The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Me???? I'm just trying to explain American secular law to you. You still don't seem to get it though. We are not Iran. We don't prefer religious practices over fair business practices when it comes to doing business in America.

You sound like a broken record, you already posted that before. Quality, not quanity

Just trying to make you guys understand that your religious convictions are not applicable to business practices because we are a secular nation and not a theocracy. It's really quite simple. Muslims are not allowed to discriminate against you because you are a Christian. Christians are not allowed to discriminate against gays because they are gay. It's really nothing to throw temper tantrum about. It is not an "unjust" law because it applies to everyone equally.

Nobody is throwing a temper tantrum. Christians have their rights also, you seem to agree it's OK to trample all over them. The bakers should take this to court, they would have a very good case

I see temper tantrums. The hatred and ignorance is . . . unbelievable. The SAME would be applicable if a gay person refused you service. IT works the same either way. Therefore, it is not unjust. If it just applied to gays or Muslims or Christians, then the law would be unjust.

if a gay refused me service I would simply go somewhere else. The same thing the homos could have done, but there is that agenda

To be fair , 90% of gays would simply say "fuck you then" and go elsewhere as well.

The irony here is that a minority is fighting to take away the rights of another minority. I mean what percentage of bakers even give a shit about the sexual orientation of a wedding cake's recipient.

 

[The Rabbi]

why would a hetero couple want a gay baker to make their cake? Why would they want to force him, if he objected due to his sexual orientation? The gay baker should be free to only provide his products to other gays if he chooses to so limit his customers.

Maybe he makes delicious cakes?

Nope, can't do that. It's against the law.

damn, I thought you were coming around, now you have reverted to being as dumb as a sack of frog feet.

I'm sorry, but that's how I view you too. Very ignorant.

maybe a sack of frog feet was too complimentary, how about a sack of cat shit?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

what you don't, or won't, get is that anti discrimination goes both ways.

Businesses are not allowed to discriminate period. When someone comes in and asks you, as a public accommodation business, to bake a cake, and you refuse. They are not discriminating against you! Good grief! It's you who is discriminating against them!

You dont get this, do you?
Someone asks me to do something contrary to my relgigious beliefs and then forces me to, it's discrimination. What part of that do you fail to understand?

 

[ChrisL]

It just so happens that this particular state has anti-discrimination laws that apply to homosexuals. Maybe this will clear things up for some people.

What Do the Anti-Discrimination Laws Say?

At the heart of the debate is a system of anti-discrimination laws enacted by federal, state and local governments. The entire United States is covered by the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. Nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law.

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination by private businesses based on disability.

The federal law does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation, so gays are not a protected group under the federal law. However, about 20 states, including New York and California, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations based on sexual orientation. In California, you also can’t discriminate based on someone’s unconventional dress. In some states, like Arizona, there’s no state law banning discrimination against gays, but there are local laws in some cities that prohibit sexual orientation discrimination.

So, no matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

What Does It Mean to Discriminate Against Someone?

If there’s an anti-discrimination law, does that mean that a business can never refuse service to a member of a group that is protected from discrimination?

The answer is that you can refuse to serve someone even if they’re in a protected group, but the refusal can’t be arbitrary and you can’t apply it to just one group of people.

 

[The Rabbi]

You sound like a broken record, you already posted that before. Quality, not quanity

Just trying to make you guys understand that your religious convictions are not applicable to business practices because we are a secular nation and not a theocracy. It's really quite simple. Muslims are not allowed to discriminate against you because you are a Christian. Christians are not allowed to discriminate against gays because they are gay. It's really nothing to throw temper tantrum about. It is not an "unjust" law because it applies to everyone equally.

Nobody is throwing a temper tantrum. Christians have their rights also, you seem to agree it's OK to trample all over them. The bakers should take this to court, they would have a very good case

I see temper tantrums. The hatred and ignorance is . . . unbelievable. The SAME would be applicable if a gay person refused you service. IT works the same either way. Therefore, it is not unjust. If it just applied to gays or Muslims or Christians, then the law would be unjust.

if a gay refused me service I would simply go somewhere else. The same thing the homos could have done, but there is that agenda

To be fair , 90% of gays would simply say "fuck you then" and go elsewhere as well.

The irony here is that a minority is fighting to take away the rights of another minority. I mean what percentage of bakers even give a shit about the sexual orientation of a wedding cake's recipient.

90% of Muslims want to live in peace with others. It isnt the 90% that's the problem, but the others. Here militant gays are intent on stomping out any opinion that doesnt meet their approval.

 

[The Rabbi]

It just so happens that this particular state has anti-discrimination laws that apply to homosexuals. Maybe this will clear things up for some people.

What Do the Anti-Discrimination Laws Say?

At the heart of the debate is a system of anti-discrimination laws enacted by federal, state and local governments. The entire United States is covered by the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. Nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law.

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination by private businesses based on disability.

The federal law does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation, so gays are not a protected group under the federal law. However, about 20 states, including New York and California, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations based on sexual orientation. In California, you also can’t discriminate based on someone’s unconventional dress. In some states, like Arizona, there’s no state law banning discrimination against gays, but there are local laws in some cities that prohibit sexual orientation discrimination.

So, no matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

What Does It Mean to Discriminate Against Someone?

If there’s an anti-discrimination law, does that mean that a business can never refuse service to a member of a group that is protected from discrimination?

The answer is that you can refuse to serve someone even if they’re in a protected group, but the refusal can’t be arbitrary and you can’t apply it to just one group of people.

You keep bleating this "its the law" shit. You just dont get it.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I will say that people who get caught in these laws are stupid.

Just make some bullshit up, or give them a date of completion that is after their wedding date, or anything other than "sorry faggot I'm a Christian" when you KNOW the unjust law is on their side.

 

[boedicca]

It just so happens that this particular state has anti-discrimination laws that apply to homosexuals. Maybe this will clear things up for some people.

What Do the Anti-Discrimination Laws Say?

At the heart of the debate is a system of anti-discrimination laws enacted by federal, state and local governments. The entire United States is covered by the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. Nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law.

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination by private businesses based on disability.

The federal law does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation, so gays are not a protected group under the federal law. However, about 20 states, including New York and California, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations based on sexual orientation. In California, you also can’t discriminate based on someone’s unconventional dress. In some states, like Arizona, there’s no state law banning discrimination against gays, but there are local laws in some cities that prohibit sexual orientation discrimination.

So, no matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

What Does It Mean to Discriminate Against Someone?

If there’s an anti-discrimination law, does that mean that a business can never refuse service to a member of a group that is protected from discrimination?

The answer is that you can refuse to serve someone even if they’re in a protected group, but the refusal can’t be arbitrary and you can’t apply it to just one group of people.

These laws create special classes of people with Superior Rights over others. It's sad that you don't see how dangerous this is to our society.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Hey ChrisL, at one time negros had to sit at the back of the bus, that was law. Was that a just law simply b/c it WAS the law?

Duh

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

 

[ChrisL]

It just so happens that this particular state has anti-discrimination laws that apply to homosexuals. Maybe this will clear things up for some people.

What Do the Anti-Discrimination Laws Say?

At the heart of the debate is a system of anti-discrimination laws enacted by federal, state and local governments. The entire United States is covered by the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. Nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law.

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination by private businesses based on disability.

The federal law does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation, so gays are not a protected group under the federal law. However, about 20 states, including New York and California, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations based on sexual orientation. In California, you also can’t discriminate based on someone’s unconventional dress. In some states, like Arizona, there’s no state law banning discrimination against gays, but there are local laws in some cities that prohibit sexual orientation discrimination.

So, no matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

What Does It Mean to Discriminate Against Someone?

If there’s an anti-discrimination law, does that mean that a business can never refuse service to a member of a group that is protected from discrimination?

The answer is that you can refuse to serve someone even if they’re in a protected group, but the refusal can’t be arbitrary and you can’t apply it to just one group of people.

You keep bleating this "its the law" shit. You just dont get it.

Lol! It IS the law in this state. This state has anti-discrimination laws that say you cannot discriminate against a person who is gay. It's as simple as that.

 

[ChrisL]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

 

[JoeB131]

You shjould have seen the complaint and what the carpet muncher alleged. SHe was traumatized by the refusal, she wanted to call the wedding off, etc etc. What a snowflake.

I'm taking it you've never been discriminated against because of who you are.

(Usually, your personality takes care of making sure people don't like you, I suspect.)

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Why were gay bakers allowed to refuse to bake anti gay cakes? It happened.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Lol! It IS the law in this state. This state has anti-discrimination laws that say you cannot discriminate against a person who is gay. It's as simple as that.

That's not what the law says. The law says that places of public accommodation can't discriminate based on race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation. A gay baker can't discriminate against Christians, Blacks, or Straights because they are Christian, Black or Straight.


>>>>

 

[Pop23]

We know anything goes with you....

I want better for this land.

You mean, you want people, who do not share your personal beliefs, to live by your religious convictions. Sorry, not going to happen.

No, but you want them to live by yours. Hypocrite.

Mine? No, those are the laws. If you are going to open a business, be aware of the laws. Know the laws. If you can't comply with the laws, then don't open a business.

Bad laws are still laws, you are correct. Laws that discriminate against people because of their religious or personal beliefs are unconstitutional.

It is quite likely that a future SC will vacate this ruling.

They are not "bad laws." Lol. These laws protect ALL of us. The same thing is going to apply if you, as a Christian, go to a Muslim bakery, and they refuse to bake YOU a cake based on their personal belief system. You seem to think people are out to "get you." That is not the case. These laws are in place for fair business practice.

They should protect all, but sadly they don't.

Public access laws do not protect the straight couple that wish to use a gym shower together in the same way a lesbian married couple does.

The lesbians disrobe together, no law is broken, but in the SAME ROOM, the male could be arrested.

 

[JoeB131]

To be fair , 90% of gays would simply say "fuck you then" and go elsewhere as well.

The irony here is that a minority is fighting to take away the rights of another minority. I mean what percentage of bakers even give a shit about the sexual orientation of a wedding cake's recipient.

You are right. 90% of consumers don't stand up for hteir rights when they are abused by business.

Usually, because it's too much trouble. I'm still trying to squeeze $700 out of a vendor that ripped me off, but at some point, I'm probably going to have to let it slide.

We should be thankful we have that 10% that don't let them get away with it.

 

[ChrisL]

Lol! It IS the law in this state. This state has anti-discrimination laws that say you cannot discriminate against a person who is gay. It's as simple as that.

That's not what the law says. The law says that places of public accommodation can't discriminate based on race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation. A gay baker can't discriminate against Christians, Blacks, or Straights because they are Christian, Black or Straight.


>>>>

Well yes, but since this thread is focused on homosexuals, I am emphasizing that point.

 

[ChrisL]

You mean, you want people, who do not share your personal beliefs, to live by your religious convictions. Sorry, not going to happen.

No, but you want them to live by yours. Hypocrite.

Mine? No, those are the laws. If you are going to open a business, be aware of the laws. Know the laws. If you can't comply with the laws, then don't open a business.

Bad laws are still laws, you are correct. Laws that discriminate against people because of their religious or personal beliefs are unconstitutional.

It is quite likely that a future SC will vacate this ruling.

They are not "bad laws." Lol. These laws protect ALL of us. The same thing is going to apply if you, as a Christian, go to a Muslim bakery, and they refuse to bake YOU a cake based on their personal belief system. You seem to think people are out to "get you." That is not the case. These laws are in place for fair business practice.

They should protect all, but sadly they don't.

Public access laws do not protect the straight couple that wish to use a gym shower together in the same way a lesbian married couple does.

The lesbians disrobe together, no law is broken, but in the SAME ROOM, the male could be arrested.

That is not the same thing at all.

 

[Pop23]

Lol! It IS the law in this state. This state has anti-discrimination laws that say you cannot discriminate against a person who is gay. It's as simple as that.

That's not what the law says. The law says that places of public accommodation can't discriminate based on race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation. A gay baker can't discriminate against Christians, Blacks, or Straights because they are Christian, Black or Straight.


>>>>

Yet a gay gym owner can discriminate against a straight married couple that wishes only the same rights as a lesbian married couple?

 

[The Rabbi]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

No one is denying you the right to practice your faith. What is in question is how a business owner chooses to assert their faith in a manner that is not consistent with the law.

Exactly, if you go into business to accommodate the public, then you must follow the law, and that includes anti-discrimination laws. If you are a religious institution, then you are free to discriminate if it goes against your religious beliefs, but if it is just a "regular" business, then you cannot discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, or any other beliefs for that matter.

If a KKK member owned a bakery, he or she could also not discriminate against black people because that is against the law.

Its the law Its the law Its the law. We know that, dimwit.
But the law is unjust and we need to protest it and refuse to comply.