The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[eagle1462010]

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And it is an attempt to condemn the actions of a different mindset from a different generation ..........aka different era........

Many of America's military leaders of that generation, that era, that day saw the use of the atomic bombs on civilians of a defeated enemy as unnecessary and morally problematic.

And more than many didn't care if it was used...............They weren't in charge and that is the end of it.

It is history...........and I see you don't care about the Japanese torturing and killing POW's days after the 1st bomb dropped. Those articles that I posted.

Japan should have surrendered earlier................period...........their fault that the U.S. brought out the big guns........aka nukes to make them surrender...............

Do you deny the barbarism of the Japanese army.........the torture.......the rape..........and complete destruction of killing entire villages..........cities.........to every man woman and child in places like Nanking.............DO YOU????????

You are trying to make the United States into a villian..........We didn't do this to Japanese POW's...............we didn't execute every prisoner in a camp.............we didn't starve and work them to death...............That is all Japan during the War.......Now we are supposed to cry that the decision to drop the bomb and end the War was so bad................I don't think so..........

On Japanese atrocities.............DID THEY DO IT..................

 

[eagle1462010]

Perhaps you shouldn't be a teacher when you can't recognize sarcasm directed at you.

My point stands............Japan started the War and got their asses beat..........The Nukes were a part of that ass whooping...........If they didn't want it..........then they should have never started the fight...............Their torture of people and prisoners is the act of BARBARIANS.......................they deserved NO SYMPATHY at the end of the world.

Had we fire bombed those cities instead of the Nukes.................those cities would be just as dead...........

So cry me a river.

Have you read ANY of the other posts on this thread?

yes.......................but not all.......

Then go do your work before making an ass of yourself.

Who da fck are you to demand a dang thing from me......................

In other words, you're happy being ignorant - you need to remain ignorant - because it allows you to wallow comfortably in your emotions. So much easier than thinking.

AKA Anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant..................That dog doesn't hunt with me.............Your never ending outrage for the nukes is boring............you've been doing the same thing for a long time now..............and are upset that no one is really listening to you.

That is your personal problem and not mine.

 

[eagle1462010]

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The Japanese were brutal....................

Make up your mind. Were the atomic bombs used to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians as an act of revenge, or in order to end the war?

The decision was made to end the War.............Did the part of revenge help make up their minds..........Your damned skippy.

 

[Unkotare]

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The Japanese were brutal....................

Make up your mind. Were the atomic bombs used to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians as an act of revenge, or in order to end the war?

The decision was made to end the War.............Did the part of revenge help make up their minds..........Your damned skippy.

It wasn’t necessary to end the war. That leaves just the revenge. Killing over 100,000 civilians in atomic incineration and its aftermath, and throwing AMERICANS into concentration camps in revenge against a military enemy? Is that what you think America is about?

 

[Unkotare]

Have you read ANY of the other posts on this thread?

yes.......................but not all.......

Then go do your work before making an ass of yourself.

Who da fck are you to demand a dang thing from me......................

In other words, you're happy being ignorant - you need to remain ignorant - because it allows you to wallow comfortably in your emotions. So much easier than thinking.

AKA [sic] Anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant..................

I never said that. You said that you had not read all of the information provided in just this one brief thread and did not care to. What would you call that if not ignorant?

 

[elektra]

When dealing with the fact that General Omar Bradley confirmed in his memoir that Ike voiced objection to nuking Japan to Stimson and Truman, Maddox argues that that part of Bradley’s book was fabricated by Bradley’s co-author!

You should read what Omar N. Bradley says, before making false claims. Bradley does not mention Stimson in his memoir? General Bradley does make it clear that not once during the War did Eisenhower mention nuclear or atomic bombs, hence Bradley does not confirm what you claim.

Seriously, by now, I would think you would of figured out that if you do not do the scholarly work yourself you have no idea if they are lying. In this case, you fail again. Seriously, cutting/pasting other people's work leaves you empty headed when I can quote the book.

No mention of Stimson, "at no time during the war", did Eisenhower mention the bomb! Care to bring somebody else up, that proves you are wrong. This is almost comical, but very sad, on your part.

[/QUOTE]

 

[mikegriffith1]

You literally, are an idiot. Yes respond, with replies that ignore what I post.

You are lazy and have not read the posts in this thread. I dont think you read what you quote.

This post is a great example. My post was specific with sources. I never mentioned Maddox nor quoted Maddox. Now you are off on a tangent in regards to Maddox.

I shake my head at your stupidity.

It is as if your brain barely functions. Your brain functions just enough to do a Google search. Google is thinking for you. I bet your head hurts.

It is amazing that you could make these statements after reading my reply. I suspect you read the first paragraph and then skimmed over the rest. My reply answers every essential argument you've made about Ike's statements on nuking Japan. All of your arguments against Ike's statements follow the general thrust of Maddox's arguments, except that some of your assumptions are erroneous and are not even made by Maddox. Let's examine your arguments:

Eisenhower, gives to different versions of his meeting with Stimson.

I addressed that argument in my reply.

Two versions that contradict each other.

No, they do not, not by any standard of sound scholarship. They are not mutually exclusive: it's just that the later version gives more detail. Nothing in the first version conflicts with the second version, and vice versa.

One must be a lie.

That's a simplistic, sophomoric conclusion that shows you have no understanding of serious historical research. Just because one account provides more information than the other does not mean that one of them is a "lie."

Which book to believe?

Again, the two accounts are not mutually exclusive. Even in the first account, Ike made it clear that he expressed misgivings about nuking Japan. As I mentioned in my reply, it is entirely reasonable and understandable that Ike's first account, written in 1948, would be rather circumspect, but that his later account, written 15 years later, would contain more information because he felt more at liberty to provide a fuller version.

I notice you ignored the point that Gen. Omar Bradley confirmed in his memoir that Eisenhower expressed strong objections to nuking Japan when he met with Stimson. Why didn't you address that point?

We can also use MacArthur to show that it is unlikely that Eisenhower was told about the Top Secret Atomic Bomb while MacArthur was not.

LOL! Uh, as even Maddox admits, one of Stimson's aides recorded that Ike and Stimson discussed the atomic bomb! Did you even read my reply?

Furthermore, just FYI, Truman, Stimson, and the rest of Truman's gang hated MacArthur! How can you not know this?! So it's not at all surprising that Mac was kept in the dark. Furthermore, MacArthur was not nearby when Stimson was in Potsdam, whereas Eisenhower was, and Truman and Stimson liked Ike. And, again, we have documentary evidence from one of Stimson's aides that Stimson and Eisenhower discussed nuking Japan.

I might add that Eisenhower insisted to his biographer, Stephen Ambrose, that he objected to using nukes on Japan when he met with Stimson. I mentioned this fact in my reply as well, but you ignored it.

So there is ample reason to not use Eisenhower if one is trying to make the case, that the Atomic bomb was not needed. You can not use a liar, period.

My, my, my. So you, who has tried to wrap your barbarism in the flag and who has questioned the patriotism of anyone who disagrees with you--here you are calling one of our greatest WW II generals, and one of our most beloved presidents, a liar. You're no "patriot."

In point of fact, there is no credible reason to doubt that Eisenhower opposed nuking Japan before the fact. And, of course, there is no question that the more he studied the issue, the firmer he came to believe that nuking Japan was both wrong and unnecessary, as he explained in his 1963 interview with Newsweek.

 

[elektra]

Eisenhower, gives to different versions of his meeting with Stimson.

I addressed that argument in my reply.

No, they do not, not by any standard of sound scholarship. They are not mutually exclusive: it's just that the later version gives more detail. Nothing in the first version conflicts with the second version, and vice versa.

That's a simplistic, sophomoric conclusion that shows you have no understanding of serious historical research. Just because one account provides more information than the other does not mean that one of them is a "lie."

One account provides more information? Sure, one account, which is the lie, includes a lot more information. In this case though, one version is completely different. It is not simply that one contains more information, it is simply that it is very different account of something that seems to have never of happened.

In one account, Ike finds out about the Atomic Bomb before the test in New Mexico. In the 2nd account Ike finds out after.

In the 1st quote from Eisenhower's first book, Eisenhower says that he was told the bomb was soon to be detonated yet later in the same paragraph Eisenhower says he was not told that a bomb was made or was being made?

Two versions that contradict each other.

 

[elektra]

I notice you ignored the point that Gen. Omar Bradley confirmed in his memoir that Eisenhower expressed strong objections to nuking Japan when he met with Stimson. Why didn't you address that point?

???? Maybe you did not update your browser, so that you can see, that my post addressing Gen Omar Bradley, with pics from the memoir, appears right before you ask your little, late, question.

The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

 

[elektra]

My, my, my. So you, who has tried to wrap your barbarism in the flag and who has questioned the patriotism of anyone who disagrees with you--here you are calling one of our greatest WW II generals, and one of our most beloved presidents, a liar. You're no "patriot."

I will readdress this post, when I go back through your posts, and find the one where you say a patriot technically, posts just as I did. I can call Eisenhower a liar, for he wrote two versions of the same story. He did not merely add more information in the 2nd story. In the 2nd version, it is simply very different.

I have addressed Eisenhower, using his words, showing that he lied.
I have addressed Eisenhower, with your claim that Gen Omar Bradly confirms Ike's story. Bradly contradicts Eisenhower.

Care to read what MacArthur wrote?

You make many claims. Each one falls as if it is not a fact. Each claim you make falls like a leave from a tree.
Now you make many more excuses and claims in regards to Eisenhower. Not one of your claims can hold water.

Later, another day, when I am bored I will continue to show how you fail to show your OP to contain any truth.

I still love how you used Bundy, then discredited Bundy by calling him a filthy liar. That was a class one screw up on your part. Simply showing that those who do not have facts, can not weave a credible lie.

 

[Markle]

In case you haven't noticed, you're talking to yourself and NO ONE CARES.

It is over, we dropped two bombs, the war ended in days. QED

 

[eagle1462010]

yes.......................but not all.......

Then go do your work before making an ass of yourself.

Who da fck are you to demand a dang thing from me......................

In other words, you're happy being ignorant - you need to remain ignorant - because it allows you to wallow comfortably in your emotions. So much easier than thinking.

AKA [sic] Anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant..................

I never said that. You said that you had not read all of the information provided in just this one brief thread and did not care to. What would you call that if not ignorant?

I read a lot of what's in this thread...........Your opinion of my opinion doesn't matter. You are ticked off because I refuse to apologize and say the United States Sucks because we used the nukes...............

1. We didn't start the freaking war.
2. We didn't torture prisoners.
3. We didn't rape and behead civilians as a game as the Japanese did during the War.
4. They were executing POW's at the end of the War including after the 1st Nuke was dropped.
5. Japan was developing Chemical and Biological Weapons.
6. Japan was doing Human experiments on live patients for chemical and biological weapons.

They got what they deserved.....................period.............War is Murder on a grand scale...........the Nukes ended the War..............PERIOD.

We have no reason to apologize for the actions of our country to end a War we didn't start. You are just trying to play the America Sucks card.........and justify your greatness because you are a Teacher.............

That dog doesn't hunt.

 

[Unkotare]

Then go do your work before making an ass of yourself.

Who da fck are you to demand a dang thing from me......................

In other words, you're happy being ignorant - you need to remain ignorant - because it allows you to wallow comfortably in your emotions. So much easier than thinking.

AKA [sic] Anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant..................

I never said that. You said that you had not read all of the information provided in just this one brief thread and did not care to. What would you call that if not ignorant?

I read a lot of what's in this thread...........Your opinion of my opinion doesn't matter. You are ticked off because I refuse to apologize and say the United States Sucks because we used the nukes...............

No one asked you to do that, liar. Put away the straw man and grow up.

 

[Unkotare]

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1. We didn't start the freaking war.....

How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan's Attack on Pearl Harbor | Robert Higgs

Was FDR Planning on Joining World War II Before Pearl Harbor?

 

[Unkotare]

...
2. We didn't torture prisoners.......

So you wanted a souvenir? Here's a Japanese skull. - How enemy mutilation entered US mainstream in WWII


The Worst War Crimes The U.S. Committed During World War II

 

[Unkotare]

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3. We didn't rape and behead civilians as a game ......

Incinerating nearly 200,000 civilians in atomic hellfire was better?

 

[Unkotare]

.....
6. Japan was doing Human experiments on live patients.....

Tuskegee Study - Timeline - CDC - NCHHSTP

 

[Unkotare]

... You are just trying to play the America Sucks card.....

You are the only one here repeating that offensive expression.

 

[elektra]

And, what is totally ignored, is the American. The American Prisoner of War. The American still at War. The Americans who died on July 30th, the Americans who died on July31st, the Americans who died on August 1st, the Americans who died on August 2nd, the Americans who died on August 3rd, the Americans who died on August 4th, the Americans who died on August 5th, the Americans who died on August 6th, the Americans who died on August 7th, the Americans who died on August 8th, the Americans who died on August 9th, the 10th, the 11th, the 12th, the 13th, the 14th! the 15th!! the 16th!!! the 17th!!!!

When was the last American's death because of the Japanese barbaric sadistic rampage?

Nobody can answer that, because the "scholars" who can not quote correctly, the "scholars" who got "D's", hence they can not even proof read their garbage and get page numbers correct. Nobody knows cause the "scholars" are busy chasing a history that does not exist while ignoring the truth of what was War.

 

[Unkotare]

And, what is totally ignored, is the American. The American Prisoner of War. The American still at War. The Americans who died on July 30th, the Americans who died on July31st, the Americans who died on August 1st, the Americans who died on August 2nd, the Americans who died on August 3rd, the Americans who died on August 4th, the Americans who died on August 5th, the Americans who died on August 6th, the Americans who died on August 7th, the Americans who died on August 8th, the Americans who died on August 9th, the 10th, the 11th, the 12th, the 13th, the 14th! the 15th!! the 16th!!! the 17th!!!!.......

Remember all the Americans who died in the war in the time after fdr received MacArthur's memorandum before leaving for Yalta. The bloodthirsty fdr ignored the possibility of ending the war long before many, many more Americans died fighting, because fdr couldn't care less about any human life, including Americans - soldier or civilian. This is what YOU "totally ignore."