The End of the Christian Right

[Dragon]

A moral people will not support an amoral government. You can parse the terms of morality any way you want. That's nothing but a faint, very faint, hope that there is some degree on which two opposing sides can find common ground. There is no "new consensus". There is some government totalitarianism on the way they think it ought to be. That oppression has not changed many minds.

You are mistaken.

Poll: Women's Movement Worthwhile - CBS News

Poll: Majority of Americans Say Premarital Sex Morally Acceptable - Beliefnet.com

Americans Evenly Divided on Morality of Homosexuality

Americans say gays are ok | Believe It or Not | a Chron.com blog

Minds HAVE changed. And they are still changing.

 

[Katzndogz]

As you have pointed out, there are deep political and economic divisions as well as moral divsions. And really, those articles are mostly to convince people that they are out of the loop if they don't jump on the transformation bandwagon. I don't believe them for an instant. If you read religious publications you would find articles and polls saying the exact opposite. If you saw the right to life march this past weekend you would wonder where the support for legal abortions went.

So, we have moral and religious divisions. Economic and political divisions. We have nothing. There is no point on which compromise can be reached on any level at all. It isn't like this is uncharted territory, this has all happened before. Some educators say it is part of the lifecycle of civilizations. This nation is not united on any issue. Much less on a moral platform.

I understand your fear. This has always been such a strong country. We were number one for a long time, over 200 years.

 

[Dr.Drock]

As you have pointed out, there are deep political and economic divisions as well as moral divsions. And really, those articles are mostly to convince people that they are out of the loop if they don't jump on the transformation bandwagon. I don't believe them for an instant. If you read religious publications you would find articles and polls saying the exact opposite. If you saw the right to life march this past weekend you would wonder where the support for legal abortions went.

So, we have moral and religious divisions. Economic and political divisions. We have nothing. There is no point on which compromise can be reached on any level at all. It isn't like this is uncharted territory, this has all happened before. Some educators say it is part of the lifecycle of civilizations. This nation is not united on any issue. Much less on a moral platform.

I understand your fear. This has always been such a strong country. We were number one for a long time, over 200 years.

All the differences you list make you think less of america, and make me think more of it.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, it's typical that progressives think more of America when she fails.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Yes, it's typical that progressives think more of America when she fails.

Regulated standard of morals+abortions illegal+gay marriage illegal=Iran




I'm just here celebrating the differences between our country and theirs.

 

[koshergrl]

You're confusing morality with theocracy. Sorry about that.

 

[Katzndogz]

It's not whether or not an individual supports either side. It's that these sides are insurmountable! No matter which side you're on, there isn't enough of whatever other side remains to keep the country strong.

Half the country is alienated from the other half. At least the liberals fully and firmly believe they are in the majority and its safe to marginalize and trivialize what they think is the minority. It's not. They believe that if only they can be oppressive enough, they can force Christians into being liberals. They can't.

 

[Dragon]

As you have pointed out, there are deep political and economic divisions as well as moral divsions. And really, those articles are mostly to convince people that they are out of the loop if they don't jump on the transformation bandwagon. I don't believe them for an instant. If you read religious publications you would find articles and polls saying the exact opposite.

Post some of them, please.

If you saw the right to life march this past weekend you would wonder where the support for legal abortions went.

No, I would only have it confirmed that a substantial minority of the population is anti-choice on that issue, and some of them are quite vehement about it. I already knew that.

So, we have moral and religious divisions. Economic and political divisions. We have nothing. There is no point on which compromise can be reached on any level at all. It isn't like this is uncharted territory, this has all happened before.

Yes: in our own history. I know you meant something different, but unlike the "cycle of civilizations" claptrap, what I'm saying here is actually demonstrable. We were divided enough at one point to fight a civil war. But there was a pretty clear majority on the issues of the time, and it was on the side that won the war (because it had more people and more resources). We have been divided in the past about votes for women, about civil rights, about labor versus capital and whether the government should intervene in the economy. We have been divided about many things, as much as we are divided now, or more so. Yet we came together, one side won the argument, and we prevailed. I see no reason to expect differently today.

What we face today, at this time, is a political and economic divide, but not a moral one, because we have already resolved that. This is how our story proceeds. At one time we have a period of upheaval centering around culture, values, morality, religion, and art. Some 40 yeas later, we have a period of civic upheaval centering around government, economics, foreign policy. By the time that period of civic upheaval comes along, the issues that divided us in the cultural upheaval are for the most part resolved. We had the Great Awakening in the 1730s-40s, and then the Revolutionary War and Constitution debate in the 1770s-80s. We had the Second Great Awakening in the 1820s-30s, and then the Civil War and Reconstruction in the 1860s-70s. We had the upheaval over the labor movement, early feminism, and temperance, which might be called the Third Great Awakening, in the 1890s-1900s, and then the Great Depression and World war II in the 1930s-40s. And now we have had the Fourth Awakening in the 1960s-70s, and are in the early stages of another crisis era.

We will resolve this. We are not in nearly as much danger today as we were in the 1860s. We are at least not putting armies in the field and fighting battles in which 30% casualty rates are the norm. And the issues in dispute, the main things we are arguing about now, are income gaps, the corrupting influence of money on politics, the energy economy of the future, and whether we can maintain the empire. We are no longer putting a lot of force and fury into arguing about gay rights or abortion or any of the other issues of the religious right. Those are, except for a few niggling details, settled.

I understand your fear.

I am not afraid. Why should I be? My side has won.

 

[koshergrl]

And your proof?

Oh, I know...because YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE!

 

[Dr.Drock]

It's not whether or not an individual supports either side. It's that these sides are insurmountable! No matter which side you're on, there isn't enough of whatever other side remains to keep the country strong.

Half the country is alienated from the other half. At least the liberals fully and firmly believe they are in the majority and its safe to marginalize and trivialize what they think is the minority. It's not. They believe that if only they can be oppressive enough, they can force Christians into being liberals. They can't.

You don't notice that in this very post you're doing exactly what you're accusing liberals of doing? Being extremely divisive.


Most liberals are christian, btw.

 

[Dr.Drock]

And your proof?

Oh, I know...because YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE!

Wait, having proof now matters to you?


I provided proof of speciation, and you ignored it.

 

[koshergrl]

No, you didn't. You SAYING it's proof, and it actually BEING proof are two different things.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No, you didn't. You SAYING it's proof, and it actually BEING proof are two different things.

When are you ever going to specifically list your disputes with the source? What is incorrect with their findings specifically?



Don't just give me the typical lazy answer of "all of it."



Specifics.

 

[HUGGY]

Yes, it's typical that progressives think more of America when she fails.

You and your idiot ignorant pie hole are the reason Newt will never be president. He was a leader in redefining dems as evil and traitors. You are the disease he created. You are a perfect example of what he unleashed.

Newt and his ilk taught you that it was ok, no...your RESPONSIBILITY, to disrespect everyone in America that did not subscribe to his views.

Fortunately many republicans are not sad little hater puppets as you are. It is unfortunate there are not enough of them.

 

[koshergrl]

You base that on what, exactly? The fact that I consistently point out the logical fallacy that constitutes the majority of usmb progressive posters' drivel?

 

[Newby]

I am not afraid. Why should I be? My side has won.

Your 'side' has won? So you're an oppressor now forcing your moral views down a minorities throat whether they like it or not? Gee, imagine that. The hypocrisy never ends with you people.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You're confusing morality with theocracy. Sorry about that.

You do not understand the intersection of both.

Puritans hung Quaker girls for preaching in the colony, and they hung and pressed to death "witches."

You want theocracy, koshergirl, and that will never happen again in America.

 

[koshergrl]

Er, no, I do not want theocracy.

And you apparently have no idea what it is.

 

[koshergrl]

PS..yes, the big bad puritans, who probably killed all of 50 people. My what a terrible, dark time...so much worse than what Stalin, Pol Pot, and your other brethren have done...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Misdefinition and deflection by koshergirl, who fell on her fanny again.

You don't even know what theocracy is, do you?