The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Markle]

There were several other options.

Specifically, what other options were there that would have led to fewer casualties on both sides as well as lead to long-term peace and the US and Japan becoming strong allies?

 

[9thIDdoc]

The united states. And the other signatories to the global treaties that, unlike yourself, recognize the baseline truth that some methods are less moral and less ethical than others, and so the time and place where they are acceptable varies. I did not think this discussion would devolve to such a stupid place. I will leave you guys to hash out that silly talking point amongst yourselves. Say hello to 1950 for me.

I did not think this discussion would devolve to such a stupid place. I will leave you guys to hash out that silly talking point amongst yourselves.

Another way of saying you prefer your precious (if ignorant) delusions to reality.

 

[gipper]

Specifically, what other options were there that would have led to fewer casualties on both sides as well as lead to long-term peace and the US and Japan becoming strong allies?

Jesus really? You don’t know after 71 fucking years. Get informed.

Accept their surrender and go home. No need to drop the bombs or occupy their country.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Jesus really? You don’t know after 71 fucking years. Get informed.

Accept their surrender and go home. No need to drop the bombs or occupy their country.

They never offered to surrender

 

[Unkotare]

Specifically, what other options were there that would have led to fewer casualties on both sides as well as lead to long-term peace and the US and Japan becoming strong allies?

Pursuing terms of surrender earlier in the war, for one.

 

[gipper]

They never offered to surrender

We’ve through this you dumb grunt. They tried to surrender several times. They were trying to get the US to allow the emperor to live, which your beloved Truman ignored with his dumb unconditional surrender. Then he mass murdered babies and women with the two bombs…and then agreed to not touching the emperor.

Baby killers love Dirty Harry.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We’ve through this you dumb grunt. They tried to surrender several times. They were trying to get the US to allow the emperor to live, which your beloved Truman ignored with his dumb unconditional surrender. Then he mass murdered babies and women with the two bombs…and then agreed to not touching the emperor.

Baby killers love Dirty Harry.

that is a lie they never offered to surrender they offered a cease fire and return to 41 start lines.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Except that the bombs didn't end the war. The entry of the USSR into the Pacific War did.

The Japanese war with the Soviets' went on after the surrender.

 

[MaryL]

So you think every Japanese citizen was complicit in attacking Peal Harbor? I guess if you have managed to convince yourself of that it makes it easier to look the other way on killing thousands of civilians.

Well. Ok you want to spilt hairs? In 1941, Do you think the Japanese military/government cared about "individual" Chinese or Koreans they killed? Please, don't play that game.

 

[Markle]

Are you equating a military attack on a military base with the annihilation of hundreds of thousands of civilians?

"From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture (such as the view that those enemy soldiers who surrender while still able to resist were criminals)."

STATISTICS OF JAPANESE GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER

 

[Markle]

Jesus really? You don’t know after 71 fucking years. Get informed.

Accept their surrender and go home. No need to drop the bombs or occupy their country.

As you know, the conditional surrender offered by the Japanese included keeping their Emperor in power which was no surrender at all. The peace we have enjoyed for 71 years was made possible only by unconditional surrender. As you know too, that is the same with Germany. Do you believe we'd have had 71 years of peace had Hitler been allowed to remain in command?

You can't give any other option that would have led to the same peace.

 

[Mac-7]

They tried to surrender several times.

Nonsense RetiredGySgt has it right

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I did not think this discussion would devolve to such a stupid place. I will leave you guys to hash out that silly talking point amongst yourselves.

Another way of saying you prefer your precious (if ignorant) delusions to reality.

Right, my delusions and the delusion of every civilized country on earth that has signed weapons treaties and rules of war treaties. We are all delusional, and you have a lot to teach us.

 

[Unkotare]

"From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others...

So, you're saying that we used the atomic bomb for the sake of all those countries, and not solely for our own interests? Was the US military working for them?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, you're saying that we used the atomic bomb for the sake of all those countries, and not solely for our own interests? Was the US military working for them?

I believe the idea is that our enemy was so evil, nothing we did to them could ever be considered immoral or unethical.

 

[Unkotare]

As you know, the conditional surrender offered by the Japanese included keeping their Emperor in power which was no surrender at all. The peace we have enjoyed for 71 years was made possible only by unconditional surrender. .....

The offer was for the exact same terms that we finally DID accept AFTER incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians.

 

[whitehall]

The FDR/Truman administration pretty much took control over the media during WW2 but it wasn't necessary after the war. The media writes the history books and generations of kids were taught that the Japanese deserved nuclear annihilation, but did they? Is it possible that the eggheads who developed the Bomb were desperate to test it on humans or sub-humans? You have to dig deep but indications are that the Japanese holdouts were so desperate to surrender with reasonable terms that they contacted Stalin when Truman refused to negotiate. The U.S. had total superiority in the air and the Japanese navy was reduced to a couple of rogue submarines. The war was over but the eggheads were still determined and they had a rube president who never heard of the technology. The fix was in and the last thing Japanese civilians saw was a flash before they became shadows on the wall.

 

[Unkotare]

I believe the idea is that our enemy was so evil, nothing we did to them could ever be considered immoral or unethical.

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Is it possible that the eggheads who developed the Bomb were desperate to test it on humans or sub-humans?

Sure, maybe, but the order came down from the president. He knew what the testing showed. He knew what the bombs were, and what they would do. And in making this decision, he was surrounded by people just as informed as he was, from several sectors of the government, not just the military or scientific community.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The FDR/Truman administration pretty much took control over the media during WW2 but it wasn't necessary after the war. The media writes the history books and generations of kids were taught that the Japanese deserved nuclear annihilation, but did they? Is it possible that the eggheads who developed the Bomb were desperate to test it on humans or sub-humans? You have to dig deep but indications are that the Japanese holdouts were so desperate to surrender with reasonable terms that they contacted Stalin when Truman refused to negotiate. The U.S. had total superiority in the air and the Japanese navy was reduced to a couple of rogue submarines. The war was over but the eggheads were still determined and they had a rube president who never heard of the technology. The fix was in and the last thing Japanese civilians saw was a flash before they became shadows on the wall.

The Japanese Army never intended to surrender. The Army was the Government. Even after 2 atomic bombs and the Soviets attacking them the Army REFUSED to surrender. The Emperor who was seen as a LIVING God by the Army ordered the surrender. The Army Attempted a Coup to stop the Emperor from surrendering.