The Lazy Poor

[Againsheila]

You are missing the point of the OP. We aren't talking about people down on their luck trying to replace a good lost job. We are talking about those who refuse to work because they know the government will be their sugar daddy. The lazy poor. Those who are poor by choice and too lazy to fend for themselves because they know someone else will feed them while they do nothing but exist.

And when you see them on the street, how do you know the difference?

I wouldn't.......but then my job isn't to determine who would qualify for government assitance. If it WERE my job, their willingness to get an education, job training and work to support themselves when given the opportunity as opposed to those who want to be supported like their parents and grandparents before them for doing nothing but existing would be a fairly large clue of which is which though. Those who won't use assistance to better themselves and believe they deserve assisatance for life.......the lazy poor......should be cut off. It's called tough love.

They are a much smaller percentage of those on welfare than you think.

 

[koshergrl]

And when you see them on the street, how do you know the difference?

I wouldn't.......but then my job isn't to determine who would qualify for government assitance. If it WERE my job, their willingness to get an education, job training and work to support themselves when given the opportunity as opposed to those who want to be supported like their parents and grandparents before them for doing nothing but existing would be a fairly large clue of which is which though. Those who won't use assistance to better themselves and believe they deserve assisatance for life.......the lazy poor......should be cut off. It's called tough love.

They are a much smaller percentage of those on welfare than you think.

They constitute the majority.

I have gone days meeting with people where not one person was being truthful. They lie about income, they lie about who is in the household, they lie about their costs. They lie about who is the parent of their children, they lie about their alleged disabilities.

They just...lie. Because they want to get something for nothing.

 

[Againsheila]

I wouldn't.......but then my job isn't to determine who would qualify for government assitance. If it WERE my job, their willingness to get an education, job training and work to support themselves when given the opportunity as opposed to those who want to be supported like their parents and grandparents before them for doing nothing but existing would be a fairly large clue of which is which though. Those who won't use assistance to better themselves and believe they deserve assisatance for life.......the lazy poor......should be cut off. It's called tough love.

They are a much smaller percentage of those on welfare than you think.

They constitute the majority.

I have gone days meeting with people where not one person was being truthful. They lie about income, they lie about who is in the household, they lie about their costs. They lie about who is the parent of their children, they lie about their alleged disabilities.

They just...lie. Because they want to get something for nothing.

Meanwhile, I have two disabled children who got no disability until they were past the age of majority. The youngest in finally in a place where he is taken care of and we see him twice a week. The oldest is still at home and makes a whopping $445 a month, most of which is going to pay back his student loans as he has completed his associates degree but still can't find a job. No, he's not lazy, there are no jobs and his disability makes it even tougher. They wanted to end his disability and sent us back to a psychiatrist to hopefully diagnose him as employable, the psychiatrist said he still had "problems" and he could work if he got the "right" job which I took to be code for, there is no way in hell anyone will ever employ him. He's still getting his disability.

Then there are the poor people who don't apply for aid, and then there are the ones who do, but don't lie and get nothing because they have too many assets. During our 3 years of hell, I applied for help to pay our heating bill which was $500 in the winter, we missed the qualifications because I made more than $9.00 an hour working at United at the time. Of course, shortly after that, my pay was cut to $8.60 an hour due to their bankruptcy, I didn't bother going back to go through the hell they put me through. Thank God for my friends, family and neighbors or we would never have made it through those 3 years.

Meanwhile the school was upset with me because my kids needed extra help and they wanted to charge medicaid but we didn't have that, we didn't have any medical insurance for awhile. They said, "We know doctors who get medicaid for their special needs children." I replied, "Yeah, well I don't lie."

The people you are seeing, aren't the ones I'm seeing, you are seeing people who can hep themselves and probably do but lie about it because they want more money. I'm seeing the honest ones who don't lie and get very little help even though they need it. One man fell off his bike and I had to take him to 3 public health clinics before I could find one to help him.

 

[koshergrl]

He doesn't "make" $445 a month. He RECEIVES $445 a month. There's a difference.

And the youngest is in a place that costs thousands of dollars a month...that you don't pay for, and neither does he.

You can't find a job because you refuse to move where work is, compounded by the fact that your work history is sketchy and your skills are probably nil.

We see the same people. You just see them differently because you're one of them.

 

[Political Junky]

This attitude worked out well for Democrats when Romney talked about the 47%.

 

[AmazonTania]

This attitude worked out well for Democrats when Romney talked about the 47%.

Well, one thing that has never changed over the years: The Truth Hurts.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, go ahead and cling to the criminal welfare class then....they know which side their bread is buttered on.

Of course, the bread and the butter will run out, and then your criminal welfare class will cannibalize you, but hey, live in the moment.

 

[Againsheila]

He doesn't "make" $445 a month. He RECEIVES $445 a month. There's a difference.

And the youngest is in a place that costs thousands of dollars a month...that you don't pay for, and neither does he.

You can't find a job because you refuse to move where work is, compounded by the fact that your work history is sketchy and your skills are probably nil.

We see the same people. You just see them differently because you're one of them.

Yes, it costs the state thousands for the placement of my son. You know what? They also provide him with psychiatric care, physical therapy and behavioral therapy, none of which they would provide him at home. In fact, they wouldn't provide 24/7 care for my son at home, if they would, it would have saved them $thousands. My husband has Parkinson's and I have health problems, we are getting too old to handle him. He's ripped out walls in this house including the two in the bathroom we only just now got the money to fix. Do you know how old he was when we decided to look for a place for him? 20. Do you know how old he was when he was finally placed? 24, and then only after I had threatened suicide. I still don't know if I was serious or not. You deal with a child who is low functioning autistic, still in diapers, wets the bed every night and occasionally gets violent and see how well your health takes it. What the hell did you expect us to do? Wait until he killed one of us? Now he gets the help he needs and he even visits twice a week. He's much calmer and happier, as are we. I'm sorry your tax dollars are going to help take care of him.

As for $445 dollar a month, you try living off of that, I dare you! He's special needs, what do you expect him to do, die and stop costing the tax payers money?

My work history is sketchy because I have two special needs kids. You ever try to work while taking care of two special needs kids? We are not talking about kids who can take care of them selves, one of them still can't go to the bathroom by himself and he's 25.

I've pointed out that there were doctors that got medicaid and disability for their special needs children when I didn't for mine until they were over 18 because I don't lie and you have the nerve to say I'm one of the lazy poor? That I lie to get benefits? How dare you! Who the hell do you think you are? I hope they fire your lazy judgmental ass because you sure as hell need to be in another line of work.

You know what else? Yeah, you just succeeded in insulting me and my children for no good reason and you made me mad. Congrats, you've made MY ignore list and unlike Poet, when I put you on ignore I really ignore you. I know it doesn't mean anything to you but it sure as hell makes me feel better. I hope someone else lambastes you for your lack of empathy. You deserve to be taken down more than a notch or two. And you are in the wrong job. You've gotten burned out and the people who come to you for help, they deserve better. GOODBYE, Have a nice life.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I wouldn't.......but then my job isn't to determine who would qualify for government assitance. If it WERE my job, their willingness to get an education, job training and work to support themselves when given the opportunity as opposed to those who want to be supported like their parents and grandparents before them for doing nothing but existing would be a fairly large clue of which is which though. Those who won't use assistance to better themselves and believe they deserve assisatance for life.......the lazy poor......should be cut off. It's called tough love.

They are a much smaller percentage of those on welfare than you think.

They constitute the majority.

I have gone days meeting with people where not one person was being truthful. They lie about income, they lie about who is in the household, they lie about their costs. They lie about who is the parent of their children, they lie about their alleged disabilities.

They just...lie. Because they want to get something for nothing.

Given the fact you’re a liar, you should know.

 

[Againsheila]

Another thing about my special needs son who is in a living situation, it's a non-profit organization. When he first moved in, they would send me a statement every month as to how much he cost them, how much money was spent on him, etc. I would pay the difference. The program manager told me we weren't responsible for any of that money and not to worry about it. That they just kept the debts and added them up for their own bookkeeping purposes. I still kept paying them, then they stopped coming. I think the program manager stepped in and decided that we shouldn't be paying that. Probably thought I did enough for them anyway as I go through my network whenever they need something and I've come up with furniture and housing supplies for them when they've needed it. I also arranged for some of them to attend the play at our local theatre last Christmas. It was tough but I got the theatre manager to donate the tickets. I work at the theatre as the house manager and volunteer program coordinator along with my friend. We put in a lot of unpaid hours there. Last Christmas we were working 5 days a week, sometimes 13 hours a day and all for no pay. I guess donating those 15 tickets to a non profit organization was the least the theatre manager could do for me. I, in turn got the whole thing published in the local paper, free publicity for the theatre, and I took the picture that was published,and wrote the article. Newspaper writer and photographer can be added to the number of jobs for which I'm not paid, but of course, I'm the lazy, lying poor so that's probably not worth mentioning.

 

[kwc57]

And when you see them on the street, how do you know the difference?

I wouldn't.......but then my job isn't to determine who would qualify for government assitance. If it WERE my job, their willingness to get an education, job training and work to support themselves when given the opportunity as opposed to those who want to be supported like their parents and grandparents before them for doing nothing but existing would be a fairly large clue of which is which though. Those who won't use assistance to better themselves and believe they deserve assisatance for life.......the lazy poor......should be cut off. It's called tough love.

They are a much smaller percentage of those on welfare than you think.

That's no excuse to not sort out and remove those who would waste valuable resources provided at other people's expense. For every penny provided in aid, it's a penny taken from someone else who earned it.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I asked you for examples, you have none. You want to switch to a system that has no evidence of success in the history of humankind.

Not a good idea.

Here is what you liberals don't understand: the "choice" to accept free public education, initiative, hard work, determination, the ability to learn from your failures, and taking personal responsibility for the decisions you make (whether these personal decisions were good or bad) are the keys to "working" [key word] your way out of poverty.

Some may recall, there was a time when hobos were frowned upon by those who stood by strong work ethics. A time where it had been considered more honorable to find some form of work (no matter how labor intensive), because of the obligation one had to support and care for their family. It was considered a sign of real "character" to never accept the easier, more convenient road. They also desired to leave a stronger set of values to their kids, CHOOSING the labor intensive sacrifice in order to leave behind the chance to discover better opportunities. They were determined to work hard, so their kids could remember the sacrifices they had made, to provide THEM with more education towards an even better way of life. Today we simply give them cell phones, a government taxpayer check, and make excuses for them.



Btw NYcarbineer, where are those facts and statistics that proves government has been successful at reducing the poverty rate? I'm sure you are quite familiar with President Lyndon Baines Johnson's all out "war on poverty". Can you show us how successful and effective it has been, after all these BILLIONS of dollars government has thrown at the issue? Free cell phones, free minutes, I mean they really spared no expense. In what way exactly has Ben Franklin otherwise been proven wrong, when it comes to the issue of poverty? Are you capable of at least defending your side of the argument or not? ...... or is avoidance going to be your only answer? (as I know I'm not the only one who has asked this of you)

Once you acknowledge that there has never been a society that has cured its poverty problems by ignoring the poor, then I might address your questions to me.

Admit it. Admit that the conservative 'plan' has never worked.

So you want me to admit to a plan, that you yourself can not provide ANY statistical proof that the government has been successful? Why exactly should I support an idea of throwing more government money at a problem, that you yourself have no knowledge of its success??? Usually a supporter of the "government war on poverty" has some sort of knowledge behind its implementation, and has the ability to prove how it has worked. Obviously your confidence in these government achievements is rather lacking, based on your forthcoming knowledge of the issue.

 

[Truthmatters]

ask the people who got to eat that day?

 

[kwc57]

ask the people who got to eat that day?

How many fingers am I holding up? Do you know today's date? Can you walk this line for me toe to heel?

 

[ScienceRocks]

This is why I made my robotic economic transformation thread. Take the human out of the important parts of the economy=becoming capable of feeding and clothing our less capable without fucking the economy.

This way the people that can't could stay home without worry...But sadly, we're not to this point yet. Another 25-30 years maybe.

Still you will want cash for things that aren't provided this way.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

the right jsut hates people


they see no onw they are willing to help.

Jesus would be really proud of them huh

2 Thessalonians 3:10

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

 

[Foxfyre]

Another thing about my special needs son who is in a living situation, it's a non-profit organization. When he first moved in, they would send me a statement every month as to how much he cost them, how much money was spent on him, etc. I would pay the difference. The program manager told me we weren't responsible for any of that money and not to worry about it. That they just kept the debts and added them up for their own bookkeeping purposes. I still kept paying them, then they stopped coming. I think the program manager stepped in and decided that we shouldn't be paying that. Probably thought I did enough for them anyway as I go through my network whenever they need something and I've come up with furniture and housing supplies for them when they've needed it. I also arranged for some of them to attend the play at our local theatre last Christmas. It was tough but I got the theatre manager to donate the tickets. I work at the theatre as the house manager and volunteer program coordinator along with my friend. We put in a lot of unpaid hours there. Last Christmas we were working 5 days a week, sometimes 13 hours a day and all for no pay. I guess donating those 15 tickets to a non profit organization was the least the theatre manager could do for me. I, in turn got the whole thing published in the local paper, free publicity for the theatre, and I took the picture that was published,and wrote the article. Newspaper writer and photographer can be added to the number of jobs for which I'm not paid, but of course, I'm the lazy, lying poor so that's probably not worth mentioning.

You have my complete admiration Sheila for I can't imagine having as much on your plate as you do or coping with what you have had to cope with for a very long time now. And as I recall, your own health isn't the best either. And despite it all you do spend a good deal of time helping out others less fortunate and volunteering elsewhere in your community. Am I going to fault you or accuse you for ANYTHING or ANY choices you have made in your life? No way.

But your circumstances are pretty unique in the world of those who need help. And because of the infrequency and rareness of your situation, it simply does not accommodate a one-size-fits-all remedy.

There is a world of difference in your situation that is not caused in any way by any choice you conciously made, and in that of those who chose not to stay in school, who chose not to acquire marketable skills and knowledge, who chose to have kids without benefit of marriage, who squandered their resources and future with illegal substances and illegal activities, etc. etc. etc.

A compassionate society takes care of the truly helpless.

A compassionate society does not reward poor choices, bad behavior, and intentional failure and thereby encourage more of it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Lets just hang all the poor people, problem solved.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Lets just hang all the poor people, problem solved.

No let's improve our educational system=the ability to compete. Kill all victim studies and bull shit that turns one into a victim.

 

[Foxfyre]

Lets just hang all the poor people, problem solved.

No, I'm rather fond of some of them. Especially me.

But I sure would like to see a government, economy, policy, attitudes that encouraged people to get out of poverty rather than the one we have had that encourages more and more of it.