The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[montelatici]

Just facts. You do not appear to comprehend written English. Maybe an illustration of where the calculation came from will help.

 

[montelatici]

All I hear is crickets.

I love it when a propaganda debunking plan comes together.

 

[abu afak]

The crickets still await YOU Yassir.
Yes, we've seen that Incorrect map hundreds of times
Even YOU just refuted it Akhmed!
So which is it Goofy? 85%/93%?
Take a position at least!
And you'll note the/Your Stupid map says 93% Ownership, while your UN Link says in "Arabs in Possession of 85%". Possession is NOT Ownership. It's squatting.
I/CAMERA/'British Survey of Palestine' gave the correct figure for OWNERSHIP. At least 65% State owned.

And You call others propagandists: Great stuff!
You either don't speak English well or use it Disingenuously.. or Both.
I was talking about the part that became Israel which was yet more NON-Arab owned.
Still UNTOUCHED By you.

CAMERA is a propaganda site
..
164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. "

Really? 1. You're impeaching Your own "93%" Lie. LOL/OUCHER
2. 85% is ALL of Palestine (and slightly incorrect according to the British Survey's own numbers), while I was talking ONLY about the part that became Israel. Apples and Oranges, Akhmed. oooops! Speak English.
3. WHO owned the 50% of what became Israel that was the Negev Desert?
4. SPLAT!
5. Your Unispal repertoire/document dumps are very limited and leave you Rigid and Nonconversant.

Still waiting for your answer (next Lie attempt) on WHO owned the 50% of Israel that is/was the Negev Desert.
Again.... Your Unispal repertoire/document dumps are very limited and leave you Rigid and Nonconversant.
Crickets!
Crickets!
Crickets!
+

 

[montelatici]

There is nothing incorrect about UN Map no. 94. It is the result of the official survey performed by the Ad-Hoc committee on Palestine in order to organize the partition.

The 85% was an approximate figure, flattering the Jews, the 93% is the figure arrived at after the catastral survey and is depicted in text in the Survey of Palestine Vol. 2. as well, and has been posted many times.

All you idiots can do is deny verifiable fact contained in official archives and rely on propagandists that attempt to deny official facts. This Zionist game has been going on for some time.

 

[abu afak]

There is nothing incorrect about UN Map no. 94. It is the result of the official survey performed by the Ad-Hoc committee on Palestine in order to organize the partition.
The 85% was an approximate figure, flattering the Jews, the 93% is the figure arrived at after the catastral survey and is depicted in text in the Survey of Palestine Vol. 2. as well, and has been posted many times.
All you idiots can do is deny verifiable fact contained in official archives and rely on propagandists that attempt to deny official facts. This Zionist game has been going on for some time.

1. Montel-al-Williams can't get his own story straight. HE posted that it was 85%, AND 93%, contradickting himself.

2. Of course, my claim was NOT even about Overall Palestine, but rather the part that became Israel.
So you are a NONentrant in this debate due to your Lack of understanding/Ineptitude.

3. Montel confuses/Conflates "possesion" with "ownership"!
Mere possession is "Squatting".

4. You're such a Knee-Jerk Link Dumper, you are undebatable because you just throw up anything in the area, but are NONconversant on specific topics if it's not in your Unispal repertoire.

5. He now calls the UN Link HE posted Propaganda too because it contradicts.. him.
IOW, everything he disagrees with is "propaganda".

6. He was WHiFFED several times on telling us who "owned" the Negev/50% of Israel.

IOW, and overall, you are totally Inept with the language, and DISHONEST/NONresponsive in debate. Always trying to move the goal posts.
And you're getting Eviscerated.

Crickets
Crickets
Crickets
+

 

[montelatici]

You just can't handle the truth. The verifiable facts. Available to all in official archives. Whether Arabs "possessed" approximately 85% of the land as stated in UN Resolution A-364:

"The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land."

or exactly 95% of the land as calculated after the cadastral survey as depicted in the official map, is of little consequence.

Nor is the fact that the Jews owned less than 1% of the Beersheba district (which includes the Nejev) germane to the issue.

The fact is, the Arabs owned an overwhelming majority of the land.

 

[abu afak]

You just can't handle the truth. The verifiable facts. Avail to all in official archives. Whether Arabs "possessed" approximately 85% of the land as stated in UN Resolution A-364:
"The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land."
or exactly 95% of the land as calculated after the cadastral survey as depicted in the official map, is of little consequence.
Nor is the fact that the Jews owned less than 1% of the Beersheba district (which includes the Nejev) germane to the issue.
The fact is, the Arabs owned an overwhelming majority of the land.

I note you don't quote me any more... rightly Afraid I'll notice and then again Torch your FAILED posts.
You were UNABLE to address my NUMBERED points.
Numbered for easy but NONevasive reply.
YOU FAILED Again
You Cannot debate me, only Link Dump everyone else.
You are/remain NONresponsive.
AGAIN...

1. Montel-al-Williams can't get his own story straight. HE posted that it was 85%, AND 93%, contradickting himself.

2. Of course, my claim was NOT even about Overall Palestine, but rather the part that became Israel.
So you are a NONentrant in this debate due to your Lack of understanding/Ineptitude.

3. Montel confuses/Conflates "possesion" with "ownership"!
Mere possession is "Squatting".

4. You're such a Knee-Jerk Link Dumper, you are undebatable because you just throw up anything in the area, but are NONconversant on specific topics if it's not in your Unispal repertoire.

5. He now calls the UN Link HE posted Propaganda too because it contradicts.. him.
IOW, everything he disagrees with is "propaganda".

6. He was WHiFFED several times on telling us Who "Owned" the Negev/50% of Israel.

IOW, and overall, you are totally Inept with the language, and DISHONEST/NONresponsive in debate. Always trying to move the goal posts.
And you're getting Eviscerated.

Crickets
Evasion
Crickets

 

[montelatici]

You are so silly.

1. The Survey stated exactly who owned the land. If you want play games with semantics, the record shows that Arabs owned exactly 93% of the land and possessed approximately 85% of it. Take your pick.

2. 15% of the Negev was was owned by Arabs, as depicted on the map. 85% was public and less than 1% was owned by Jews. Are you implying that the public land automatically belonged to people living in Europe planning to go to Palestine and none of it was owned by the native inhabitants? They were not part of the public?

3. Your attempts at validating Zionist propaganda, that has been found out for some time now, is silly. We have access to the source documentation now. It is easily debunked. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

 

[theliq]

Then you leant nothing

Ah, yes -- all those atlases I studied when I was a kid were just part of some great conspiracy.

Hi Dog.....But you only viewed the world from America....As for me as a kid,I moved my globe and atlas to Tuva or Finland and the world takes on a different perspective completely,my friend.......and there in is the difference between us..........did you never think to expand your mind in this way......No,I think not.

Try it some time,you will be surprised.....just sayin steve.......the only conspiracies were in your head,indoctorinated by an educational system that never allowed you to roam.....that is why many Americans are so myopic of any individual thought,only what your politicians tell you.....and they have a very poor record of any reality at all.

 

[abu afak]

You are so silly.

1. The Survey stated exactly who owned the land. If you want play games with semantics, the record shows that Arabs owned exactly 93% of the land and possessed approximately 85% of it. Take your pick.

So now you're Changing again your initial Charge that the 85% Link was be flattering to Jews/Propaganda to... its correct?
you really are in a Panic from my Gutting of your posts.
You're getting creamed and making idiotic Contradictory claims. 85% of 50% of Israel was "public land" but 93% was owned by Arabs?

2. 15% of the Negev was was owned by Arabs, as depicted on the map. 85% was Public..

If 85% of the Negev was Public Land, at least 42% of Israel was Public/State Land (Israel is /was 50% Negev Desert), and at least 20% of overall Palestine was State Land.
Ergo BOTH 93% "Arab owned", and 85% are WRONG and you are TERRIBLE at math/Logic as well as a Liar with Links for every Contradicktory POS post.
OMFG!

3. Your attempts at validating Zionist propaganda, that has been found out for some time now, is silly. We have access to the source documentation now. It is easily debunked. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

Well you at least tried to answer 2 of my six points but as we see, you got Crushed even worse.
Are you really that OBTUSE that you think you can Admit 85% of the Negev was "Public" but maintain 93% of Palestine was Arab owned?
You can't be that frigging bad at math.. just so in Bigoted and in denial, you can't calculate at all.
Like claiming 2+2=5 with straight face.

 

[montelatici]

You really haven't figured out that public land was not Jewish land, have you.

 

[abu afak]

Montel-al-Williams (Math failure) has been reduced to one sentence and could only attempt 2 of my 6 points.
His English/Logic also suck, as He attempted to refute my claim that a "majority of Israel was State Land", with posts that only included "Overall/Palestine."
He STILL hasn't addressed my claim.

He doesn't understand English/logic well enough to debate...
and he lies
and he can't do math..
and his links contradict each other...
and he confused/conflated "owned" with "Posessed"/SQUATTED.
He got "93% Arab-owned" Wrong.
He 'answered' how much of Israel was state land, with how much of palestine was....
Sorry goofy, you just are undebatably BAD.

He's not used to getting GUTTED like this, rather he usually tries to intimidate with Vague large link dumps.
But I have reduced prolific al-Montel to one pathetic sentence.
Sqooosh
Last-word away tho buddy .. but You got CREAMED.

 

[montelatici]

LOL. The attempt to deflect facts is hilarious. You have nothing, son. Arabs owned almost all of Palestine and you just can't accept that fact. Bye, bye.

 

[Shusha]

You really haven't figured out that public land was not Jewish land, have you.

But public land is Arab land?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You really haven't figured out that public land was not Jewish land, have you.

But public land is Arab land?

Public land is collectively owned by the citizens.

 

[montelatici]

You really haven't figured out that public land was not Jewish land, have you.

But public land is Arab land?

Public land would be the public's therefore the 85% of the Negev desert (15% was owned by Christians or Muslims at the time) that was public would be split roughly along the population at the time, i.e. roughly 2/3s Arab and 1/3 Jewish.

Negev Desert
Arabs 15% owned outright
Arabs 2/3s of 85% (public land) = 56.666%
Jews 1/3 of 85% (public land) = 28.333%

Negev Desert overall division:

Total Arab 71.666%
Total Jewish 28.333%

But this was just in the Negev Desert, the rest of Palestine had very little public land as the U.N. map shows, so the Christians and Muslims owned an overwhelming amount of the land in Palestine, as the map confirms.

Another Zionist myth debunked.

 

[abu afak]

Poor Montel-Williams-altici has to try and make a few in a row to TRY and compensate for his Many BLUNDERS throughout
Note above there is NO "93% Arab-owned Palestine", NO "85% Arab-owned Palestine"
He got Busted.
Immediately above He says/LIES that Jews owned 1/3 of the Negev. NO They didn't. Jews got all of the State-Land Negev when it passed from the Ottomans to The British to them. NO one owned the Negev, 50% of Israel, ergo His original "93% Arab owned" palestine is False, as was "85%", his second blunder.
Realizing this he again tried to Fudge the numbers/Massage the Terms and numbers..
Here was the exchange

You are so silly.

1. The Survey stated exactly who owned the land. If you want play games with semantics, the record shows that Arabs owned exactly 93% of the land and possessed approximately 85% of it. Take your pick.

So now you're Changing again your initial Charge that the 85% Link was be flattering to Jews/Propaganda to... its correct?
you really are in a Panic from my Gutting of your posts.
You're getting creamed and making idiotic Contradictory claims. 85% of 50% of Israel was "public land" but 93% was owned by Arabs?

2. 15% of the Negev was was Owned by Arabs, as depicted on the map. 85% was Public..

If 85% of the Negev was Public Land, at least 42% of Israel was Public/State Land (Israel is /was 50% Negev Desert), and at least 20% of overall Palestine was State Land.
Ergo BOTH 93% "Arab owned", and 85% are WRONG and you are TERRIBLE at math/Logic as well as a Liar with Links for every Contradictory POS post.
OMFG!

3. Your attempts at validating Zionist propaganda, that has been found out for some time now, is silly. We have access to the source documentation now. It is easily debunked. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

Well you at least tried to answer 2 of my six points but as we see, you got Crushed even worse.
Are you really that OBTUSE that you think you can Admit 85% of the Negev was "Public" but maintain 93% of Palestine was Arab owned?
You can't be that frigging bad at math.. just so in Bigoted and in denial, you can't calculate at all.
Like claiming 2+2=5 with straight face.

Last word away Akhmed.
You still got PORKED

Again:
Immediately above He says/LIES that Jews owned 1/3 of the Negev. NO They didn't. Jews got all of the State-Land Negev when it passed from the Ottomans to The British to them. NO one owned the Negev, 50% of Israel, ergo His original "93% Arab owned" palestine is False, as was "85%", his second self-contradicting blunder.
+
EDIT 1 to below:
note Montel, the 'Zionist'-obsessed Klown, will respond within 20 minutes at ANY time of day.
But he won't quote me, as he doesn't want to see it/get embarrassed by it again, nor have me alerted he did reply, and get Crushed again.

Edit 2: and note Two posts below.
So embarrassed, He's back with... More/Different Numbers and Terms!
+

 

[montelatici]

I realize that being made a fool causes ranting, but take it easy. Yes, 93% of Palestine was Arab owned as reported by the UN. The Negev was 15% Arab owned, also as reported by the UN.

You seem to be crushing yourself.

 

[montelatici]

By the way, your rants allow me to respond and make the point even clearer. From Survey of Palestine Vol. 2, page 566 available at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive, NYU-Wagner University:

A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

 

[Coyote]

No. I've never argued Israel is not legitimate or legal. States come into being in many different ways. Israel is here, it exists, it has for some time now, it's legitimate as far as I am concerned and the world in 2016 is a different place than the world at the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. The way I understand it, the Mandate was an agreement amongst the allied powers only to sort out the division of Palestine. No promises were made to any else.

This is Palestine.

It was created in 1920, so anybody born there is indiginous. Since Jews, Arabs, and Druze have been born there, they would be considered such.

Now, since Arabs cannot get along with anybody, it was necessary to divide the territory in such a way that the portion of the population they routinely persecute was to have a place to exercise their self-determination.

My question to you is this: If you claim to support such legitimacy, why does the entirety of your posting history on the subject consist of attacking it while championing the agenda of the Arabs who do?

Where have I attacked Israel's legitimacy? I've always stated I support it's right to exist as a state. What I don't support is it's "right" to claim the entire Palestine as it's own. My "championing" of the rights of the Palestinians is limited to their right to a state so I'm not clear on what you mean by "championing the agenda of the Arabs"? I'm firm supporter of a two state solution (maybe three, if Gaza can't be connected).

This entire sidebar as to who is "indiginous" only distracts from the issue of legitimacy. If you believe Israel is legitimate, why all these thousands of postings attacking such? I would think if you found Israel to be legitimate, your main concern would be issues of realpolitic instead of propaganda, and you would be focused on ways to figure out the best ways to administer to the division of this territory called Palestine.

I couldn't agree more. The indiginous argument is serves only one purpose and that is for one side or the other to disenfranchise the rights of the other or to derail threads (the main reason for the creation of this thread). That also I have said multiple times. I've also said, multiple times, that the indiginous people's consist of a variety of religious and ethnic groups who have roots there for centuries if not millenia.

One person's propaganda can be another person's realpolitic - it's in the eye of the beholder.

On one hand, you have the Israeli settler movement and Eratz Israel types pushing for more land. On the other hand, you have an entire subculture of Arabs who celebrate mass murder and elect leadership promising genocide. With all your focusing of criticism against Israel, you conveniently ignore all the savagery ingrained into this dysfunctional Arab subculture.

And how many pro-Israeli's here are willing to ever criticize Israel?