The Lazy Poor

[Againsheila]

Boo hoo. Look for a different job, somewhere else, adapt. There's a reason we're called the land of opportunity. But opportunity doesn't come to you, you go to it. That's the way it has always been. And when the work in your preferred field dries up, then you look for a different field.

I've worked most of my life. I've done a whole bunch of different things, and when I can't find what I want where I am living, then I cast my net further afield.

That's how you support your family. You don't plop down in the middle of the living room and start crying and demanding money from the government.

Make up your mind, are we suppose to get more education (many college graduates today can't find jobs) move (there are no jobs anywhere in this country really) or now it's look for a different field? Just accept the fact that it's tough to find a job in this country today, unless of course you are in the upper crust and know somebody.

Minimum wage has not gone up with inflation. We removed rungs on the ladder and we are still yelling at people and saying it's their fault they can't get a better place in life.

You do know why we have food stamps and welfare don't you? Because if we didn't the revolt would have happened long ago. No country can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

 

[koshergrl]

there are jobs, I know because I and my family and friends all work.

But we live in diverse places in order to do so.

The people I know who don't work, who claim they can't, either have zero work history, have criminal backgrounds, or they're just lazy losers who will devote 23 out of 24 hours of the day thinking up reasons why they can't do any of the things they need to do to be productive members of society.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. I haven’t seen such contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


2. "Public education is government redistribution of wealth because many low income children receive that education at little or no cost to them or their parents,

at the expense of other taxpayers who pay for it."

You've latched on to this bogus word salad as though it is a)true, and b) proves your point.


Neither is the case.


3. Glad to see that you are not repeating the lie that claimed I had recommended cancelling school for the poor.

4. For your edification:
Redistribution is a federal error.
Education is a state and local responsibility.


It's more than illustrative that you never let honesty get in the way of your pronouncements.



5. "Or you could just admit that you're wrong and that we 'socialists' blah blah blah...."

I'm never wrong. I once thought I was wrong, turns out, I was mistaken.

If using one person's taxes to pay for another person's education is not a redistribution of wealth,

then neither is using that person's taxes to pay for another person's food, shelter, heat, clothing, transportation, healthcare, or anything else that person has a use for but does not have the means to purchase himself.

You have now backed yourself into the corner of asserting that there is no such thing as the redistribution of wealth,

since you have excluded all that one would describe as such.

That leaves us with the question:

Then why are you complaining about the government redistributing wealth when by your own measure the government does no such thing?

I think the title of this thread should be changed from "The Lazy Poor" to "The Lazy Poster". Obviously "Superwoman" just didn't think this thing through.

She walked into a well designed trap.

She can't endorse 'redistribution of wealth', because that would break a rightwing cult commandment.

She can't condemn the provision of a basic education to all regardless of their ability to pay (despite that being by definition a 'redistribution of wealth', not to mention being one of the purest examples of 'socialism')

because even the looniest of loons is unlikely to even try to defend the merits of denying an education to poor children.

So what IS the poor woman to do?

1. the usual PC retort? The sharp tongued dull witted bob and weave routine?

2. Concede that, yes, the very liberal very redistributive very socialist institution of education made available to all is far superior to anything conservatism could offer in its place?

3. Filibuster by Google?

4. Give up, flee, wait a few days and then start the same thread over again, slightly reworded, but without all the brilliant refutations in this thread, unless of course we all repost them?

You make the call.

lol

 

[JoeB131]

there are jobs, I know because I and my family and friends all work.

But we live in diverse places in order to do so.

The people I know who don't work, who claim they can't, either have zero work history, have criminal backgrounds, or they're just lazy losers who will devote 23 out of 24 hours of the day thinking up reasons why they can't do any of the things they need to do to be productive members of society.

If you have a job, what are you doing here 24/7?

Are you posting when you should be working? Hmmmmmm....

 

[JoeB131]

[
I would like to see nothing more than providing a fair day's work for a fair wage. By and large, wages correspond with qualifications.

When I was young I took some jobs that paid low wages, but I never envied those who made more than I, because I realized that I had my dignity by knowing that I did my job according to the best of my abilities.

Instead bitching and complaining I did whatever I could to improve myself. Lo and behold I made better money.

You get "FAIR" if you give "FAIR".

HORSESHIT!!!!

Employers will pay you what they think they can get away with. It's why I was making better money with no experience at my current job in 2000 (after adjusting for inflation) than I do today with 13 years more experience, Six Sigma and CPIM training.

YOu know how I tell when my boss is lying to me?

His lips are moving.

You don't think it has anything to do with the stellar economy?

It has everything to do with the economy, and that's the point.

In 2000, when we had full employment under Bill Clinton, and the worst thing we had to worry about is "did the president lie about a blow job", you could get a good paying job as a Inventory Planner with minimal experience.

In 2013, meh, you can have experience and qualifications up the yin-yang, and they will still abuse the crap out of you because they can get away with it.

It's what happens when the rich buy your government... and get stupid religious rubes to vote against their own (and your) economic interests.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. This is Star Parker: "Parker was born to mostly absent parents and raised in a nonreligious home; she says she was raised "by the secular 'I'm okay, you're okay' doctrine that says people should be allowed to make their own rules and shouldn't judge other people's lives."

She lived in Japan for three years and returned to the U.S., moving to East St. Louis, Illinois, at twelve, at which point she says she "just joined right in" with the "anger and tension among blacks" in the area.[4] "I bought into the lie that there was nothing in America for me except institutional racism and glass ceilings that would keep me from getting promoted," she said.[4]

She said that after one arrest for shoplifting, her white high school guidance counselor told her "not to worry about it, because I was a 'victim of racism, lashing out at society.'" [5] After attending church at the behest of her friends, she embraced Christianity and began turning her life around.[4]"
Star Parker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




2. In her book, "Uncle Sam's Plantation," Star Parker makes the point that there are several kinds of poor people. In one particularly poignant passage, she relates her own journey as one of the 'lazy poor.'

"Let me make sure that I understand you correctly," I inquired of the welfare caseworker as I presented her with my pregnancy confirmation note from a doctor. "All I have to do for you to send me $465 a month, $176 worth of food stamps, and 100% free medical and dental assistance is keep this baby. As long as I don't have a bank account, find a job, or get married, I qualify for aid? Where do I sign up?"

3. It was like winning the lottery....I had been looking for a way to finance my laziness. Now, at 23, I had finally found a source of income that did not require work.






4. I would steal money from my mother's purse...steal property and money from neighbors or local merchants....I lusted after the finest designer labels...and blamed racism, my parents, and any other excuse society would allow me to use for my laziness. My attitude of victimization, coupled with my unwillingness to develop the habits necessary to attain financial independence, led me further into poverty.

a. The root cause of this poverty is the perverse, counterproductive incentives arising from the welfare system itself. Charles Murray’s “Losing Ground” documented this effect using social indicators such as work, marriage, legitimacy, crime, and alcohol and drug abuse, and showing how the massive increase in government welfare programs worsened the problem.

b. Since productive activity not making any economic sense because of the work disincentives of the welfare plantation, other kinds of activities proliferate: drug and alcohol abuse, crime, recreational sex, illegitimacy, and family breakup are the new social norms, as does the culture of violence. From Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” chapter five.





5. The lazy poor are the one poverty group for which a central government must facilitate welfare services through guilt and manipulation of the rest of the populace. This is because taxpayers generally despise this poverty group because, no matter how expensive the welfare programs are, the lazy poor always want more. They depend on the pity of liberal politicians to redistribute wealth, so that they can get what they want with little effort and no personal responsibility.

6. Compare this group to the economically challenged poor, whose tax payments offset most of the government benefits they might receive: no, the social consequences, and social costs due to the actions of the lazy poor are a financial drain on our entire tax system.

7. These are the "I couldn't care less" poor, the 'refuse to work' poor, and those poor who claim welfare benefits as their 'entitlement.' Some politicians believe they are doing these folks a favor by addicting them to a government-subsidized life. These are people who will be forever impoverished: they have bought the lie that poor people are poor because rich people are rich, and, therefore, they can demand that Uncle Sam fuels, or at least feels, their pain.





8. Dr. Thomas Sowell points out another sort of 'poor,' who aren't really poor. The terms ‘the rich’ and ‘the poor’ are seldom defined. Thus, there are mistakes in understanding the difference between the flow of income during a given year, and what has been accumulated. Similarly, the poor are usually defined in terms of current income, rather than how much they have or have not accumulated. Income and wealth are not the same thing. So, government definitions based on income can be misleading.
For many hand-wringing, bleeding-heat Liberals the following distinctions escape them.
Too nuanced, or requires actual thought.

a. Some who have low income, but are hardly poor are the spouse of a rich or affluent husband or wife.

b. Affluent or wealthy speculators, investors, or business owners having an off year.

c. Students who graduate in the middle of the year, and, therefore, earn half of what they would have.

d. Doctors or other professionals just starting out.

e. Those still living at home with folks who are wealthy or affluent. Or retirees in the reverse situation.
From "Economic Facts and Fallacies," Thomas Sowell



I hope it's not too late for something to be done to change the direction of this nation.

So who finances your lying bullshit?

Look at that, another post from Miss Cankor, 1942.

1. Watch your language.

2. I never lie.

3. Would you believe, the federal government: they consider me a national treasure.



Do you think you'll ever feel secure enough to actually challenge points I've raised?

 

[PoliticalChic]

[
I would like to see nothing more than providing a fair day's work for a fair wage. By and large, wages correspond with qualifications.

When I was young I took some jobs that paid low wages, but I never envied those who made more than I, because I realized that I had my dignity by knowing that I did my job according to the best of my abilities.

Instead bitching and complaining I did whatever I could to improve myself. Lo and behold I made better money.

You get "FAIR" if you give "FAIR".

HORSESHIT!!!!

Employers will pay you what they think they can get away with. It's why I was making better money with no experience at my current job in 2000 (after adjusting for inflation) than I do today with 13 years more experience, Six Sigma and CPIM training.

YOu know how I tell when my boss is lying to me?

His lips are moving.

1. "The adolescent, the Marxist, and the Liberal dream of “fairness,” brought about by the state. Silly. This would mean usurping the society decision that the skilled worker is entitled to higher pay than the unskilled. This decision is never pronounced by any authority other than the free market. It was arrived at via the interaction of human beings perfectly capable of ordering their own affairs.

2. Government cannot and will not correct itself- thus the necessity for elections. But society, convened as the free market, can and des correct itself…and quickly, ‘else the risk of impoverishment.

3. If the Leftist is interested in a more ‘fair’ redistribution of wealth, let him vote for lower taxes, and then he can distribute his now larger share of his wealth to the lesser compensated folks.

a. Illustrative of reality is the fact that the Leftist refrains from paying above the stated price for goods and services…he wants, as everyone else does, competition between said services. Only then does he stand a chance of getting a “fair” price. In his own enterprise, he strives to improve quality or lower price…’else his potential customers will take their business to others. Unless he has the power of government!"
Mamet, "The Secret Knowledge," chapter 32


4. . Money is merely the most efficient way of keeping track of the production of individuals, of their work, and the capacity of that work to benefit their fellows.
Op. Cit. chapter one.

 

[Truthmatters]

if someone is paying PC to post they are throwing money in the toilet

 

[PoliticalChic]

if someone is paying PC to post they are throwing money in the toilet

In a few minutes I'll post the OP that I promised would be dedicated to you!

Hope ya' like it.

 

[JoeB131]

[
1. "The adolescent, the Marxist, and the Liberal dream of “fairness,” brought about by the state. Silly. This would mean usurping the society decision that the skilled worker is entitled to higher pay than the unskilled. This decision is never pronounced by any authority other than the free market. It was arrived at via the interaction of human beings perfectly capable of ordering their own affairs.

....

i get the feeling you are about 20 something and have never held a job in the real world. Because that's really the only way to explain your disconnect from the reality of the American workplace.

Come on, PC. How many civilian jobs have you held? How many companies have you worked for.

I've been working since I was 16. Do you know what I've found in 35 years of accumulated wisdom? That if they can abuse you, they will.

 

[Truthmatters]

if someone is paying PC to post they are throwing money in the toilet

In a few minutes I'll post the OP that I promised would be dedicated to you!

Hope ya' like it.

how christiany of you


Im sure jesus loves it when you ramble on about how much you hate the poor people

 

[PoliticalChic]

[
1. "The adolescent, the Marxist, and the Liberal dream of “fairness,” brought about by the state. Silly. This would mean usurping the society decision that the skilled worker is entitled to higher pay than the unskilled. This decision is never pronounced by any authority other than the free market. It was arrived at via the interaction of human beings perfectly capable of ordering their own affairs.

....

i get the feeling you are about 20 something and have never held a job in the real world. Because that's really the only way to explain your disconnect from the reality of the American workplace.

Come on, PC. How many civilian jobs have you held? How many companies have you worked for.

I've been working since I was 16. Do you know what I've found in 35 years of accumulated wisdom? That if they can abuse you, they will.

I get the feeling that you resent any folks who have done better in life than you have.

Jealousy is debilitating to one's happiness.

Bulletin:
You never had to work for anyone else.

Never.

Check out the 13th amendment.


Good luck in your new endeavors.

 

[PoliticalChic]

if someone is paying PC to post they are throwing money in the toilet

In a few minutes I'll post the OP that I promised would be dedicated to you!

Hope ya' like it.

how christiany of you


Im sure jesus loves it when you ramble on about how much you hate the poor people

Have you considered that your standing with other folks would be immensely improved if you would stick to the truth?

You'd probably have higher self-esteem, as well.

I don't hate poor people, nor have I ever said that I did.


Folks who make stuff up like that do so because the opponent has the stronger argument, and they don't stand a chance in winning the argument if they stick to the truth.

Kinda like you and I.

 

[JoeB131]

I get the feeling that you resent any folks who have done better in life than you have.

Jealousy is debilitating to one's happiness.

Bulletin:
You never had to work for anyone else.

Never.

Check out the 13th amendment.

Good luck in your new endeavors.

I resent when people lie and abuse their authority. I'm just wondering why you don't.

I think you misinterpret what the 13th Amendment was about.

It was about not letting those with wealth abuse those without wealth. We also had something called the Labor Movement.

Incidently, we have a LABOR DAY but we don't have an ENTERPENUER DAY. we also have a MEMORIAL DAY to remember those who died ending slavery. We don't have a day to celebrate the Robber Barons who exploited working people. Because those folks weren't worth celebrating.

Probably because as a people, we realize which movement was more important to making America great.

Just sayin'.

The Republican Party used to get this...

*"Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

*"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice."

*"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."---Republican President Dwight Eisenhower


Wow, you mean you had a Republican President who once used to actually value American working people.

One who didn't say shit like "I like to fire people" and "47% don't pay taxes, so I don't care about them."

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html


PC just made a complete fool out of herself here

 

[JoeB131]

[



I don't hate poor people, nor have I ever said that I did.

I.

So, ummmm, why did you start a thread entitled "the Lazy Poor" and use quote from Famous Uncle Tom Star Parker.

 

[Truthmatters]

she is dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[JoeB131]

she is dumb as a box of rocks.

Naw, actually I think she's kind of bright... just misguided.

She's actually bought into this brainwashing that the poor are poor because they are lazy and dependent on government, not that we've had a 30 year war on the middle class.

Because somehow, I doubt she remembers a time when we weren't doing that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html


PC just made a complete fool out of herself here

I'm for lettin' folks read both of our posts.

Good idea?


But....it was fun, wasn't it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I get the feeling that you resent any folks who have done better in life than you have.

Jealousy is debilitating to one's happiness.

Bulletin:
You never had to work for anyone else.

Never.

Check out the 13th amendment.

Good luck in your new endeavors.

I resent when people lie and abuse their authority. I'm just wondering why you don't.

I think you misinterpret what the 13th Amendment was about.

It was about not letting those with wealth abuse those without wealth. We also had something called the Labor Movement.

Incidently, we have a LABOR DAY but we don't have an ENTERPENUER DAY. we also have a MEMORIAL DAY to remember those who died ending slavery. We don't have a day to celebrate the Robber Barons who exploited working people. Because those folks weren't worth celebrating.

Probably because as a people, we realize which movement was more important to making America great.

Just sayin'.

The Republican Party used to get this...

*"Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

*"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice."

*"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."---Republican President Dwight Eisenhower


Wow, you mean you had a Republican President who once used to actually value American working people.

One who didn't say shit like "I like to fire people" and "47% don't pay taxes, so I don't care about them."

1. “Every individual is continually exerting himself to find out the most advantageous employment for whatever capital he can command. It is his own advantage, indeed, and not that of the society which he has in view. But the study of his own advantage naturally, or rather necessarily, leads him to prefer that employment which is most advantageous to society... He intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was not part of his intention” ― Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature & Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Vol 1


2. Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.
The Self-Employed Are the Happiest - NYTimes.com


3. Think it’s because they’re making beau coup bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers.
Salary Search | CareerBuilder.com

a. Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation - Economics - AEI

b. “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …”
Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week

c. The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. Business Development Salary | CareerBuilder.com