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I think it's just as much a fantasy to believe all persons who are religious are the same.I don't know. While there may be some truth in what you say, I am still optimistic enough that I can influence opinion.Here's the thing Si, honestly, you can't convince people whose political ideologies, especially when it comes to abortion, are religiously based to change. You simply can't. I'm not saying every religious person is Pro-Life/anti-abortion. But the ones who are, are so dedicated to that idea that abortion is murdering a baby that no matter how much scientific data you show them, it doesn't matter because the magical book of spells and stories tells them it's wrong; although I'm 99% sure there's not a single mention of abortion in the Bible. I've not been to Sunday school for over half my life now though, so I could honestly be mistaken.
And, in such an emotionally charged topic, I do try to keep it down. Otherwise, I just exit the thread when emotions are out of control. It's like trying to quench a nuclear meltdown with a garden hose. Futility.
Until next time, and I try again.
Now who's living in a fantasy world? You know damn well the true religious sycophants will not change their view on this. As a kid I was brought to a Promise Keepers rally in like 1993 or '94 in Denver. They took all us teenagers at the time and told us that millions of our peers had already been murdered. They told us that perhaps the next Martin Luther King had been murdered, but we'd never know, because they were murdered.
If they're willing to plant this kind of sick, brainwashing hyperbole into kids' minds at that age, they're never, ever going to give up the ghost on abortion.
Consider the fact that the people who's minds are changed are more than infrequently someone observing the exchange rather than one participating in it.I don't know. While there may be some truth in what you say, I am still optimistic enough that I can influence opinion.Regardless, when I need your interpretation of what I mean, I'll let you know. Until, then, I am perfectly capable of speaking for myself.
I would thank you, but you fucked it up.
OK, so MY point is, Derps; IF you actually have an interest in influencing views on abortion (and I hope you do because you and I agree on this), then telling folks their religion is shit is only going to make your words nothing but air (well, electrons in this meduim) to them.
Dale Carnegie's point. Now, if you just want to flame, and I can understand that, then go for it.
On this topic, my preference is to attempt to influence.
Here's the thing Si, honestly, you can't convince people whose political ideologies, especially when it comes to abortion, are religiously based to change. You simply can't. I'm not saying every religious person is Pro-Life/anti-abortion. But the ones who are, are so dedicated to that idea that abortion is murdering a baby that no matter how much scientific data you show them, it doesn't matter because the magical book of spells and stories tells them it's wrong; although I'm 99% sure there's not a single mention of abortion in the Bible. I've not been to Sunday school for over half my life now though, so I could honestly be mistaken.
And, in such an emotionally charged topic, I do try to keep it down. Otherwise, I just exit the thread when emotions are out of control. It's like trying to quench a nuclear meltdown with a garden hose. Futility.
Until next time, and I try again. I am far from perfect, obviously.
Yup. Refined propaganda tools. If propaganda didn't work, it wouldn't be popular. Hell, I use ridicule a lot, but only with those who seem beyond hope.Consider the fact that the people who's minds are changed are more than infrequently someone observing the exchange rather than one participating in it.I don't know. While there may be some truth in what you say, I am still optimistic enough that I can influence opinion.Here's the thing Si, honestly, you can't convince people whose political ideologies, especially when it comes to abortion, are religiously based to change. You simply can't. I'm not saying every religious person is Pro-Life/anti-abortion. But the ones who are, are so dedicated to that idea that abortion is murdering a baby that no matter how much scientific data you show them, it doesn't matter because the magical book of spells and stories tells them it's wrong; although I'm 99% sure there's not a single mention of abortion in the Bible. I've not been to Sunday school for over half my life now though, so I could honestly be mistaken.
And, in such an emotionally charged topic, I do try to keep it down. Otherwise, I just exit the thread when emotions are out of control. It's like trying to quench a nuclear meltdown with a garden hose. Futility.
Until next time, and I try again. I am far from perfect, obviously.
There's always someone else reading, watching, listening and evaluating.
That's also why mocking the shit out of a person being a dumbass is sometimes so effective. Saul Alinsky thought so and as much as I despise the man, he's right on many of his "Rules for Radicals" as to their effectiveness.
I think it's just as much a fantasy to believe all persons who are religious are the same.I don't know. While there may be some truth in what you say, I am still optimistic enough that I can influence opinion.
And, in such an emotionally charged topic, I do try to keep it down. Otherwise, I just exit the thread when emotions are out of control. It's like trying to quench a nuclear meltdown with a garden hose. Futility.
Until next time, and I try again.
Now who's living in a fantasy world? You know damn well the true religious sycophants will not change their view on this. As a kid I was brought to a Promise Keepers rally in like 1993 or '94 in Denver. They took all us teenagers at the time and told us that millions of our peers had already been murdered. They told us that perhaps the next Martin Luther King had been murdered, but we'd never know, because they were murdered.
If they're willing to plant this kind of sick, brainwashing hyperbole into kids' minds at that age, they're never, ever going to give up the ghost on abortion.
As I said, there may be truth to what you said, but I don't take it as a rule that all religious persons are irrational about this topic.
Oh, and I am sorry about your experience with a bunch of serious whackadoodles. That is disgusting.
and talking with a raving nut, you stay on the other side of the glass to the padded cell.Yup. Refined propaganda tools. If propaganda didn't work, it wouldn't be popular. Hell, I use ridicule a lot, but only with those who seem beyond hope.Consider the fact that the people who's minds are changed are more than infrequently someone observing the exchange rather than one participating in it.I don't know. While there may be some truth in what you say, I am still optimistic enough that I can influence opinion.
And, in such an emotionally charged topic, I do try to keep it down. Otherwise, I just exit the thread when emotions are out of control. It's like trying to quench a nuclear meltdown with a garden hose. Futility.
Until next time, and I try again. I am far from perfect, obviously.
There's always someone else reading, watching, listening and evaluating.
That's also why mocking the shit out of a person being a dumbass is sometimes so effective. Saul Alinsky thought so and as much as I despise the man, he's right on many of his "Rules for Radicals" as to their effectiveness.
It all depends on the caliber of audience I want to influence, as well. When I talk to influence toddlers, I squat down to the ground. When I want to have an adult convo, I stay standing.
Ah... now I get it. You got worn down and lowered your standard because it was convenient.I think it's just as much a fantasy to believe all persons who are religious are the same.Now who's living in a fantasy world? You know damn well the true religious sycophants will not change their view on this. As a kid I was brought to a Promise Keepers rally in like 1993 or '94 in Denver. They took all us teenagers at the time and told us that millions of our peers had already been murdered. They told us that perhaps the next Martin Luther King had been murdered, but we'd never know, because they were murdered.
If they're willing to plant this kind of sick, brainwashing hyperbole into kids' minds at that age, they're never, ever going to give up the ghost on abortion.
As I said, there may be truth to what you said, but I don't take it as a rule that all religious persons are irrational about this topic.
Oh, and I am sorry about your experience with a bunch of serious whackadoodles. That is disgusting.
Now don't go putting words and meanings in my mouth though. I never said that all religious people are the same. In fact, in a post in this thread, after that comment I made, I said as much. I know there are religious people who are Pro-Choice. My only point was that when it's religious dogma that informs your political views, you're dead weight; you'll never think outside any box.
It's all good. I was definitely indoctrinated into Christianity and Conservatism for many years. I genuinely had many of views "evolve" over time. It went like this for me:
Staunch Conservative---->Fiscal Conservative/Social Liberal---->Libertarian for two seconds---->Liberal---->Left Wing Radical
Ha ha ha. From one goddamned extreme to the other. It took about 25 years for that journey, but still.
and talking with a raving nut, you stay on the other side of the glass to the padded cell.Yup. Refined propaganda tools. If propaganda didn't work, it wouldn't be popular. Hell, I use ridicule a lot, but only with those who seem beyond hope.Consider the fact that the people who's minds are changed are more than infrequently someone observing the exchange rather than one participating in it.
There's always someone else reading, watching, listening and evaluating.
That's also why mocking the shit out of a person being a dumbass is sometimes so effective. Saul Alinsky thought so and as much as I despise the man, he's right on many of his "Rules for Radicals" as to their effectiveness.
It all depends on the caliber of audience I want to influence, as well. When I talk to influence toddlers, I squat down to the ground. When I want to have an adult convo, I stay standing.
And slowly back away without making any sudden moves.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaVZmo8CsGQ"]Renfield @ Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992) - YouTube[/ame]and talking with a raving nut, you stay on the other side of the glass to the padded cell.Yup. Refined propaganda tools. If propaganda didn't work, it wouldn't be popular. Hell, I use ridicule a lot, but only with those who seem beyond hope.
It all depends on the caliber of audience I want to influence, as well. When I talk to influence toddlers, I squat down to the ground. When I want to have an adult convo, I stay standing.
Then we should start by banning it after 22 weeks, if that is the point at which you believe a parasitic blob of cells becomes an unborn baby.It's n having ,the choice to kill a baby that many revel, and many others revile.I've never met a woman who "revels" in wanting an abortion. It's usually a hard decision for most of them.
Fetuses can't survive until the 22-week mark outside the mother's womb. Tell me on Yoda's Green Earth would we assign the same rights to a life form like that the same rights as the mother herself. It's fucking loony. It's religious hooey and since there are plenty of non-religious types out there, to ban abortion before the 22 mark is simply religious rhetoric codified into law.
Ah... now I get it. You got worn down and lowered your standard because it was convenient.I think it's just as much a fantasy to believe all persons who are religious are the same.
As I said, there may be truth to what you said, but I don't take it as a rule that all religious persons are irrational about this topic.
Oh, and I am sorry about your experience with a bunch of serious whackadoodles. That is disgusting.
Now don't go putting words and meanings in my mouth though. I never said that all religious people are the same. In fact, in a post in this thread, after that comment I made, I said as much. I know there are religious people who are Pro-Choice. My only point was that when it's religious dogma that informs your political views, you're dead weight; you'll never think outside any box.
It's all good. I was definitely indoctrinated into Christianity and Conservatism for many years. I genuinely had many of views "evolve" over time. It went like this for me:
Staunch Conservative---->Fiscal Conservative/Social Liberal---->Libertarian for two seconds---->Liberal---->Left Wing Radical
Ha ha ha. From one goddamned extreme to the other. It took about 25 years for that journey, but still.
Gotcha. A living example of moral and intellectual entropy.
Ah... now I get it. You got worn down and lowered your standard because it was convenient.Now don't go putting words and meanings in my mouth though. I never said that all religious people are the same. In fact, in a post in this thread, after that comment I made, I said as much. I know there are religious people who are Pro-Choice. My only point was that when it's religious dogma that informs your political views, you're dead weight; you'll never think outside any box.
It's all good. I was definitely indoctrinated into Christianity and Conservatism for many years. I genuinely had many of views "evolve" over time. It went like this for me:
Staunch Conservative---->Fiscal Conservative/Social Liberal---->Libertarian for two seconds---->Liberal---->Left Wing Radical
Ha ha ha. From one goddamned extreme to the other. It took about 25 years for that journey, but still.
Gotcha. A living example of moral and intellectual entropy.
What a completely idiotic thing to say. No, dummy. What happened is that I became my own person. I realized that growing up I NEVER accepted what was being shoved my way. It always felt wrong, but in my house you didn't question the Patriarch or Matriarch. So you gave lip service to it. Jesus, way to make dumb fucking assumptions about someone's personal decisions.
Lowering standards...what a smug prick. You're one of those that honestly believes Liberals are a scourge to this land and should be extinguished, right? You'd much rather have a country where only one ideology is allowed? You genuinely believe Liberals are amoral, Godless scum, yeah?
Then we should start by banning it after 22 weeks, if that is the point at which you believe a parasitic blob of cells becomes an unborn baby.It's n having ,the choice to kill a baby that many revel, and many others revile.
Fetuses can't survive until the 22-week mark outside the mother's womb. Tell me on Yoda's Green Earth would we assign the same rights to a life form like that the same rights as the mother herself. It's fucking loony. It's religious hooey and since there are plenty of non-religious types out there, to ban abortion before the 22 mark is simply religious rhetoric codified into law.
And what makes you think I am religious? One can take issue with killin babies without bein religious.
In the next four years, there will likely be at least 2 or 3 slots on the Supreme Court open up due to the age of the justices. Ruth Ginsberg is in questionable health and three othe justices (Kennedy, Scalia and Breyer) are all in their 70's.
If you're a woman who values the ability to make reproductive choices on your own, you should vote for the President since he is committed to letting you keep your right to make that choice.
It is the truth that the republican nominee has been on both sides of the abortion issue in the past. Where the nominee will end up when selecting a new justice and what litmus test he will apply to that selection is up in the air.
Even a swing of one vote could overturn Roe v. Wade. If given the opportunity, conservatives will take that chance to overturn this landmark ruling.
Just something to consider before you go into the polling place and fill out your ballot this November.
This is Candycorn and I approved this message.
Hmmmmmmm.... let's look at it a second...Ah... now I get it. You got worn down and lowered your standard because it was convenient.Now don't go putting words and meanings in my mouth though. I never said that all religious people are the same. In fact, in a post in this thread, after that comment I made, I said as much. I know there are religious people who are Pro-Choice. My only point was that when it's religious dogma that informs your political views, you're dead weight; you'll never think outside any box.
It's all good. I was definitely indoctrinated into Christianity and Conservatism for many years. I genuinely had many of views "evolve" over time. It went like this for me:
Staunch Conservative---->Fiscal Conservative/Social Liberal---->Libertarian for two seconds---->Liberal---->Left Wing Radical
Ha ha ha. From one goddamned extreme to the other. It took about 25 years for that journey, but still.
Gotcha. A living example of moral and intellectual entropy.
What a completely idiotic thing to say. No, dummy. What happened is that I became my own person. I realized that growing up I NEVER accepted what was being shoved my way. It always felt wrong, but in my house you didn't question the Patriarch or Matriarch. So you gave lip service to it. Jesus, way to make dumb fucking assumptions about someone's personal decisions.
Lowering standards...what a smug prick. You're one of those that honestly believes Liberals are a scourge to this land and should be extinguished, right? You'd much rather have a country where only one ideology is allowed? You genuinely believe Liberals are amoral, Godless scum, yeah?
Ah... now I get it. You got worn down and lowered your standard because it was convenient.
Gotcha. A living example of moral and intellectual entropy.
What a completely idiotic thing to say. No, dummy. What happened is that I became my own person. I realized that growing up I NEVER accepted what was being shoved my way. It always felt wrong, but in my house you didn't question the Patriarch or Matriarch. So you gave lip service to it. Jesus, way to make dumb fucking assumptions about someone's personal decisions.
Lowering standards...what a smug prick. You're one of those that honestly believes Liberals are a scourge to this land and should be extinguished, right? You'd much rather have a country where only one ideology is allowed? You genuinely believe Liberals are amoral, Godless scum, yeah?
What's the problem with believing people like you are scum? You are no more tolerant....
Then we should start by banning it after 22 weeks, if that is the point at which you believe a parasitic blob of cells becomes an unborn baby.Fetuses can't survive until the 22-week mark outside the mother's womb. Tell me on Yoda's Green Earth would we assign the same rights to a life form like that the same rights as the mother herself. It's fucking loony. It's religious hooey and since there are plenty of non-religious types out there, to ban abortion before the 22 mark is simply religious rhetoric codified into law.
And what makes you think I am religious? One can take issue with killin babies without bein religious.
I believe in most states 22 weeks is already the standard.
Hmmmmmmm.... let's look at it a second...Ah... now I get it. You got worn down and lowered your standard because it was convenient.
Gotcha. A living example of moral and intellectual entropy.
What a completely idiotic thing to say. No, dummy. What happened is that I became my own person. I realized that growing up I NEVER accepted what was being shoved my way. It always felt wrong, but in my house you didn't question the Patriarch or Matriarch. So you gave lip service to it. Jesus, way to make dumb fucking assumptions about someone's personal decisions.
Lowering standards...what a smug prick. You're one of those that honestly believes Liberals are a scourge to this land and should be extinguished, right? You'd much rather have a country where only one ideology is allowed? You genuinely believe Liberals are amoral, Godless scum, yeah?
Moral relativity based on basal individual emotions and spurious standards of convenience in the moment, ingrained racism, sexism and creedism exemplified with identity politics and warfare; with the violent rejection and denial of individual freedom tied to the hypocrisy of demanding their own kinda prove the point.
Liberal philosophy IS inferior and a scourge on every nation that adopts it as it's philosophical foundation.
Then we should start by banning it after 22 weeks, if that is the point at which you believe a parasitic blob of cells becomes an unborn baby.
And what makes you think I am religious? One can take issue with killin babies without bein religious.
I believe in most states 22 weeks is already the standard.
So, you think that at 154 weeks a baby is a baby, but at 153 6/7 weeks, its still a blob of parasitic cells?
What a completely idiotic thing to say. No, dummy. What happened is that I became my own person. I realized that growing up I NEVER accepted what was being shoved my way. It always felt wrong, but in my house you didn't question the Patriarch or Matriarch. So you gave lip service to it. Jesus, way to make dumb fucking assumptions about someone's personal decisions.
Lowering standards...what a smug prick. You're one of those that honestly believes Liberals are a scourge to this land and should be extinguished, right? You'd much rather have a country where only one ideology is allowed? You genuinely believe Liberals are amoral, Godless scum, yeah?
What's the problem with believing people like you are scum? You are no more tolerant....
I'm not tolerant of sycophants. I can be intellectually honest and debate anyone who doesn't preach dogma instead of cogent thought. There are plenty of Conservatives I respect. But the kind of Conservative I respect doesn't really speak out much anymore. They're afraid to, or they'll be primaried. Fucking Orin Hatch had to back away from his own DREAM Act so that the Tea Party didn't try to railroad him out of office. That's not productive. That's not anything but Thuggery. I think real Conservatives would do well to leave the Republican party to the TeaBaggers and go start a new party.
I respect old school Conservatives like Barry Goldwater and Eisenhower and even Bob Dole. Those guys weren't leashed at the hip to the Religious Right. They spoke their minds, and stuck to their guns, and even though I didn't agree with their fiscal or social policies by and large, I could see that they were willing to sacrifice and compromise for the country if need be. That's what missing from the Tea Party...civility. Ironic coming from me, sure. But I tend to respond in kind.
I believe in most states 22 weeks is already the standard.
So, you think that at 154 weeks a baby is a baby, but at 153 6/7 weeks, its still a blob of parasitic cells?
154 weeks? Huh? Are we talking about human babies or elephant babies?
