The Jewish "race"?

[Phoenall]

Sunni Man, et al,

I'm confused again!!! The population of Israel contains all four racial classifications (white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid) and ethnic groups from a multitude of countries that speak dozens of different languages. To be Jewish is to be part of an ethno-religious group (people whose members are unified by a common religious background) --- not a single racial group and not a stand-alone ethnic group.

Today, while Israel (the Jewish National Home) is the only country where the majority religion is Judaism (≈ 80%) [a monotheistic religion, with the Torah as its foundation], most of whom are a complex mix of secular or traditional Jews; there are other considerations. There are also an unofficial segment of the Jewish community that is described as part of the Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist branches of Judaism.

More importantly Israel has an additional component in the population; that of Muslims (14.6%); as well as Christians (2.1%), which are largely Greek Catholic or Greek Orthodox. The remaining 3.2% of the population is a sample of other religions.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis are not hiding behind a religion, let alone behind a racial element.

You are just throwing terms together (religion and racist) to draw the sympathy out of the audience.

(QUESTION)

What is the "psychopathic agenda" (utilize every opportunity available to do evil) you are talking about? It is the Arab Palestinian that takes every opportunity to justify Jihadist action and Armed Struggle.

Most Respectfully,
R

The resistance of the non-Jews against Jews in the area that was once the Palestinian Mandate territory is not different than the resistance of other people in similar circumstances. Why do you single Palestinians out? Arab Algerians, non-White South Africans, Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland, etc. all acted in similar fashion.

Because this section is for the Israel and Palestine area not for any other part of the world. If you cant keep on topic then find another board to infest with your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES

That doesn't make sense. What "lie" was in my post. Presenting analogous conflicts/situations is not a lie.

You have never told the truth in your life, you lie like a cheap muslim prayer rug

Please show where I have "lied".

Shall we start with your "source" documents that were nothing but an edited pamphlet by the anti semitic committee that published them ?

 

[Phoenall]

Don't you have some goats to see to, or are you now onto sheep ?

Read the Koran lately and seen how much it teaches psychopathic behaviour and barbarity ?

Phoney talking about psychopaths is hilarious. Is killing thousands of women and children every 2 years or so (as Israelis do in Gaza) less or more psychopathic than other such behavior?

Glad you find it hilarious.

I'm sure the IDF finds it hilarious, as well, when you whiny types put on the hair shirt, for Gazan civilian casualties that could have been avoided, if Hamas had the balls to position their war-assets beyond the proximity of their own civilian population, hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, like the cowards they are.

The old "blame the victim" game. Cowards are those that use F16s to bomb schools full of children.

No Abdul cowards are those that place children between them and the enemy, or hide in schools and hospitals. The same cowards that dig tunnels underneath schools and pack them with high explosives.

How long do you think the world would give Israel to seek revenge if just one of those caches of explosives were to be detonated. Me personally would allow them one year to get rid of all their grief by killing Palestinian terrorists, some others might give them for ever. But I doubt anyone would give them no time after such a cowardly act, and many people would flood Israel to help them take that revenge.

That's not what the U.S. stated. As shown in previous links.

Do you mean the one that said Fired on a rocket launcher in the proximity of the school, and not as you claim fired on a school full of children.

You wanted examples of your LIES well here is the first.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Where does it say that?

No, any group can declare themselves a sovereign state, unless the group can control the borders of the geographic area they claim as their state, at a minimum, it is not a state.

(QUESTION)

Help me out here. Where ever did you get that from?

v/r
R

 

[montelatici]

My source documents come from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive (a Jewish site), the Avalon Project (a Yale University archive) or the UN archives for the League of Nations Palestine Mandate. Source documents. None of them are antisemitic committees.

Home Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner
Avalon Project - Documents in Law History and Diplomacy
UNISPAL DOCUMENTS COLLECTION

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Where does it say that?

No, any group can declare themselves a sovereign state, unless the group can control the borders of the geographic area they claim as their state, at a minimum, it is not a state.

(QUESTION)

Help me out here. Where ever did you get that from?

v/r
R

"United States Court of Appeals, to define state in Klinghoffer v. SNC Achille Lauro:

"Entities that have a defined territory and a permanent population, that are under the control of their own government, and that engage in, or have the capacity to engage in, formal relations with other such entities."

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici,

OK ---

My source documents come from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive (a Jewish site), the Avalon Project (a Yale University archive) or the UN archives for the League of Nations Palestine Mandate. Source documents. None of them are antisemitic committees.

Home Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner
Avalon Project - Documents in Law History and Diplomacy
UNISPAL DOCUMENTS COLLECTION

(QUESTION)

• Which particular source document (out of the universe you cite) says: "any group can declare themselves a sovereign state, unless the group can control the borders of the geographic area they claim as their state, at a minimum, it is not a state?"

"Control the borders?" While all sovereignties have the right and authority to control borders, there is no requirement to control borders. In fact many countries have open borders.

Now, an occupation is different. To establish an occupation --- you must demonstrate "effective control."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici,

OK ---

My source documents come from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive (a Jewish site), the Avalon Project (a Yale University archive) or the UN archives for the League of Nations Palestine Mandate. Source documents. None of them are antisemitic committees.

Home Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner
Avalon Project - Documents in Law History and Diplomacy
UNISPAL DOCUMENTS COLLECTION

(QUESTION)

• Which particular source document (out of the universe you cite) says: "any group can declare themselves a sovereign state, unless the group can control the borders of the geographic area they claim as their state, at a minimum, it is not a state?"

"Control the borders?" While all sovereignties have the right and authority to control borders, there is no requirement to control borders. In fact many countries have open borders.

Now, an occupation is different. To establish an occupation --- you must demonstrate "effective control."

Most Respectfully,
R

A sovereign must agree to have "open border". If imposed it is not sovereign.

 

[SAYIT]

Glad you find it hilarious.

I'm sure the IDF finds it hilarious, as well, when you whiny types put on the hair shirt, for Gazan civilian casualties that could have been avoided, if Hamas had the balls to position their war-assets beyond the proximity of their own civilian population, hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, like the cowards they are.

The old "blame the victim" game. Cowards are those that use F16s to bomb schools full of children.

You mean "schools" full of weapons:

UN admits its schools in Gaza were used to store Hamas rockets - World Tribune World Tribune

GAZA CITY — The United Nations has acknowledged that its facilities in the Gaza Strip were storing Palestinian missiles and rockets.

The UN Relief and Works Agency has reported at least two incidents in which its schools were used for the storage of rockets amid the war with Israel. In both cases, the UN refused to confiscate the rockets and instead asked Hamas to retrieve the weapons.

No, there were no weapons in the UN schools that were hosting civilians. What the U.S. said was: (This was Israel's strongest ally mind you.)

“The suspicion that militants are operating nearby does not justify strikes that put at risk the lives of so many innocent civilians,”

"The State Department spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, called on Israel to do “more to meet its own standards and avoid civilian casualties”.

“The United States is appalled by today’s disgraceful shelling outside an UNRWA [United Nations Relief and Works Agency] school in Rafah sheltering some 3,000 displaced persons, in which at least 10 more Palestinian civilians were tragically killed,” Psaki said in a statement.

No one knows which "schools" were (or are) being used to store weapons but we do know that Hamas used (or uses) some or all of them as armories. We also know that Hamas located rocket launching pads in places they wanted to draw Israeli return fire:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/w...ws-rare-video-of-rocket-launch-from-gaza.html

"The video was notable because journalists have captured few images of the stealthy guerrilla fighters in recent weeks and because it appeared to show Islamist militants using a residential area to provide cover while they fire at Israel, putting civilians at risk as homemade rockets fly out and potential retaliatory strikes come back in."

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Good move, but not quite a goal.

montelatici, et al,

Where does it say that?

No, any group can declare themselves a sovereign state, unless the group can control the borders of the geographic area they claim as their state, at a minimum, it is not a state.

(QUESTION)

Help me out here. Where ever did you get that from?

v/r
R

"United States Court of Appeals, to define state in Klinghoffer v. SNC Achille Lauro:

"Entities that have a defined territory and a permanent population, that are under the control of their own government, and that engage in, or have the capacity to engage in, formal relations with other such entities."

(OBSERVATION)

The case:
Klinghoffer v. SNC Achille Lauro Ed Altri-Gestione Motonave Achille Lauro in Amministrazione Straordinaria, 937 F. 2d 44 - Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit 1991

'" National Petrochemical Co. v. M/T Stolt Sheaf,860 F.2d 551, 553 (2d Cir.1988) (quoting Restatement (Third) of the Foreign Relations Law of the United States § 201 (1987)), cert. denied,489 U.S. 1081, 109 S.Ct. 1535, 103 L.Ed.2d 840 (1989).

(COMMENT)

You will first notice that the Appellant Case you cite is not included in the universe of references you provided; but is a Federal (Antiterrorism) Case concluded under U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York - 816 F. Supp. 930 (S.D.N.Y 1993) March 29, 1993, predating the UN Resolution that Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders; A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012 by nearly two decades.

And while it is true that courts generally disavowed Palestinian Statehood during the litigation process (1990 thru 1993), the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) did argue that they were a state and protected under sovereign immunity. Subsequent to that case, the UN Resolution on the status of Palestine was adopted and clearly stipulated the territory for the "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967."

Having said that, there are a number of nations, including Israel, that would prefer the holding of the US Federal Court. For one reason, is not others, that if the recognition of statehood were to be withdrawn, then the State of Palestine could not join the International Criminal Court (ICC) or sign as a party any treaty or convention. But today, that is not the case.

Like so many argument made by the proPalestinian consortium, they often refuse to move forward with the times, as the situation and facts of the conflict evolve.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Lipush]

Following on from a comment in a recent post regarding the Rabbi who stated "Jews are not a race, we are a religious group."

Then how can comments made about the struggle in the ME supporting Palestinians be considered racist against Jews?

Surely race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to. However, I can become Jewish...

Yes, DNA testing has been carried out to try and prove that Jews are a race, however, there does appear to be quite some differential between the various Jewish 'races'...

I believe that there are some Jews who are offended by the thought of Judaism as being consider a 'race'... Preferring to be considered a 'religious family'.

Jews are ethnic group, not a race.

When the Rabbi said it, I guess he ment the Jewish religion, and thus, religious Jews.

 

[montelatici]

Only schools closed for the summer that were not housing refugees held weapons as U.S. intelligence knew full well. That's why the U.S. criticized Israel, which it never does normally.

"“The United States is appalled by today’s disgraceful shelling outside an UNRWA school in Rafah sheltering some 3,000 displaced persons,” said State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki, in a statement issued Sunday. “The coordinates of the school, like all UN facilities in Gaza, have been repeatedly communicated to the Israeli Defense Forces. We once again stress that Israel must do more to meet its own standards and avoid civilian casualties.”

UN Chief Condemns Gaza School Attack as Israel Says Battle Ongoing

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

A true border is a "line segment" with two sides.

Not that this discussion has anything to do with the topic of discussion.

A sovereign must agree to have "open border". If imposed it is not sovereign.

(COMMENT)

Any border can have different controls on both sides (one for entry and one for exit controls).

These controls are set by two different nations; the one you exit and the one you enter.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Lipush]

ON Wiki Judaism is listed under religion, as they come from all nations and they spread out over the globe, so those born in Israel are Israelites, like those born in Palestine are Palestinians, and those born in France are French. We have Orthodox Jews, Secular Jews, Atheist Jews, and since one can become Jewish like one can become RC , it has to be a religion. I imagine its like RC, if one is born to a RC in the old days one is brought up in the RC faith so a child takes the mothers faith. Now days its still so, till the time a child grows and makes his own decision. Where do Jews originate from, good question, they don't really know either I don't think.

Yes and know. Jews consider themselves a nationality, or ethnic group. By the Hebrew law, you cannot detach from it even if you "convert" to other group or faith. As an example. I can convert myself to Christianity 100 times over and go live in Madagascar, getting married to a Christian man, have my kids become devoted catholics... Still they will be considered Jews by the people of Israel. it's passed by mother, yes, but even if you "decide to leave" by the religious rules you're still considered "in the club" and so will your kids.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Good move, but not quite a goal.

montelatici, et al,

Where does it say that?

No, any group can declare themselves a sovereign state, unless the group can control the borders of the geographic area they claim as their state, at a minimum, it is not a state.

(QUESTION)

Help me out here. Where ever did you get that from?

v/r
R

"United States Court of Appeals, to define state in Klinghoffer v. SNC Achille Lauro:

"Entities that have a defined territory and a permanent population, that are under the control of their own government, and that engage in, or have the capacity to engage in, formal relations with other such entities."

(OBSERVATION)

The case:
Klinghoffer v. SNC Achille Lauro Ed Altri-Gestione Motonave Achille Lauro in Amministrazione Straordinaria, 937 F. 2d 44 - Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit 1991

'" National Petrochemical Co. v. M/T Stolt Sheaf,860 F.2d 551, 553 (2d Cir.1988) (quoting Restatement (Third) of the Foreign Relations Law of the United States § 201 (1987)), cert. denied,489 U.S. 1081, 109 S.Ct. 1535, 103 L.Ed.2d 840 (1989).

(COMMENT)

You will first notice that the Appellant Case you cite is not included in the universe of references you provided; but is a Federal (Antiterrorism) Case concluded under U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York - 816 F. Supp. 930 (S.D.N.Y 1993) March 29, 1993, predating the UN Resolution that Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders; A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012 by nearly two decades.

And while it is true that courts generally disavowed Palestinian Statehood during the litigation process (1990 thru 1993), the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) did argue that they were a state and protected under sovereign immunity. Subsequent to that case, the UN Resolution on the status of Palestine was adopted and clearly stipulated the territory for the "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967."

Having said that, there are a number of nations, including Israel, that would prefer the holding of the US Federal Court. For one reason, is not others, that if the recognition of statehood were to be withdrawn, then the State of Palestine could not join the International Criminal Court (ICC) or sign as a party any treaty or convention. But today, that is not the case.

Like so many argument made by the proPalestinian consortium, they often refuse to move forward with the times, as the situation and facts of the conflict evolve.

Most Respectfully,
R

Like so much of your bullshit, Palestine is not a sovereign state by any definition no more than Kurdistan is a state although it has far more control over itself than Palestine. Just like all Israeli supporters, you don't let facts get in the way.

Palestine is not and never will be a sovereign state. Israel will continue to be an Apartheid state with a minority of Jews controlling a majority of non-Jews for a at least another generation or two. Eventually, Israel will become a secular state where Jews will not be advantaged legally.

 

[Lipush]

I have noticed that most Juden use either "race" or "religion" to describe themselves depending on the situation. .......

Says the guy using the gernan word "Juden" as insult to the Jewish "race".

Sod off, will you?

 

[Lipush]

Mental-city, what are you even talking about? Israel is currently with at least 85% Jews, how is "controlling majority of non-Jews" even enters as theory, here?

WTF?

 

[montelatici]

Mental-city, what are you even talking about? Israel is currently with at least 85% Jews, how is "controlling majority of non-Jews" even enters as theory, here?

WTF?

Israel controls more non-Jews than Jews. You forget the Israeli Bantustans. The South African whites claimed they were a majority in South Africa, most non-whites were citizens of the Bantustans. NIce try. By the way, even excluding the Bantustans, Jews are only 75% of the population.

 

[SAYIT]

Don't you have some goats to see to, or are you now onto sheep ?

Read the Koran lately and seen how much it teaches psychopathic behaviour and barbarity ?

Phoney talking about psychopaths is hilarious. Is killing thousands of women and children every 2 years or so (as Israelis do in Gaza) less or more psychopathic than other such behavior?

Glad you find it hilarious.

I'm sure the IDF finds it hilarious, as well, when you whiny types put on the hair shirt, for Gazan civilian casualties that could have been avoided, if Hamas had the balls to position their war-assets beyond the proximity of their own civilian population, hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, like the cowards they are.

The old "blame the victim" game. Cowards are those that use F16s to bomb schools full of children.

No Abdul cowards are those that place children between them and the enemy, or hide in schools and hospitals. The same cowards that dig tunnels underneath schools and pack them with high explosives.

How long do you think the world would give Israel to seek revenge if just one of those caches of explosives were to be detonated. Me personally would allow them one year to get rid of all their grief by killing Palestinian terrorists, some others might give them for ever. But I doubt anyone would give them no time after such a cowardly act, and many people would flood Israel to help them take that revenge.

That's not what the U.S. stated. As shown in previous links.

The US never claimed that Hamas did not (and does not) put civilians in the line of fire, nor did anyone establish which "schools" were not used by Hamas to store weapons. We do know that 3 were used and for all anyone knows, every "school" in Gaza is a Hamas armory. The US State Dept only admonished Israel to consider collateral damage when responding to Hamas rocket attacks.
Why must you "pro-Palestinian" types ALWAYS lie? Is it genetic or does the truth just not fully express your mindless hate for Joooos?

 

[SAYIT]

Only schools closed for the summer that were not housing refugees held weapons as U.S. intelligence knew full well. That's why the U.S. criticized Israel, which it never does normally.

"“The United States is appalled by today’s disgraceful shelling outside an UNRWA school in Rafah sheltering some 3,000 displaced persons,” said State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki, in a statement issued Sunday. “The coordinates of the school, like all UN facilities in Gaza, have been repeatedly communicated to the Israeli Defense Forces. We once again stress that Israel must do more to meet its own standards and avoid civilian casualties.”

UN Chief Condemns Gaza School Attack as Israel Says Battle Ongoing

Those are the buildings which were found to contain Hamas weapons. Do you have any evidence others (or all) were not also used by Hamas? While you are at it, please provide a link to that "US intelligence" you claim we had.

 

[SAYIT]

Palestine is not and never will be a sovereign state. Israel will continue to be an Apartheid state with a minority of Jews controlling a majority of non-Jews for a at least another generation or two. Eventually, Israel will become a secular state where Jews will not be advantaged legally.

So you are a member of the "just-hang-in-there" cabal. Those hapless Arab "refugees" have been hearing your crap for over 60 years and they have thrown generation after generation of their kids away while awaiting your promise. Clearly you don't really give a flying camel chip for those people and are just another in a long line of Jew-hating scum hiding behind your "concern" for those poor, poor Palestinians. Carry on.