The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Vegasgiants]

None, because as is typical in Japan, the Imperial Family had little to no actual power.

Prince Yashuhito (younger brother of Emperor Showa) was diagnosed with tuberculosis in 1940, and spent most of the war in Japan. Prince Nobuhito (third son) was part of the Naval Staff in Tokyo during the war. The youngest brother was Prince Takahito (youngest son) served in China early on, but was also known as being strongly against the excesses of the Japanese Army, and spent much of the war trying to end the brutalities of the Occupation.

So please tell us, exactly who in the Imperial Family should have been tried?

Yet only the emperor could surrender


Only he had that power

 

[Mashmont]

good lord, is this thread still going?

Yeah, I needed to set the record straight about Vegas. I saw him popping off to a real veteran.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Yeah, I needed to set the record straight about Vegas. I saw him popping off to a real veteran.

As opposed to you. Lol

Dont ask dont tell. Lol

 

[ding]

None, because as is typical in Japan, the Imperial Family had little to no actual power.

Prince Yashuhito (younger brother of Emperor Showa) was diagnosed with tuberculosis in 1940, and spent most of the war in Japan. Prince Nobuhito (third son) was part of the Naval Staff in Tokyo during the war. The youngest brother was Prince Takahito (youngest son) served in China early on, but was also known as being strongly against the excesses of the Japanese Army, and spent much of the war trying to end the brutalities of the Occupation.

So please tell us, exactly who in the Imperial Family should have been tried?

He doesn't actually know anything about this.

 

[Vegasgiants]

He doesn't actually know anything about this.

But hes trying to learn

 

[Mushroom]

Yet only the emperor could surrender

No, the Emperor could not surrender.

Only the Big Six could surrender. If they refused, all the Emperor could do is smile and follow their directives.

To put it in perspective in a European context, Emperor Showa "Reigned, but did not rule".

If at the end of September 1945 the Big Six were still voting 4-2 to continue the war, the war would have continued. Even as the third, forth, and later bombs fell on the nation and into November when Operation Olympic started the invasion of Kyushu in November. You do not seem to get, the Emperor was largely a puppet, and had no actual power.

And yes, I have noticed you have ignored every single factual statement I have made, and continued on your fantasy that Emperor Showa actually "ruled" the nation. He did not. He was a "Spiritual Ruler", not unlike the Dali Lama, or Pope. He had spiritual power, but he spoke through his advisors, and they had the ultimate say. Hell, he was forbidden by tradition rom saying anything in his own Imperial Council!

 

[Vegasgiants]

No, the Emperor could not surrender.

Only the Big Six could surrender. If they refused, all the Emperor could do is smile and follow their directives.

To put it in perspective in a European context, Emperor Showa "Reigned, but did not rule".

If at the end of September 1945 the Big Six were still voting 4-2 to continue the war, the war would have continued. Even as the third, forth, and later bombs fell on the nation and into November when Operation Olympic started the invasion of Kyushu in November. You do not seem to get, the Emperor was largely a puppet, and had no actual power.

And yes, I have noticed you have ignored every single factual statement I have made, and continued on your fantasy that Emperor Showa actually "ruled" the nation. He did not. He was a "Spiritual Ruler", not unlike the Dali Lama, or Pope. He had spiritual power, but he spoke through his advisors, and they had the ultimate say. Hell, he was forbidden by tradition rom saying anything in his own Imperial Council!

Nope. We would NEVER accept a surrender without the emperor.


He went on the radio to declare surrender


If he did not surrender the war continued

 

[ding]

No, the Emperor could not surrender.

Only the Big Six could surrender. If they refused, all the Emperor could do is smile and follow their directives.

To put it in perspective in a European context, Emperor Showa "Reigned, but did not rule".

If at the end of September 1945 the Big Six were still voting 4-2 to continue the war, the war would have continued. Even as the third, forth, and later bombs fell on the nation and into November when Operation Olympic started the invasion of Kyushu in November. You do not seem to get, the Emperor was largely a puppet, and had no actual power.

And yes, I have noticed you have ignored every single factual statement I have made, and continued on your fantasy that Emperor Showa actually "ruled" the nation. He did not. He was a "Spiritual Ruler", not unlike the Dali Lama, or Pope. He had spiritual power, but he spoke through his advisors, and they had the ultimate say. Hell, he was forbidden by tradition rom saying anything in his own Imperial Council!

This was actually in a link he was quoting from but never actually referenced or linked.

 

[Mashmont]

But hes trying to learn

Ding was talking about YOU, screen beret. Stop pretending his quote was meant for somebody else. That's a dishonest trick you commonly do.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Ding was talking about YOU, screen beret. Stop pretending his quote was meant for somebody else.

Settle down gay boy. Lol

 

[Mushroom]

He doesn't actually know anything about this.

Oh, that was obvious when he tried to say that Emperor Showa could get on the radio.

Apparently not even knowing that the voice of the Emperor had never been heard on the radio prior to the Golden Voice broadcast. That even his knowledge of Japanese was so far removed form that of the common people that he actually needed a fricking translator so that the people would know what he had actually said!

That the radio crew had to go to the Imperial Palace to make the recording. And that without the express permission of the Big Six, that never would have happened. The Emperor (as had been Emperors for centuries before Showa) were not Emperors as Westerners think of them. They did not rule, they always spoke through others who made all the decisions. That did end briefly during what was known as the "Meiji Restoration", when the power of the Tokogawa Daimo was finally purged and Emperor Meiji took actual power. But that was short lived, as in 1912 he died and Emperor Taisho took the throne.

Who was weak, sickly, and some report possibly having mental or emotional impairments. Which led the government to resume the previous status of running the nation and pushing the Emperor back into at most an observer of the nation itself. Which is the state when Emperor Showa assumed the throne in 1926.

The problem is, no matter what he simply refuses to admit that Emperor Showa had no actual power. He had about as much power during the war as the Pope had in ordering the Italian Armies to stop fighting during WWII. Except, the Pope could actually speak on the radio. The Emperor was forbidden from doing so.

 

[ding]

Ding was talking about YOU, screen beret. Stop pretending his quote was meant for somebody else. That's a dishonest trick you commonly do.

He was referring to himself in the third person.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Oh, that was obvious when he tried to say that Emperor Showa could get on the radio.

Apparently not even knowing that the voice of the Emperor had never been heard on the radio prior to the Golden Voice broadcast. That even his knowledge of Japanese was so far removed form that of the common people that he actually needed a fricking translator so that the people would know what he had actually said!

That the radio crew had to go to the Imperial Palace to make the recording. And that without the express permission of the Big Six, that never would have happened. The Emperor (as had been Emperors for centuries before Showa) were not Emperors as Westerners think of them. They did not rule, they always spoke through others who made all the decisions. That did end briefly during what was known as the "Meiji Restoration", when the power of the Tokogawa Daimo was finally purged and Emperor Meiji took actual power. But that was short lived, as in 1912 he died and Emperor Taisho took the throne.

Who was weak, sickly, and some report possibly having mental or emotional impairments. Which led the government to resume the previous status of running the nation and pushing the Emperor back into at most an observer of the nation itself. Which is the state when Emperor Showa assumed the throne in 1926.

The problem is, no matter what he simply refuses to admit that Emperor Showa had no actual power. He had about as much power during the war as the Pope had in ordering the Italian Armies to stop fighting during WWII. Except, the Pope could actually speak on the radio. The Emperor was forbidden from doing so.

And yet the emperor did get on the radio


Because only he could surrender

 

[ding]

Oh, that was obvious when he tried to say that Emperor Showa could get on the radio.

Apparently not even knowing that the voice of the Emperor had never been heard on the radio prior to the Golden Voice broadcast. That even his knowledge of Japanese was so far removed form that of the common people that he actually needed a fricking translator so that the people would know what he had actually said!

That the radio crew had to go to the Imperial Palace to make the recording. And that without the express permission of the Big Six, that never would have happened. The Emperor (as had been Emperors for centuries before Showa) were not Emperors as Westerners think of them. They did not rule, they always spoke through others who made all the decisions. That did end briefly during what was known as the "Meiji Restoration", when the power of the Tokogawa Daimo was finally purged and Emperor Meiji took actual power. But that was short lived, as in 1912 he died and Emperor Taisho took the throne.

Who was weak, sickly, and some report possibly having mental or emotional impairments. Which led the government to resume the previous status of running the nation and pushing the Emperor back into at most an observer of the nation itself. Which is the state when Emperor Showa assumed the throne in 1926.

The problem is, no matter what he simply refuses to admit that Emperor Showa had no actual power. He had about as much power during the war as the Pope had in ordering the Italian Armies to stop fighting during WWII. Except, the Pope could actually speak on the radio. The Emperor was forbidden from doing so.

Exactly.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Oh, that was obvious when he tried to say that Emperor Showa could get on the radio.

Apparently not even knowing that the voice of the Emperor had never been heard on the radio prior to the Golden Voice broadcast. That even his knowledge of Japanese was so far removed form that of the common people that he actually needed a fricking translator so that the people would know what he had actually said!

That the radio crew had to go to the Imperial Palace to make the recording. And that without the express permission of the Big Six, that never would have happened. The Emperor (as had been Emperors for centuries before Showa) were not Emperors as Westerners think of them. They did not rule, they always spoke through others who made all the decisions. That did end briefly during what was known as the "Meiji Restoration", when the power of the Tokogawa Daimo was finally purged and Emperor Meiji took actual power. But that was short lived, as in 1912 he died and Emperor Taisho took the throne.

Who was weak, sickly, and some report possibly having mental or emotional impairments. Which led the government to resume the previous status of running the nation and pushing the Emperor back into at most an observer of the nation itself. Which is the state when Emperor Showa assumed the throne in 1926.

The problem is, no matter what he simply refuses to admit that Emperor Showa had no actual power. He had about as much power during the war as the Pope had in ordering the Italian Armies to stop fighting during WWII. Except, the Pope could actually speak on the radio. The Emperor was forbidden from doing so.

The pope was not the leader of italy. Lol

 

[Mushroom]

Nope. We would NEVER accept a surrender without the emperor.

He went on the radio to declare surrender

Once again, you refuse to accept reality.

Who got on the radio? Because until that moment, nobody had ever heard his voice on the Radio.

You simply refuse to accept reality. And I can't help you understand it, nor do you seem to take any effort to try and learn the truth.

Tell me, how do we know that was the Emperor? Point out to me a single time prior to then he said anything on the radio.

It could have been Momotaro for all we know.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Once again, you refuse to accept reality.

Who got on the radio? Because until that moment, nobody had ever heard his voice on the Radio.

You simply refuse to accept reality. And I can't help you understand it, nor do you seem to take any effort to try and learn the truth.

Tell me, how do we know that was the Emperor? Point out to me a single time prior to then he said anything on the radio.

It could have been Momotaro for all we know.

You deny the emperor was the one who surrendered on the radio?????



Holy cow!!!!!! Lol

 

[Mushroom]

The pope was not the leader of italy. Lol

And Emperor Showa was not the true leader of Japan.

You just do not get it. His authority came from Shinto. Which placed him as the "Head of the Religion", akin to the Pope with Catholics, or the ruler of England for the Anglican Church.

He had no temporal power. None. That had not existed for almost a thousand years, other than during the brief reign of Emperor Meiji decades before. He was a figurehead, his Cabinet spoke for him, he did not speak for himself.

He had no power, the "Physical world" was not of his concern, he was the intermediator between the people and the Gods. The Gods spoke to him, he spoke to the Cabinet (if they were ever deadlocked), then they spoke to the people.

As I say over and over, you completely fail to grasp this simple idea. He was not Napoleon, he was a guy in robes that sat behind a screen and did what his advisors told him to do.

 

[Vegasgiants]

And Emperor Showa was not the true leader of Japan.

You just do not get it. His authority came from Shinto. Which placed him as the "Head of the Religion", akin to the Pope with Catholics, or the ruler of England for the Anglican Church.

He had no temporal power. None. That had not existed for almost a thousand years, other than during the brief reign of Emperor Meiji decades before. He was a figurehead, his Cabinet spoke for him, he did not speak for himself.

He had no power, the "Physical world" was not of his concern, he was the intermediator between the people and the Gods. The Gods spoke to him, he spoke to the Cabinet (if they were ever deadlocked), then they spoke to the people.

As I say over and over, you completely fail to grasp this simple idea. He was not Napoleon, he was a guy in robes that sat behind a screen and did what his advisors told him to do.

Yet only the emperor could surrender


Facts are stubborn things

 

[Mashmont]

He was referring to himself in the third person.

I think so.