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I don't think the analogy was meant by her to suggest that people were inanimate objects, but rather her tool analogy was used to adjust or tweek the system in ways that would fix it, now with said tools representing different fixes, then I guess we need to find out what the tools represent in her mind. What does the screwdriver represent and what does the hammer represent, and then will it fix the problem or not when applied in the way that it is applied by her ? Lets say that the hammer represents single payer, would that fix the problem finally ?Hammers and screwdrivers are inanimate objects. They are tools used by people to accomplish tasks according to systems for completing said tasks. Treating people like tools to be used and tossed about against their will in an economic system is just plain evil. Why? Because people are not inanimate objects.
That's a lot guessing. But you lost me on what he/she was saying is evil. The tools, the policies, the people, or some metaphor about fixing things? Maybe you could rewrite what he/she said while still using the same terms, then we could discussion that version.. all i did was read it as written, subject verb and all that.
>> You do understand that capitalism and socialism are economic systems, right? They are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdrivers are.
Please rewrite the second sentence in context of the first sentence.
They are the economic systems. Thus he/she is saying, capitalism and socialism are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdivers are.
IMO this sentence means the author equates economic systems with tools, and as such are impossible of evil. IMO that is grossly incorrect.
Every one in the world is a socialist because every country in the world employs the socialist economic system in appropriate markets.
To a defined extent, this is true, but you go way beyond that, you're anti capitalism....redistribute the wealth kind of a person
Again the age old trick of propagandists. Speak for your scapegoats. Tell people what THEY are thinking.
I'm every bit as much a capitalist as socialist just as I bear no prejudice against either hammers or screwdrivers. The right tool for the right job.
You've been led to your place of ignorance by capitalist propaganda drooling over markets in which there is no competition. Nirvana for them, hell for the consumers.
There is no bigger obstacle to make more money regardless of the cost to others than competition.
I guess you just have to be a liberal to understand all the nuances of feeling, to compare people to a hammer and screwdriver.I don't think the analogy was meant by her to suggest that people were inanimate objects, but rather her tool analogy was used to adjust or tweek the system in ways that would fix it, now with said tools representing different fixes, then I guess we need to find out what the tools represent in her mind. What does the screwdriver represent and what does the hammer represent, and then will it fix the problem or not when applied in the way that it is applied by her ? Lets say that the hammer represents single payer, would that fix the problem finally ?
That's a lot guessing. But you lost me on what he/she was saying is evil. The tools, the policies, the people, or some metaphor about fixing things? Maybe you could rewrite what he/she said while still using the same terms, then we could discussion that version.. all i did was read it as written, subject verb and all that.
>> You do understand that capitalism and socialism are economic systems, right? They are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdrivers are.
Please rewrite the second sentence in context of the first sentence.
They are the economic systems. Thus he/she is saying, capitalism and socialism are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdivers are.
IMO this sentence means the author equates economic systems with tools, and as such are impossible of evil. IMO that is grossly incorrect.
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
I don't think the analogy was meant by her to suggest that people were inanimate objects, but rather her tool analogy was used to adjust or tweek the system in ways that would fix it, now with said tools representing different fixes, then I guess we need to find out what the tools represent in her mind. What does the screwdriver represent and what does the hammer represent, and then will it fix the problem or not when applied in the way that it is applied by her ? Lets say that the hammer represents single payer, would that fix the problem finally ?
That's a lot guessing. But you lost me on what he/she was saying is evil. The tools, the policies, the people, or some metaphor about fixing things? Maybe you could rewrite what he/she said while still using the same terms, then we could discussion that version.. all i did was read it as written, subject verb and all that.
>> You do understand that capitalism and socialism are economic systems, right? They are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdrivers are.
Please rewrite the second sentence in context of the first sentence.
They are the economic systems. Thus he/she is saying, capitalism and socialism are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdivers are.
IMO this sentence means the author equates economic systems with tools, and as such are impossible of evil. IMO that is grossly incorrect.
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
Another possibility is to take the conservative approach and ignore the problem. After all, it's not yours.
If you did call 911 they would tell that they are only equipped to handle emergencies and this is no one.
You could stop and ask your neighbor if he had already called for help or if he would like to borrow your phone to call.
Or perhaps the neighbor was in a hurry to get someplace and you could offer him a ride.
I am a Conservative ... And the approach you offered is not acceptable for me ... So you would be incorrect ... Again.
I mean face it ... I didn't even think of that excuse ... You did!
That is because that is all you ever offer ... passing the responsibility off to others or the government ... It is practically second nature for you and your kind, and I bet it didn't take you a second to think up.
Being stupid enough to ask 911 to handle a problem they are obviously not equipped to handle ... Is just as stupid as asking the government to handle what they are not equipped to handle.
At least that made a dent ... And we found something to agree on ... Thank God you got that point right.
I don't have to ask my neighbor if he needs help genius ... His truck is stuck in the ditch.
It won't matter if he called someone else when I show up with the tractor and the strap ... And he will get where he needs to go a lot easier and quicker when I get his truck out of the ditch.
The only reason he would need to use my phone ... Is if he needs to call someone and tell them he is on his way.
You really are stupid aren't you ... !?!!
Edit: Progressive Liberals need to get the hell out of the world of "what-if's" ... And start living in the world of "what is".
.
To a defined extent, this is true, but you go way beyond that, you're anti capitalism....redistribute the wealth kind of a person
Again the age old trick of propagandists. Speak for your scapegoats. Tell people what THEY are thinking.
I'm every bit as much a capitalist as socialist just as I bear no prejudice against either hammers or screwdrivers. The right tool for the right job.
You've been led to your place of ignorance by capitalist propaganda drooling over markets in which there is no competition. Nirvana for them, hell for the consumers.
There is no bigger obstacle to make more money regardless of the cost to others than competition.I'm every bit as much a capitalist as socialist just as I bear no prejudice against either hammers or screwdrivers. The right tool for the right job.You certainly have made yourself completely misunderstood on every thread you've posted on at USMB that I've seen.
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
I say we use a chainsaw ... Start at the top of Government ... And work our way down.
Once we get to a rake and burn pile ... The job will be easier ... And the yard will look a lot better.
.
I don't think the analogy was meant by her to suggest that people were inanimate objects, but rather her tool analogy was used to adjust or tweek the system in ways that would fix it, now with said tools representing different fixes, then I guess we need to find out what the tools represent in her mind. What does the screwdriver represent and what does the hammer represent, and then will it fix the problem or not when applied in the way that it is applied by her ? Lets say that the hammer represents single payer, would that fix the problem finally ?
That's a lot guessing. But you lost me on what he/she was saying is evil. The tools, the policies, the people, or some metaphor about fixing things? Maybe you could rewrite what he/she said while still using the same terms, then we could discussion that version.. all i did was read it as written, subject verb and all that.
>> You do understand that capitalism and socialism are economic systems, right? They are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdrivers are.
Please rewrite the second sentence in context of the first sentence.
They are the economic systems. Thus he/she is saying, capitalism and socialism are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdivers are.
IMO this sentence means the author equates economic systems with tools, and as such are impossible of evil. IMO that is grossly incorrect.
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
I guess you just have to be a liberal to understand all the nuances of feeling, to compare people to a hammer and screwdriver.That's a lot guessing. But you lost me on what he/she was saying is evil. The tools, the policies, the people, or some metaphor about fixing things? Maybe you could rewrite what he/she said while still using the same terms, then we could discussion that version.. all i did was read it as written, subject verb and all that.
>> You do understand that capitalism and socialism are economic systems, right? They are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdrivers are.
Please rewrite the second sentence in context of the first sentence.
They are the economic systems. Thus he/she is saying, capitalism and socialism are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdivers are.
IMO this sentence means the author equates economic systems with tools, and as such are impossible of evil. IMO that is grossly incorrect.
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
You don't have to tear down our government. Just move to someplace without one.
I love it when conservatives have nothing to say except call people names.
You don't have to tear down our government. Just move to someplace without one.
Technically ... I don't have to do either ... Because I don't need anything from the government ... I just think it would be nicer if they stayed out of my business.
That way I could help more people ... Better than the government ever does ... And it would quit creating more problems that you would want to make more government fix.
.
I don't know of a single law that prevents you from helping other people. In fact, if you gave others all of your money you wouldn't have to pay taxes.
Thus my read on what you meant was correct.That's a lot guessing. But you lost me on what he/she was saying is evil. The tools, the policies, the people, or some metaphor about fixing things? Maybe you could rewrite what he/she said while still using the same terms, then we could discussion that version.. all i did was read it as written, subject verb and all that.
>> You do understand that capitalism and socialism are economic systems, right? They are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdrivers are.
Please rewrite the second sentence in context of the first sentence.
They are the economic systems. Thus he/she is saying, capitalism and socialism are no more good or evil than hammers and screwdivers are.
IMO this sentence means the author equates economic systems with tools, and as such are impossible of evil. IMO that is grossly incorrect.
Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
Economic systems are mere tools like hammers and screwdrivers. A craftsman chooses the best tool for a particular job.
To even suggest using capitalism in a market absent of competition is to open ones checkbook to "make more money regardless of the cost to others". Might as well send the corporation a blank check.
To use socialism in a market suitable for competition would be not quite as bad, but not as good as using capitalism.
Part of the scapegoating that's a big feature of Republican propaganda through Fox Opinions is to identify the tool of socialism as the devil incarnate. Why? People who don't even know what it is will fall for it, it can be associated with Democrats and through that association democrats become the devil incarnate.
Every day you see the conservatives lined up in a row here goosestepping to that tune.
Good analogy A+..Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
I say we use a chainsaw ... Start at the top of Government ... And work our way down.
Once we get to a rake and burn pile ... The job will be easier ... And the yard will look a lot better.
.
She has it right, where as the powers need to be rattled here and there a bit, and this just to let them know that we the people are still in charge, and that they work for us. Problem is, is that they haven't been rattled enough lately, and therefore they have become to controlling in a dictatorship fashion now.Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
I say we use a chainsaw ... Start at the top of Government ... And work our way down.
Once we get to a rake and burn pile ... The job will be easier ... And the yard will look a lot better.
.
You don't have to tear down our government. Just move to someplace without one.
I don't know of a single law that prevents you from helping other people. In fact, if you gave others all of your money you wouldn't have to pay taxes.
There aren't any laws that keep me from using money to help people out in more ways than the government ever will.
There are laws that take my money and give it to the government ... So they can do a crappy job attempting to fix a problem they make ... So you can feel better about doing nothing.
And people like me pay taxes when we make money ... Not just when the government wants to take more of it ... But people like you wouldn't know that.
Just so you know ... You can reduce your taxes by giving money away ... But you cannot eliminate all your taxes by giving money away ... And if you do give your money away, whoever you give it to still has to pay taxes on it.
You think the government is going to let people get away with giving away money that would leave the government broke ... Hell no.
.
Are you an anarchist too?
Thus my read on what you meant was correct.Maybe PMZ will expand on this, and let us know what the tools represented to her. When taking a hammer out, I guess it means to do something extreme in order to get the job done, but when taking a screwdriver out it could be just to tweek it some, and this in order to get the job done, so the question is finally; what do these tools represent as far as a plan or solution goes in representation of either one ?
Economic systems are mere tools like hammers and screwdrivers. A craftsman chooses the best tool for a particular job.
To even suggest using capitalism in a market absent of competition is to open ones checkbook to "make more money regardless of the cost to others". Might as well send the corporation a blank check.
To use socialism in a market suitable for competition would be not quite as bad, but not as good as using capitalism.
Part of the scapegoating that's a big feature of Republican propaganda through Fox Opinions is to identify the tool of socialism as the devil incarnate. Why? People who don't even know what it is will fall for it, it can be associated with Democrats and through that association democrats become the devil incarnate.
Every day you see the conservatives lined up in a row here goosestepping to that tune.
As to your point... this is a fundamental difference between authoritarians and libertarians. You believe the evil is in using people in a bad way, I believe the evil is in using people. Said another way, you believe the ends justify the means. Correct me If I misstate your view, but I believe you have said if the ends is helping the needy it's ok to take money from peter to pay paul (I call that stealing), if the ends is making rich people even richer, it's not ok to take money from paul to pay peter (you call that stealing). The truth is they are both stealing and they are both wrong.
