The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

[Pop23]

No, but you want them to live by yours. Hypocrite.

Mine? No, those are the laws. If you are going to open a business, be aware of the laws. Know the laws. If you can't comply with the laws, then don't open a business.

Bad laws are still laws, you are correct. Laws that discriminate against people because of their religious or personal beliefs are unconstitutional.

It is quite likely that a future SC will vacate this ruling.

They are not "bad laws." Lol. These laws protect ALL of us. The same thing is going to apply if you, as a Christian, go to a Muslim bakery, and they refuse to bake YOU a cake based on their personal belief system. You seem to think people are out to "get you." That is not the case. These laws are in place for fair business practice.

They should protect all, but sadly they don't.

Public access laws do not protect the straight couple that wish to use a gym shower together in the same way a lesbian married couple does.

The lesbians disrobe together, no law is broken, but in the SAME ROOM, the male could be arrested.

That is not the same thing at all.

I guess we will have to take your word for it?

Or you can explain how that does not make you a bigot

 

[ChrisL]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Its the law Its the law Its the law. We know that, dimwit.
But the law is unjust and we need to protest it and refuse to comply.

It is not unjust because it applies to everyone equally.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Exactly, if you get on a bus and the law says "get your black ass to the back of the bus" you MUST comply. That is the law.....

 

[ChrisL]

Mine? No, those are the laws. If you are going to open a business, be aware of the laws. Know the laws. If you can't comply with the laws, then don't open a business.

Bad laws are still laws, you are correct. Laws that discriminate against people because of their religious or personal beliefs are unconstitutional.

It is quite likely that a future SC will vacate this ruling.

They are not "bad laws." Lol. These laws protect ALL of us. The same thing is going to apply if you, as a Christian, go to a Muslim bakery, and they refuse to bake YOU a cake based on their personal belief system. You seem to think people are out to "get you." That is not the case. These laws are in place for fair business practice.

They should protect all, but sadly they don't.

Public access laws do not protect the straight couple that wish to use a gym shower together in the same way a lesbian married couple does.

The lesbians disrobe together, no law is broken, but in the SAME ROOM, the male could be arrested.

That is not the same thing at all.

I guess we will have to take your word for it?

Or you can explain how that does not make you a bigot

Because there are women's and men's locker rooms. Who knows though? Maybe soon enough you will have those co-ed showers and locker rooms.

 

[The Rabbi]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Its the law Its the law Its the law. We know that, dimwit.
But the law is unjust and we need to protest it and refuse to comply.

It is not unjust because it applies to everyone equally.

Wrong. It punishes people with religious faith. That is unjust.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Its the law Its the law Its the law. We know that, dimwit.
But the law is unjust and we need to protest it and refuse to comply.

It is not unjust because it applies to everyone equally.

ChrisL the law does NOT apply to everyone equallly

 

[ChrisL]

Wrong. It punishes people with religious faith. That is unjust.

No, because again, it applies to everyone equally. It is not a punishment for goodness sakes! It must suck to live your life feeling that you are being persecuted because a business is not allowed to discriminate.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

To be fair , 90% of gays would simply say "fuck you then" and go elsewhere as well.

The irony here is that a minority is fighting to take away the rights of another minority. I mean what percentage of bakers even give a shit about the sexual orientation of a wedding cake's recipient.

You are right. 90% of consumers don't stand up for hteir rights when they are abused by business.

Usually, because it's too much trouble. I'm still trying to squeeze $700 out of a vendor that ripped me off, but at some point, I'm probably going to have to let it slide.

We should be thankful we have that 10% that don't let them get away with it.

A) I doubt that your story is true
B) You do NOT have a right to do business with me. This is proven by the fact that there are THOUSANDS of reasons I can refuse to do business with you. If you had a RIGHT to do business with me, I could NEVER refuse you.

Instead, I have a right NOT to do business with you. A right that is violated by these PA laws

 

[ChrisL]

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Its the law Its the law Its the law. We know that, dimwit.
But the law is unjust and we need to protest it and refuse to comply.

It is not unjust because it applies to everyone equally.

Wrong. It punishes people with religious faith. That is unjust.

Okay, how does it punish you?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

lol chrisl ignores me, probably a wise decision.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Maybe he makes delicious cakes?

Nope, can't do that. It's against the law.

damn, I thought you were coming around, now you have reverted to being as dumb as a sack of frog feet.

I'm sorry, but that's how I view you too. Very ignorant.

maybe a sack of frog feet was too complimentary, how about a sack of cat shit?

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

what you don't, or won't, get is that anti discrimination goes both ways.

Businesses are not allowed to discriminate period. When someone comes in and asks you, as a public accommodation business, to bake a cake, and you refuse. They are not discriminating against you! Good grief! It's you who is discriminating against them!

You dont get this, do you?
Someone asks me to do something contrary to my relgigious beliefs and then forces me to, it's discrimination. What part of that do you fail to understand?

As a business owner choosing to cater to the general public, you put yourself in the position where that was possible. Maybe some of these businesses should promote themselves as Christian oriented businesses and the gays would stay away.
Call yourself " The Glory of God Baking Company" or some such. They may have a leg to stand on if they choose to discriminate. They could argue that their name makes it apparent that they adhere to christian values.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wrong. It punishes people with religious faith. That is unjust.

No, because again, it applies to everyone equally. It is not a punishment for goodness sakes! It must suck to live your life feeling that you are being persecuted because a business is not allowed to discriminate.

It does not affect everyone equally. It serves to punish those with religious objections. Which is unconstitutional under our system.
WHich part of that do you not get?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

damn, I thought you were coming around, now you have reverted to being as dumb as a sack of frog feet.

I'm sorry, but that's how I view you too. Very ignorant.

maybe a sack of frog feet was too complimentary, how about a sack of cat shit?

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

what you don't, or won't, get is that anti discrimination goes both ways.

Businesses are not allowed to discriminate period. When someone comes in and asks you, as a public accommodation business, to bake a cake, and you refuse. They are not discriminating against you! Good grief! It's you who is discriminating against them!

You dont get this, do you?
Someone asks me to do something contrary to my relgigious beliefs and then forces me to, it's discrimination. What part of that do you fail to understand?

As a business owner choosing to cater to the general public, you put yourself in the position where that was possible. Maybe some of these businesses should promote themselves as Christian oriented businesses and the gays would stay away.
Call yourself " The Glory of God Baking Company" or some such. They may have a leg to stand on if they choose to discriminate. They could argue that their name makes it apparent that they adhere to chtlristian

Wrong, that would not prevent anything. In fact, there is little doubt that the militant gays would TARGET such businesses.

these laws oppress freedom. There is no way around that.

Freedoms some times include the freedom to do what others find distasteful.

You would think that a group that argued that they had a right to marry even though others find it icky would get that.

 

[The Rabbi]

damn, I thought you were coming around, now you have reverted to being as dumb as a sack of frog feet.

I'm sorry, but that's how I view you too. Very ignorant.

maybe a sack of frog feet was too complimentary, how about a sack of cat shit?

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

what you don't, or won't, get is that anti discrimination goes both ways.

Businesses are not allowed to discriminate period. When someone comes in and asks you, as a public accommodation business, to bake a cake, and you refuse. They are not discriminating against you! Good grief! It's you who is discriminating against them!

You dont get this, do you?
Someone asks me to do something contrary to my relgigious beliefs and then forces me to, it's discrimination. What part of that do you fail to understand?

As a business owner choosing to cater to the general public, you put yourself in the position where that was possible. Maybe some of these businesses should promote themselves as Christian oriented businesses and the gays would stay away.
Call yourself " The Glory of God Baking Company" or some such. They may have a leg to stand on if they choose to discriminate. They could argue that their name makes it apparent that they adhere to christian values.

Hobby Lobby contains no Christian or religious references in its name.
Must suck to be wrong all the time.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm sorry, but that's how I view you too. Very ignorant.

maybe a sack of frog feet was too complimentary, how about a sack of cat shit?

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

what you don't, or won't, get is that anti discrimination goes both ways.

Businesses are not allowed to discriminate period. When someone comes in and asks you, as a public accommodation business, to bake a cake, and you refuse. They are not discriminating against you! Good grief! It's you who is discriminating against them!

You dont get this, do you?
Someone asks me to do something contrary to my relgigious beliefs and then forces me to, it's discrimination. What part of that do you fail to understand?

As a business owner choosing to cater to the general public, you put yourself in the position where that was possible. Maybe some of these businesses should promote themselves as Christian oriented businesses and the gays would stay away.
Call yourself " The Glory of God Baking Company" or some such. They may have a leg to stand on if they choose to discriminate. They could argue that their name makes it apparent that they adhere to chtlristian

Wrong, that would not prevent anything. In fact, there is little doubt that the militant gays would TARGET such businesses.

these laws oppress freedom. There is no way around that.

Freedoms some times include the freedom to do what others find distasteful.

You would think that a group that argued that they had a right to marry even though others find it icky would get that.

People somehow miss that part: Freedom means tolerating points of view you disagree with,e ven violently.

 

[ChrisL]

Bottom line, it is against the law in this particular state to discriminate based upon sexual orientation (amongst other things), and so you would be breaking the law. Don't get mad at me . . . I didn't make the laws.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Bottom line, it is against the law in this particular state to discriminate based upon sexual orientation (amongst other things), and so you would be breaking the law. Don't get mad at me . . . I didn't make the laws.

Has this dope had the balls to say whether she agrees with the law or not?

 

[ChrisL]

Wrong. It punishes people with religious faith. That is unjust.

No, because again, it applies to everyone equally. It is not a punishment for goodness sakes! It must suck to live your life feeling that you are being persecuted because a business is not allowed to discriminate.

It does not affect everyone equally. It serves to punish those with religious objections. Which is unconstitutional under our system.
WHich part of that do you not get?

Nope, it doesn't. If you are a racist, it applies to you as well. If you are a gay person, it applies to you too. The LAW in that state states that you cannot discriminate based upon sexual orientation. PERIOD.

 

[The Rabbi]

Bottom line, it is against the law in this particular state to discriminate based upon sexual orientation (amongst other things), and so you would be breaking the law. Don't get mad at me . . . I didn't make the laws.

You've made this point over and over. It doesnt wash. The law is unjust and probably unconstitutional. The bakers are right to resist it. They are martyrs in a new civil rights movement.
We shall overcome!

 

[ChrisL]

Bottom line, it is against the law in this particular state to discriminate based upon sexual orientation (amongst other things), and so you would be breaking the law. Don't get mad at me . . . I didn't make the laws.

You've made this point over and over. It doesnt wash. The law is unjust and probably unconstitutional. The bakers are right to resist it. They are martyrs in a new civil rights movement.
We shall overcome!

You would be correct if it applied to only gay people, but applies to Christians, Muslims, racists, and everyone else. The law is applied equally.