The effects of man made pollution

[konradv]

Pollution is bad, humans need to stop polluting the planet
BUT, pollution is not causing the climate of planet earth to change. The actions of humans have zero impact on the climate of our planet.

Then where is the added CO2 coming from?

 

[Redfish]

Pollution is bad, humans need to stop polluting the planet
BUT, pollution is not causing the climate of planet earth to change. The actions of humans have zero impact on the climate of our planet.

Then where is the added CO2 coming from?

first of all CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that all plant life needs in order to survive. It makes up around .039% of the atmosphere. It was .039% of the atmosphere 100 million years ago.

The tiny increases created by humans are virtually un-measureable.

You are a victim of the propaganda put out by the religion of AGW and its prophet algore.

remember the prophet algore said that by 2016 there would be no polar ice caps and florida would be under water

 

[CowboyTed]

Of course this stuff is going to happen and it is sad that it does.

but what is the solution to stopping it?

We can go back to living in caves, driving horse and buggy, etc

or we could eliminate a few Billion human beings.

I feel a lot of people in this day and age try to help in doing their part to keep our animals, fish, birds, etc from extinction and Oceans clean.

as for the Extinction of our Oceans. I find that one hard to believe.

You find it hard to believe..... oh, then clearly it won't happen.... simply because your brain doesn't compute that. Righty oh.

There are solutions to stopping it. One solution exists in various places, charging people for plastic bags, encouraging people to reuse stronger bags made out of non-oil based products. Also reducing packaging, encouraging the recycling and proper disposing of such things.

We have this in Ireland. Reduced plastic bag use by 95% practically over night... Hell all tax was collected, people just get reusable bags...

Couldn't recommend it enough, has also reduced plastic bags blowing around.

I was in a university that banned free plastic bags, and irate university students wrote in to the university newspaper to complain.... as if a university student doesn't have the brains to figure out how to get their stuff (and it wasn't even a proper supermarket, more like a slightly large convenience store) from there back home, ten minutes away.

Ireland introduced a plastic bag tax of 20 cents.... Huge complaints when introduced....

In three years and I never met a person who wants to go back... Litter dropped massively... There is calls for a similar Chewing Gum tax....

It is pretty simple you have 'Life Bags' they can be plastic or canvas bags for €1-2 each.. One in the car and one having in the kitchen..

 

[CowboyTed]

Pollution is bad, humans need to stop polluting the planet
BUT, pollution is not causing the climate of planet earth to change. The actions of humans have zero impact on the climate of our planet.

Then where is the added CO2 coming from?

first of all CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that all plant life needs in order to survive. It makes up around .039% of the atmosphere. It was .039% of the atmosphere 100 million years ago.

The tiny increases created by humans are virtually un-measureable.

You are a victim of the propaganda put out by the religion of AGW and its prophet algore.

remember the prophet algore said that by 2016 there would be no polar ice caps and florida would be under water

Sorry I am going with every major scientist in the world and every major scientific organisations...

How many peer review papers have you release on Global Climate before?

 

[konradv]

CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that all plant life needs in order to survive. It makes up around .039% of the atmosphere. It was .039% of the atmosphere 100 million years ago. The tiny increases created by humans are virtually un-measureable.
You are a victim of the propaganda put out by the religion of AGW and its prophet algore.

Four big problems with what you're saying. 1. The increases ARE measurable. 2. The absolute amount of CO2 isn't what's important; it's the % increase. 3. What happened 100 million years ago is irrelevant. What's important is what increases in CO2 and other GHGs are doing TODAY. 4. Those who know the science, discuss it; those who don't talk about Gore.

 

[Wilbur Right]

AL GORE.....the DEFINItIVE expert on global warming.........for Republicans anyway.

they talk about him all the time.

If Al said it was gonna happen and it didnt. Well whats that tell you??

 

[Redfish]

Pollution is bad, humans need to stop polluting the planet
BUT, pollution is not causing the climate of planet earth to change. The actions of humans have zero impact on the climate of our planet.

Then where is the added CO2 coming from?

first of all CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that all plant life needs in order to survive. It makes up around .039% of the atmosphere. It was .039% of the atmosphere 100 million years ago.

The tiny increases created by humans are virtually un-measureable.

You are a victim of the propaganda put out by the religion of AGW and its prophet algore.

remember the prophet algore said that by 2016 there would be no polar ice caps and florida would be under water

Sorry I am going with every major scientist in the world and every major scientific organisations...

How many peer review papers have you release on Global Climate before?

actually that so-called scientific community is roughly 50/50 on man made climate change. The 50% that support it are doing their studies on government funded grants and contracts--------------do ya think the govt might have told them what results they expected in exchange for their money?

get over the "peer reviewed" bullshit. That is a meaningless bullshit talking point.

 

[Redfish]

AL GORE.....the DEFINItIVE expert on global warming.........for Republicans anyway.

they talk about him all the time.

If Al said it was gonna happen and it didnt. Well whats that tell you??

He lied and he has gotten obscenely wealthy on the backs of you fools.

 

[Redfish]

CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that all plant life needs in order to survive. It makes up around .039% of the atmosphere. It was .039% of the atmosphere 100 million years ago. The tiny increases created by humans are virtually un-measureable.
You are a victim of the propaganda put out by the religion of AGW and its prophet algore.

Four big problems with what you're saying. 1. The increases ARE measurable. 2. The absolute amount of CO2 isn't what's important; it's the % increase. 3. What happened 100 million years ago is irrelevant. What's important is what increases in CO2 and other GHGs are doing TODAY. 4. Those who know the science, discuss it; those who don't talk about Gore.

water vapor is a greenhouse gas, clearly the most prevalent one. Should be ban clouds?

its amazing how ignorant some of you are.

If you are really concerned about CO2, stop exhaling.

 

[konradv]

actually that so-called scientific community is roughly 50/50 on man made climate change. The 50% that support it are doing their studies on government funded grants and contracts--------------do ya think the govt might have told them what results they expected in exchange for their money? get over the "peer reviewed" bullshit. That is a meaningless bullshit talking point.

It isn't even close to 50-50. Where do you think the people who deny AGW are getting their money? Do you think energy companies give a shit about peer review? They just want their people to go out and muddy the waters. At least the proponents do research. The deniers just sling mud.

 

[konradv]

water vapor is a greenhouse gas, clearly the most prevalent one. Should be ban clouds? its amazing how ignorant some of you are. If you are really concerned about CO2, stop exhaling.

Can't really argue the science so you have to fall back on "quit breathing"?!?! Guess what? More CO2, more heat, more water vapor. Chew on that for a while and study the science, instead of just parroting whatever you heard someone else say.

 

[CowboyTed]

water vapor is a greenhouse gas, clearly the most prevalent one. Should be ban clouds? its amazing how ignorant some of you are. If you are really concerned about CO2, stop exhaling.

Can't really argue the science so you have to fall back on "quit breathing"?!?! Guess what? More CO2, more heat, more water vapor. Chew on that for a while and study the science, instead of just parroting whatever you heard someone else say.

Redfish,

Has still to provide the peer review paper to back up his research... This is the crap these guys get up to...

Redfish, have you any science behind your grand theories?

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's a self correcting system, more or less, and it will self correct by killing of human beings. Is this your suggestion to life? Make as much money for yourself now so your grandchildren (or whoever they may be) can suffer seeing the world die around them?

Nope, I'm just facing the reality of human nature. A single human is capable of great of things but as soon as you get more than a handful of 'em together they become a wholly different organism, let's call it homo assholus and that creature exploits everything it can get it's paws on without regard to the super ego's opinions on the matter.

This is the definition of selfishness.

Tell that to the Chinese, Indians and the rest of the developing world, they want what the West has, they want hyper-consumerism, SUV's, McMansions, 1,000 acre shopping malls and all the rest of it and they represent more than half the worlds population, you think they're going to forgo all that just because we're suddenly enlightened and want to preach the gospel of "Yeah I know we did it but you're not allowed to" ? It's the height of arrogance and hypocrisy to think they're going to buy into that sermon, they're going to sign the worthless treaties we put in front of them and then flip us the bird when it comes time to put rubber to the road.

Putting that aside take a long hard look at the current trajectory of global civilization, do you really think that the environment is tops on the priorities list? If you do consider what a "clean" environment is going to be worth when we're in Dark Ages V2.0, it's about priorities, civilization first, habitat second.

So preach the gospel if it makes you feel better, heck go out and pitch in on the clean up efforts if you're ambitious (I have myself and it was a good experience) but don't fool yourself into thinking that you're "saving the planet" from mankind, the planet doesn't need us to save it, we need to focus on saving ourselves from ourselves.

So you're just facing up to the reality that we're killing this planet for profit? Right, got it.

The Chinese are actually aiming to reduce pollution. The US is a first world country, other countries will NOT do something unless the US and the first world takes the lead in reducing pollution. The US turning around to poor countries and telling them to reduce their pollution first is just typical of the selfishness that is part of US society. Unfortunately the Chinese are also as selfish as the US and in the future it's not going to get much better, their only saving grace is that they don't have democracy which means the govt tells the people what to do.

I didn't say I was saving the planet from mankind. What I'm trying to say is that we need to make ourselves live more in harmony with the planet we're on.

 

[bripat9643]

Of course this stuff is going to happen and it is sad that it does.

but what is the solution to stopping it?

We can go back to living in caves, driving horse and buggy, etc

or we could eliminate a few Billion human beings.

I feel a lot of people in this day and age try to help in doing their part to keep our animals, fish, birds, etc from extinction and Oceans clean.

as for the Extinction of our Oceans. I find that one hard to believe.

The US does not dump trash in the ocean. However, we have no control over what other countries do. Frigidwierdo is preaching to the wrong audience.

Also, all that crap about ocean acidification and coral bleaching is another hoax. It's been debunked numerous times.

 

[bripat9643]

Of course this stuff is going to happen and it is sad that it does.

but what is the solution to stopping it?

We can go back to living in caves, driving horse and buggy, etc

or we could eliminate a few Billion human beings.

I feel a lot of people in this day and age try to help in doing their part to keep our animals, fish, birds, etc from extinction and Oceans clean.

as for the Extinction of our Oceans. I find that one hard to believe.

You find it hard to believe..... oh, then clearly it won't happen.... simply because your brain doesn't compute that. Righty oh.

There are solutions to stopping it. One solution exists in various places, charging people for plastic bags, encouraging people to reuse stronger bags made out of non-oil based products. Also reducing packaging, encouraging the recycling and proper disposing of such things.

We have this in Ireland. Reduced plastic bag use by 95% practically over night... Hell all tax was collected, people just get reusable bags...

Couldn't recommend it enough, has also reduced plastic bags blowing around.

I was in a university that banned free plastic bags, and irate university students wrote in to the university newspaper to complain.... as if a university student doesn't have the brains to figure out how to get their stuff (and it wasn't even a proper supermarket, more like a slightly large convenience store) from there back home, ten minutes away.

Garbage in American is incinerated or buried in land fills, so the war on plastic grocery bags is a total waste of time and energy.

 

[Rustic]

So, there's been a lot of debate (and quite a bit of insulting) going on within this forum about man made climate change.

I'm not talking man made climate change here. I'm talking only about the effects of man made pollution. The main reason for this is the biggest topic here isn't the air, or temperature change, it's about the oceans.

Rubbish haul found in stomach of dead whale in Taiwan

The first point is this article which I stumbled across.

"Rubbish haul found in stomach of dead whale in Taiwan"

"Taiwanese marine biologists have discovered a mass of plastic bags and fishing net in the stomach of a dead whale, underlying the dangers posed by floating ocean trash."

Pretty depressing stuff. The amount of rubbish in the oceans is incredible. It's so bad that there are floating masses of the stuff, killing sea life, destroying eco-systems and generally being not great.

Here's a map of the trash in the Pacific.


There are plenty of ways of rubbish, toxic waste and all sorts of things getting into the oceans, via rivers, but also direct dumping into the oceans.

However one of the biggest problems in the oceans is to do with the CO2 that is pumped into the air. While everyone is talking about CO2 causing climate change etc, people are not looking much at the fact that the oceans absorb a lot of the CO2 we're throwing into the air.

Here's a chart that shows that dust concentration, mainly pollution, has caused a massive impact on corals in the Caribbean.

Ocean acidification is a major problem.

The whole of the ocean is being changed.

Ocean acidification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Current rates of ocean acidification have been compared with the greenhouse event at the Paleocene–Eocene boundary (about 55 million years ago) when surface ocean temperatures rose by 5–6 degrees Celsius. No catastrophe was seen in surface ecosystems, yet bottom-dwelling organisms in the deep ocean experienced a major extinction. "

So, what we're looking at is a potential extinction of the oceans.

"The current acidification is on a path to reach levels higher than any seen in the last 65 million years,[39] and the rate of increase is about ten times the rate that preceded the Paleocene–Eocene mass extinction. "

What impact will this then have on the world we live in?

Just a lobby for controlling people, just like Obamacare...
Lol

 

[NightFox]

So you're just facing up to the reality that we're killing this planet for profit? Right, got it.

Pretty much, although I wouldn't say "for profit", I would say more along the lines of "naked greed" and "creature comforts" .

The Chinese are actually aiming to reduce pollution.

Such as? All I've seen them do is sign treaties agreeing to do vague somethings in the far future, I've seen no indication that they're willing to expose themselves to any risk when it comes to becoming a full fledged member of the first world.

The US is a first world country, other countries will NOT do something unless the US and the first world takes the lead in reducing pollution. The US turning around to poor countries and telling them to reduce their pollution first is just typical of the selfishness that is part of US society. Unfortunately the Chinese are also as selfish as the US and in the future it's not going to get much better, their only saving grace is that they don't have democracy which means the govt tells the people what to do.

I can agree with that although I would say that it's not so simple as "govt tells people what to do", the Chinese Government has a very tight rope to walk with respect to raising the standard of living of it's citizens, in other words they fear the torches and pitchforks just as much as any other government does.

I didn't say I was saving the planet from mankind

That was more of general rant directed at the environmentalist poster boys, not you, sorry if sounded like it was directed toward you personally.

What I'm trying to say is that we need to make ourselves live more in harmony with the planet we're on.

That would be good but from my vantage point I can't see that we've figured out how to live in harmony with each other yet, so being harmony with the planet is way too much to expect at this point IMHO.

 

[Rustic]

So, there's been a lot of debate (and quite a bit of insulting) going on within this forum about man made climate change.

I'm not talking man made climate change here. I'm talking only about the effects of man made pollution. The main reason for this is the biggest topic here isn't the air, or temperature change, it's about the oceans.

Rubbish haul found in stomach of dead whale in Taiwan

The first point is this article which I stumbled across.

"Rubbish haul found in stomach of dead whale in Taiwan"

"Taiwanese marine biologists have discovered a mass of plastic bags and fishing net in the stomach of a dead whale, underlying the dangers posed by floating ocean trash."

Pretty depressing stuff. The amount of rubbish in the oceans is incredible. It's so bad that there are floating masses of the stuff, killing sea life, destroying eco-systems and generally being not great.

Here's a map of the trash in the Pacific.


There are plenty of ways of rubbish, toxic waste and all sorts of things getting into the oceans, via rivers, but also direct dumping into the oceans.

However one of the biggest problems in the oceans is to do with the CO2 that is pumped into the air. While everyone is talking about CO2 causing climate change etc, people are not looking much at the fact that the oceans absorb a lot of the CO2 we're throwing into the air.

Here's a chart that shows that dust concentration, mainly pollution, has caused a massive impact on corals in the Caribbean.

Ocean acidification is a major problem.

The whole of the ocean is being changed.

Ocean acidification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Current rates of ocean acidification have been compared with the greenhouse event at the Paleocene–Eocene boundary (about 55 million years ago) when surface ocean temperatures rose by 5–6 degrees Celsius. No catastrophe was seen in surface ecosystems, yet bottom-dwelling organisms in the deep ocean experienced a major extinction. "

So, what we're looking at is a potential extinction of the oceans.

"The current acidification is on a path to reach levels higher than any seen in the last 65 million years,[39] and the rate of increase is about ten times the rate that preceded the Paleocene–Eocene mass extinction. "

What impact will this then have on the world we live in?

 

[NightFox]

Garbage in American is incinerated or buried in land fills, so the war on plastic grocery bags is a total waste of time and energy.

Naw, not a waste of time, it gives 'em something to do instead of spending all their time picking tax payer pockets........

 

[Rustic]

It's a self correcting system, more or less, and it will self correct by killing of human beings. Is this your suggestion to life? Make as much money for yourself now so your grandchildren (or whoever they may be) can suffer seeing the world die around them?

Nope, I'm just facing the reality of human nature. A single human is capable of great of things but as soon as you get more than a handful of 'em together they become a wholly different organism, let's call it homo assholus and that creature exploits everything it can get it's paws on without regard to the super ego's opinions on the matter.

This is the definition of selfishness.

Tell that to the Chinese, Indians and the rest of the developing world, they want what the West has, they want hyper-consumerism, SUV's, McMansions, 1,000 acre shopping malls and all the rest of it and they represent more than half the worlds population, you think they're going to forgo all that just because we're suddenly enlightened and want to preach the gospel of "Yeah I know we did it but you're not allowed to" ? It's the height of arrogance and hypocrisy to think they're going to buy into that sermon, they're going to sign the worthless treaties we put in front of them and then flip us the bird when it comes time to put rubber to the road.

Putting that aside take a long hard look at the current trajectory of global civilization, do you really think that the environment is tops on the priorities list? If you do consider what a "clean" environment is going to be worth when we're in Dark Ages V2.0, it's about priorities, civilization first, habitat second.

So preach the gospel if it makes you feel better, heck go out and pitch in on the clean up efforts if you're ambitious (I have myself and it was a good experience) but don't fool yourself into thinking that you're "saving the planet" from mankind, the planet doesn't need us to save it, we need to focus on saving ourselves from ourselves.

So you're just facing up to the reality that we're killing this planet for profit? Right, got it.

The Chinese are actually aiming to reduce pollution. The US is a first world country, other countries will NOT do something unless the US and the first world takes the lead in reducing pollution. The US turning around to poor countries and telling them to reduce their pollution first is just typical of the selfishness that is part of US society. Unfortunately the Chinese are also as selfish as the US and in the future it's not going to get much better, their only saving grace is that they don't have democracy which means the govt tells the people what to do.

I didn't say I was saving the planet from mankind. What I'm trying to say is that we need to make ourselves live more in harmony with the planet we're on.

Cry me a river, red pill or blue pill??
Control your own lives, ours are none of your concern...
Lol