, legally recorded audio as well as emails and other electronic data.

In this case, I did not have my camera with me and had the Judge seen the scene of the incident, it might have made my case a lot better. It was night. The main problem was he was moving fast on a bike, was not in sight, run the red light but my insurance firm paid. I would have helped my case a lot using a camera. I would show the intersection was not at 90 degrees. That the rider was hidden by a fence. That it was night. The angle of the intersection was important as it proves there was no way any driver would see a moving bicycle running a red light. The judge may have awarded him since my insurance firm showed up and the judge realized the guy would get paid by the insurance firm. My idea was for the insurance firm to defend me. I recall testifying. It is possible the insurance firm had a lawyer there but this happened close to 40 years ago and I don't recall them defending me.

 

[para bellum]

There was no pretrial since it was civil. He claimed he was injured. I was pleased I did not pay the $5,000 and the insurance firm paid it. I wish the insurance company said they would pay earlier and I would not have to show up in court.

Most civil cases have at least one pretrial hearing, but I wasn't there so it may have been the trial.

Normal process is you get a complaint, you have 30 days to answer, and if you are going to defend you state your defenses. Then you go through discovery, pretrial motions are considered, and a pretrial hearing is set to make sure everyone is ready. Then the judge sets a trial date. That process can easily take a year.

The attorney for the Ins. Co. wasn't really representing you- he was representing the Ins. Co.

He showed up because they would have been named in the suit, but his main concern wasn't to win- it was to save money for the company. It sounds a lot like he just made a deal with the other guy's attorney on the spot.

Would have been easier for everyone of they did it before any court dates, but a plaintiff does not always specify a dollar amount in the damages. In a case like that there was probably some medical expenses and a request for some additional "pain and suffering" TBD by the court.

40 years ago, there's nothing left of it. But a dismissal is different than a judgement, which can have negative impacts on your credit record. Always better if you're the defendant to get the dismissal...

Those settlements happen in the courtroom all the time- civil and criminal. Neither side wants to spend more time in court on a low-dollar lawsuit, or a low-level misdemeanor than they absolutely have to.

 

[BackAgain]

<<<sigh>>>

What is the dainty babbling about this time?

 

[BackAgain]

There is an automobile accident on a city street that involves a driver of an automobile and a bicyclist. There is an argument over who had the right of way. The bicyclist takes the driver to court. In the end, the court holds the driver of the automobile liable for injuring the bicyclist. The driver is ordered to pay damages.

Is the driver guilty of hitting the bicyclist?

Just to clarify;


As is so often the case, the dainty’s hypothetical scenario is incomplete.

 

[Robert W]

Most civil cases have at least one pretrial hearing, but I wasn't there so it may have been the trial.

Normal process is you get a complaint, you have 30 days to answer, and if you are going to defend you state your defenses. Then you go through discovery, pretrial motions are considered, and a pretrial hearing is set to make sure everyone is ready. Then the judge sets a trial date. That process can easily take a year.

The attorney for the Ins. Co. wasn't really representing you- he was representing the Ins. Co.

He showed up because they would have been named in the suit, but his main concern wasn't to win- it was to save money for the company. It sounds a lot like he just made a deal with the other guy's attorney on the spot.

Would have been easier for everyone of they did it before any court dates, but a plaintiff does not always specify a dollar amount in the damages. In a case like that there was probably some medical expenses and a request for some additional "pain and suffering" TBD by the court.

40 years ago, there's nothing left of it. But a dismissal is different than a judgement, which can have negative impacts on your credit record. Always better if you're the defendant to get the dismissal...

Those settlements happen in the courtroom all the time- civil and criminal. Neither side wants to spend more time in court on a low-dollar lawsuit, or a low-level misdemeanor than they absolutely have to.

I said it as I recall that event. I realize to the insurance person, all they are is an employee. And it might cost less for them to settle fast than to prolong it. I don't recall any pretrial.

 

[para bellum]

I said it as I recall that event. I realize to the insurance person, all they are is an employee. And it might cost less for them to settle fast than to prolong it. I don't recall any pretrial.

I don't doubt your recollection. You seemed surprised that you did not prevail, but from what you described I would be surprised if you had.

I've never had to defend a suit, but I've brought several over the years, just in the normal course of business to collect money that was owed.

The biggest mistake people make is trying to save money on a lawyer. In most civil actions the losing party pays attorney costs, and that's never cheap.

There's nothing more expensive than the second-best lawyer. It's always better to hire the very best you can get, and stick the other party with the bill!

 

[ScorpioRising007]

Interesting point about the bicyclist lawsuit.

I remember when OJ Simpson was found not guilty of the murder of Nicole Simpson in a criminal case, but found responsible for her death in a civil case. Much harder to prove guilt in a criminal case, which I always did think OJ was actually innocent of the murder after I listened to the trial.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes, I said earlier the guy showed up at my office carting legal papers. I was obliged to go to court. I was positive I would win. And got a shock.

Why would he need to show up with legal papers if he was going after an insurance claim and not coming after you personally? Did you convince your insurance company to refuse to pay him, and force him into court? Insurance claims of the type you mention rarely if ever end up in a courtroom. No need. If it's cheaper to pay out as is claimed in this thread -- then that should mean no court.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

My case favored me. Still it was CA, blacks have the upper hand and my hunch is the judge factored that in. I found out at court the insurance would pay and not punish me.

Blacks? The accident was about race?

Okay. I thought I smelled dirty laundry. Go wash your sheets.

and if your insurance company paid, your rates went up. Or do some Whites get pass on that?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

<<<sigh>>>

What is the dainty babbling about this time?

screw

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I won't declare the Ins firm did not try to defend me. It was close to 40 years ago. I don't recall them defending me. But maybe they did.

I see. You do remember hitting a young black guy with your automobile.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I don't doubt your recollection. You seemed surprised that you did not prevail, but from what you described I would be surprised if you had.

I've never had to defend a suit, but I've brought several over the years, just in the normal course of business to collect money that was owed.

The biggest mistake people make is trying to save money on a lawyer. In most civil actions the losing party pays attorney costs, and that's never cheap.

There's nothing more expensive than the second-best lawyer. It's always better to hire the very best you can get, and stick the other party with the bill!

Fool!

 

[BackAgain]

screw

Oh.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Oh.

Blow.

 

[BackAgain]

Blow.

Me.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Me.

Suck

 

[BackAgain]

Suck

Yes. You do.

 

[Robert W]

I don't doubt your recollection. You seemed surprised that you did not prevail, but from what you described I would be surprised if you had.

Maybe you don't understand yet.

I was in a powered vehicle. He was in another that he pedaled.
He drove through a red light. My movement was in the green light. He was invisible to me due to the way the road was laid out along with it hidden behind a high fence. I had no x ray vision. His problem was he ran a red light. The judge did not drive the path I drove.

 

[Robert W]

I see. You do remember hitting a young black guy with your automobile.

Bingo.