The Gun Control Laws The United States Needs

[M14 Shooter]

300 civilians with guns in a Walmart. What could go wrong? They all pull out their weapons when they hear the shots.

Why do you -assume- this will happen?

Because the average civilian with a firearm has little to no training with it.

-Another- unsupportable assumption.

Why do you put forth positions that are based on nothing but your unsupportable assumptions?
Why do you thing reasoned, rational people will be swayed by same?

 

[M14 Shooter]

This class is far more than just firearm safety. If a civilian is to be as knowledgeable and well trained as those in the military and police force on things pertaining to firearms, then the extra time is well deserved. Just as important, it will deter many civilians from getting a gun since many will not want to take a 3 month class on firearms. This serves the objective of reducing the number of firearms among the civilian population.

For no rational reason.

 

[U2Edge]

01. Attend three month class on firearms

It does not take three months to learn firearm safety. It takes half a day.

This class is far more than just firearm safety. If a civilian is to be as knowledgeable and well trained as those in the military and police force on things pertaining to firearms, then the extra time is well deserved. Just as important, it will deter many civilians from getting a gun since many will not want to take a 3 month class on firearms. This serves the objective of reducing the number of firearms among the civilian population.

Not even the military gets a three month class on small arms. Again, half a day. Then some time on the firing range once in a while.

You could not create a three month class if you tried.

When I was at ROTC Basic Camp at Fort Knox in the summer of 1996, we had some classes every week for six weeks on various firearms mainly the M-16A2. A good bit of time at 4 or 5 different shooting ranges at Fort Knox as well which is apart of the class. I qualified as a sharpshooter, just one level below the highest of Expert. Only one person in my platoon got the Expert level.

 

[M14 Shooter]

For no rational reason whatsoever.

There is no rational reason for a civilian to own a handgun that can kill 36 people and injure another 30, in minutes.

I accept your concession, that you cannot provide a rational reason for the restrictions you want.

I have multiple times. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

False.
Your "rational reasons" rest on logical and factual fallacies - and as such, are both irrational and unsound.
You cannot demonstrate the necessity and efficacy of the restrictions you seek, and thus, there's no rational reason to implement them.

According to you.

You mean according to the fact you have yet to demonstrate the necessity and efficacy of the restrictions you seek - as you have, not once, made these demonstrations, even though you have been challenged to do so innumerable times.

Not according to other countries that have already implemented these policies

I will again ask you to demonstrate the necessary relationship between the gun laws of these countries and their lower gun violence rates; you will again fail to do so.

and many in Police and Security services in the United States who state such policies would make their work at protecting the public much easier.

Like yours, their unsupportable opinions mean nothing .

 

[M14 Shooter]

When I was at ROTC Basic Camp at Fort Knox in the summer of 1996...

Never happened.

 

[g5000]

The Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) is 12 hours.

 

[g5000]

01. Attend three month class on firearms

It does not take three months to learn firearm safety. It takes half a day.

This class is far more than just firearm safety. If a civilian is to be as knowledgeable and well trained as those in the military and police force on things pertaining to firearms, then the extra time is well deserved. Just as important, it will deter many civilians from getting a gun since many will not want to take a 3 month class on firearms. This serves the objective of reducing the number of firearms among the civilian population.

Not even the military gets a three month class on small arms. Again, half a day. Then some time on the firing range once in a while.

You could not create a three month class if you tried.

When I was at ROTC Basic Camp at Fort Knox in the summer of 1996, we had some classes every week for six weeks on various firearms mainly the M-16A2. A good bit of time at 4 or 5 different shooting ranges at Fort Knox as well which is apart of the class. I qualified as a sharpshooter, just one level below the highest of Expert. Only one person in my platoon got the Expert level.

Those classes are one hour each week. That's six hours.

Half a day.

Not counting the range time of another hour each.

Like I said. You could not create a three month course if you tried. Even your six hours of training, which covered weapons not available to the public, was spread over just a month and a half.

 

[U2Edge]

How about a machine gun then? A grenade launcher? An Anti-Tank Guided Weapon? A Tank? A Howitzer? Where do you draw the line on this so called "Fundamental right"?

There is nothing in the second amendment that says you need more than a shotgun or Air Rifle. Both are more accurate and deadly than anything available in the late 18th century.

Those are all weapons considered to be dangerous and unusual, their possession is not entitled to Constitutional protections.

Handguns are considered to be in common use, their possession is entitled to Constitutional protections.

As such citizens are not required to justify possessing handguns; citizens are not required to justify exercising the right to self-defense.

And until such time as the Supreme Court makes a determination as to the status of AR 15s – in common use or dangerous and unusual – citizens are not required to justify possessing an AR 15, or using them pursuant to the right to self-defense.

The Virginia TECH mass shooter used a handgun to kill 30 people and injure 26 more in just 11 minutes from 9:40 AM to 9:51 AM back in 2007 in a class room building. He killed two people before he entered the classroom building. 32 dead, THIRD WORST MASS shooting in U.S. history! The weapon of choice was a HANDGUN!

Explain to me why a civilian needs a weapon that can KILL over 3 dozen people within minutes?

There are many reasons why it was successful then and why it would fail today and end up with less than 5 body counts.

Really, what reasons do those happen to be? You can still buy the handguns that the Virginia Tech shooter used. All it takes is the right target after that. A similar mass shooter could repeat the same body count at Virginia Tech at any McDonalds during lunch hour around noon. The list of good targets is massive.

That same shooter will be brought down in no less than a minute and a half at that Mickey Ds. Using a handgun, he's going to be able to go through one mag, maybe two. And that's it. In order to do a high body count, he's going to need to bring an AR with at least 4 extra mags. And then he might have 2 minutes before he's brought down. Today, all cop cars have ARs in the trunks and shotguns in a rack in the front. And in the case of a shooting, a cop is never more than 90 seconds away.

Well, that did not happen at Virginia Tech, and we don't live in a country where a police officer is no more than 90 seconds away from any point in the lower 48 states. Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes. This was 2007, 8 years after the lessons of Columbine massacre. The shooter has the capability and the initiative. The Police officer needs a clear line of site to hit the shooter which he may not have in a crowded McDonalds, department store, etc. He also has to positively identify the shooter. Civilian clothes and the small size of the handgun make that more difficult.

The Campus police at Virginia Tech failed to prevent the shooter from killing 30 people and injuring 26 more in less than ten minutes. All the Virginia Tech shooter had was a handgun. Without metal detectors and police officers stationed at the building or structure where the shooting happens, your not going to get the response times your claiming. A student with a handgun can also blend in with other students to avoid police.

 

[Blues Man]

Those are all weapons considered to be dangerous and unusual, their possession is not entitled to Constitutional protections.

Handguns are considered to be in common use, their possession is entitled to Constitutional protections.

As such citizens are not required to justify possessing handguns; citizens are not required to justify exercising the right to self-defense.

And until such time as the Supreme Court makes a determination as to the status of AR 15s – in common use or dangerous and unusual – citizens are not required to justify possessing an AR 15, or using them pursuant to the right to self-defense.

The Virginia TECH mass shooter used a handgun to kill 30 people and injure 26 more in just 11 minutes from 9:40 AM to 9:51 AM back in 2007 in a class room building. He killed two people before he entered the classroom building. 32 dead, THIRD WORST MASS shooting in U.S. history! The weapon of choice was a HANDGUN!

Explain to me why a civilian needs a weapon that can KILL over 3 dozen people within minutes?

There are many reasons why it was successful then and why it would fail today and end up with less than 5 body counts.

Really, what reasons do those happen to be? You can still buy the handguns that the Virginia Tech shooter used. All it takes is the right target after that. A similar mass shooter could repeat the same body count at Virginia Tech at any McDonalds during lunch hour around noon. The list of good targets is massive.

That same shooter will be brought down in no less than a minute and a half at that Mickey Ds. Using a handgun, he's going to be able to go through one mag, maybe two. And that's it. In order to do a high body count, he's going to need to bring an AR with at least 4 extra mags. And then he might have 2 minutes before he's brought down. Today, all cop cars have ARs in the trunks and shotguns in a rack in the front. And in the case of a shooting, a cop is never more than 90 seconds away.

Well, that did not happen at Virginia Tech, and we don't live in a country where a police officer is no more than 90 seconds away from any point in the lower 48 states. Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes. This was 2007, 8 years after the lessons of Columbine massacre. The shooter has the capability and the initiative. The Police officer needs a clear line of site to hit the shooter which he may not have in a crowded McDonalds, department store, etc. He also has to positively identify the shooter. Civilian clothes and the small size of the handgun make that more difficult.

The Campus police at Virginia Tech failed to prevent the shooter from killing 30 people and injuring 26 more in less than ten minutes. All the Virginia Tech shooter had was a handgun. Without metal detectors and police officers stationed at the building or structure where the shooting happens, your not going to get the response times your claiming. A student with a handgun can also blend in with other students to avoid police.

The police have no legal obligation to come to your aid so why would you want to wait for them to save you?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes.

Funny how you went from 32 - the actual number - to 60 - some number you made up for emotional effect.
So can a shotgun. You said you's allow shotguns. What's the difference?

 

[U2Edge]

The Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) is 12 hours.

Were not just talking about safety though. In order to pass the class, you need to be trained to the expert level in terms of accuracy at the shooting range. That can require more time for some people and may not be possible to achieve for some in the time allotted.

 

[U2Edge]

Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes.

Funny how you went from 32 - the actual number - to 60 - some number you made up for emotional effect.
So can a shotgun. You said you's allow shotguns. What's the difference?

60 potential deaths when you include all the injured. Shotguns give you two shots and then you have to reload. The damage you can do with a shotgun falls of dramatically with distance. A person with a Shotgun is easier to identify than someone with handgun which can easily be concealed. So a shotgun is much slower when it comes to rate of fire and loading. Does less damage at a distance and is more difficult to hide making it easier for law enforcement to identify the target.

 

[JGalt]

Our 2nd Amendment's operation is to protect a pre-existing right of the people.

Nothing has substantially changed since the 2nd's ratification that makes it invalid.

.

Our Second Amendment is about the security of our free States not natural rights. It says so in the first clause. The second clause, merely follows the first clause.

The Second Amendment is a God-given right to protect ourselves and our loved ones against any form of tyranny, whether it be criminals or an out of control government.

The Bible has alot to say about that right...

What Does the Bible Say About Defending Yourself?

Who's God gave those rights? God goes by many names including Allah, Jehovah and others. Which one gave us all those rights? Was it the Protestant God, or how about the Catholic God? In those days, they were thought to be different Gods. Or did a bunch of scholars bequeath those "Rights" in a document called the"Constitution of the United States".

There is only one God, He being the God who sacrificed his son Jesus Christ, so that all may not perish, but shall have everlasting life.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 14:6

 

[U2Edge]

The Virginia TECH mass shooter used a handgun to kill 30 people and injure 26 more in just 11 minutes from 9:40 AM to 9:51 AM back in 2007 in a class room building. He killed two people before he entered the classroom building. 32 dead, THIRD WORST MASS shooting in U.S. history! The weapon of choice was a HANDGUN!

Explain to me why a civilian needs a weapon that can KILL over 3 dozen people within minutes?

There are many reasons why it was successful then and why it would fail today and end up with less than 5 body counts.

Really, what reasons do those happen to be? You can still buy the handguns that the Virginia Tech shooter used. All it takes is the right target after that. A similar mass shooter could repeat the same body count at Virginia Tech at any McDonalds during lunch hour around noon. The list of good targets is massive.

That same shooter will be brought down in no less than a minute and a half at that Mickey Ds. Using a handgun, he's going to be able to go through one mag, maybe two. And that's it. In order to do a high body count, he's going to need to bring an AR with at least 4 extra mags. And then he might have 2 minutes before he's brought down. Today, all cop cars have ARs in the trunks and shotguns in a rack in the front. And in the case of a shooting, a cop is never more than 90 seconds away.

Well, that did not happen at Virginia Tech, and we don't live in a country where a police officer is no more than 90 seconds away from any point in the lower 48 states. Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes. This was 2007, 8 years after the lessons of Columbine massacre. The shooter has the capability and the initiative. The Police officer needs a clear line of site to hit the shooter which he may not have in a crowded McDonalds, department store, etc. He also has to positively identify the shooter. Civilian clothes and the small size of the handgun make that more difficult.

The Campus police at Virginia Tech failed to prevent the shooter from killing 30 people and injuring 26 more in less than ten minutes. All the Virginia Tech shooter had was a handgun. Without metal detectors and police officers stationed at the building or structure where the shooting happens, your not going to get the response times your claiming. A student with a handgun can also blend in with other students to avoid police.

The police have no legal obligation to come to your aid so why would you want to wait for them to save you?

A policeman's job is to serve and protect the community. Societies where Police are largely responsible for security and don't face a civilian population so well armed as in the United States, creates a situation that is safer and where there are far fewer firearm deaths.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Once again for the mindless and fascists....

Mass killings have absolutely NOTHING to do with the 2nd Amendment.

No matter how many mass shootings the Left perpetrates (planned or un-planned), the American People would have to be absolute Imbeciles to allow the Left to do ANY KIND of gun buy back or comply with ANY form of Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights reduction.

We are hurtling towards tyranny at breakneck speed and the left is absolutely without a doubt going to go for your guns.

If and when they get them, they will then be free to do as they please with you. If you feel they've been peaceful and fair, then by all means get on your knees and comply.

Every country that has stripped the right to be armed away from it's people has eventually turned on them. History is REPLETE with evidence of this, and even if you were t to ignore the following FACTS:

....you can STILL witness it happening today.

Venezuela banned private gun ownership in 2012. By 2017 the Maduro regime had provided guns to over 400,000 "loyalists". By 2018 the UN was screaming about hundreds of arbitrary killings by Venezuelan security forces under the guise of "fighting crime". In April of this year, Venezuelan APC's were broadcast live on international TV RUNNING OVER CIVILIANS.

You're a goddamn fool if you think the West is "oh so enlightened" that it's governments won't turn on it's own people once it knows they can't shoot back. Need more proof? Look at the UK. Guns are all but completely banned, and they are jailing people for offensive tweets. Do you understand that? THEY ARE LITERALLY PUTTING PEOPLE IN JAIL FOR SAYING MEAN THINGS ON THE FUCKING INTERNET. You think it's gonna stop there??

It truly amazes me that we live in a time where the entirety of human knowledge and history is accessible from the palm of your hand, and there are people like you who are still so willfully FUCKING STUPID.

 

[Blues Man]

There are many reasons why it was successful then and why it would fail today and end up with less than 5 body counts.

Really, what reasons do those happen to be? You can still buy the handguns that the Virginia Tech shooter used. All it takes is the right target after that. A similar mass shooter could repeat the same body count at Virginia Tech at any McDonalds during lunch hour around noon. The list of good targets is massive.

That same shooter will be brought down in no less than a minute and a half at that Mickey Ds. Using a handgun, he's going to be able to go through one mag, maybe two. And that's it. In order to do a high body count, he's going to need to bring an AR with at least 4 extra mags. And then he might have 2 minutes before he's brought down. Today, all cop cars have ARs in the trunks and shotguns in a rack in the front. And in the case of a shooting, a cop is never more than 90 seconds away.

Well, that did not happen at Virginia Tech, and we don't live in a country where a police officer is no more than 90 seconds away from any point in the lower 48 states. Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes. This was 2007, 8 years after the lessons of Columbine massacre. The shooter has the capability and the initiative. The Police officer needs a clear line of site to hit the shooter which he may not have in a crowded McDonalds, department store, etc. He also has to positively identify the shooter. Civilian clothes and the small size of the handgun make that more difficult.

The Campus police at Virginia Tech failed to prevent the shooter from killing 30 people and injuring 26 more in less than ten minutes. All the Virginia Tech shooter had was a handgun. Without metal detectors and police officers stationed at the building or structure where the shooting happens, your not going to get the response times your claiming. A student with a handgun can also blend in with other students to avoid police.

The police have no legal obligation to come to your aid so why would you want to wait for them to save you?

A policeman's job is to serve and protect the community. Societies where Police are largely responsible for security and don't face a civilian population so well armed as in the United States, creates a situation that is safer and where there are far fewer firearm deaths.

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

The cops have no legal obligation to come to your aid

 

[Meister]

The Gun Control Laws The United States Needs

In order to purchase a firearm, an individual must do the following:

01. Attend three month class on firearms

02. Pass a written test when the class has been completed

03. Achieve at least 95% accuracy during a shooting-range test

04. Pass a Mental Health evaluation at a hospital

05. Pass a background check in which the government digs into their criminal record

06. Pass a background check involving interviews with friends and family

07. Only shotguns and Air Rifles may be purchased, no handguns

08. New magazines can only be purchased by trading in empty ones

09. When a gun owner dies, their relatives must surrender the deceased members firearms

10. Every three years, the individual must pass the above tests and investigations

You give up your firearms and I'll keep mine. Like I said earlier, you're a dangerous person,
and should not own a firearm. Somebody that doesn't know you thinks you shouldn't
own a gun.
Think about what I said and ask yourself if you agree.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Again, the Virginia Tech shooter proved that a handgun can be used to potentially kill 60 or more people in less than 10 minutes.

Funny how you went from 32 - the actual number - to 60 - some number you made up for emotional effect.
So can a shotgun. You said you's allow shotguns. What's the difference?

60 potential deaths when you include all the injured.

Oh... POTENTIAL deaths.
Round for round, shotguns are FAR more deadly than handguns - how many of those wounded at VT would have died if shot by half a round of 00 buck?

Shotguns give you two shots and then you have to reload.

You must be unaware of shotguns that hold 10, 12, 14, even 25 rounds.
How many times can a shotgun be loaded and emptied in 10 minutes?

The damage you can do with a shotgun falls of dramatically with distance.

Which does not matter in an indoor shooting like at VT and, when using slugs, fall off less than handguns.

A person with a Shotgun is easier to identify than someone with handgun which can easily be concealed.

A standard shotgun with an 18-20" barrel fits and conceals easily under a long jacket.

So a shotgun is much slower when it comes to rate of fire and loading

Over a span of 10 minutes, there is no effective difference.

A person with a shotgun can EASILY inflict the damage the VT shooter did in the same timeframe, and do so w/o trying hard - and yet, you'll allow shotguns.


Looking forward to your continued illustration of how full of shit you are.

 

[Siete]

The Gun Control Laws The United States Needs

In order to purchase a firearm, an individual must do the following:

01. Attend three month class on firearms

02. Pass a written test when the class has been completed

03. Achieve at least 95% accuracy during a shooting-range test

04. Pass a Mental Health evaluation at a hospital

05. Pass a background check in which the government digs into their criminal record

06. Pass a background check involving interviews with friends and family

07. Only shotguns and Air Rifles may be purchased, no handguns

08. New magazines can only be purchased by trading in empty ones

09. When a gun owner dies, their relatives must surrender the deceased members firearms

10. Every three years, the individual must pass the above tests and investigations

You give up your firearms and I'll keep mine. Like I said earlier, you're a dangerous person,
and should not own a firearm. Somebody that doesn't know you thinks you shouldn't
own a gun.
Think about what I said and ask yourself if you agree.

Mitch and Trump are going to pass red flag laws - turn him in.

 

[M14 Shooter]

A policeman's job is to serve and protect the community.

None of this changes the fact the police have no legal obligation to come to your aid.
Why would you wait for them to save you?