montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
- 18,686
- 2,107
This is Palestine.
It was created in 1920, so anybody born there is indiginous. Since Jews, Arabs, and Druze have been born there, they would be considered such.
Now, since Arabs cannot get along with anybody, it was necessary to divide the territory in such a way that the portion of the population they routinely persecute was to have a place to exercise their self-determination.
My question to you is this: If you claim to support such legitimacy, why does the entirety of your posting history on the subject consist of attacking it while championing the agenda of the Arabs who do?
Where have I attacked Israel's legitimacy? I've always stated I support it's right to exist as a state. What I don't support is it's "right" to claim the entire Palestine as it's own. My "championing" of the rights of the Palestinians is limited to their right to a state so I'm not clear on what you mean by "championing the agenda of the Arabs"? I'm firm supporter of a two state solution (maybe three, if Gaza can't be connected).
I couldn't agree more. The indiginous argument is serves only one purpose and that is for one side or the other to disenfranchise the rights of the other or to derail threads (the main reason for the creation of this thread). That also I have said multiple times. I've also said, multiple times, that the indiginous people's consist of a variety of religious and ethnic groups who have roots there for centuries if not millenia.
One person's propaganda can be another person's realpolitic - it's in the eye of the beholder.
And how many pro-Israeli's here are willing to ever criticize Israel?
You have indulged in at least three fallacies right here.
First of all, the "they do it too" argument is no excuse for your own. I have no problem criticizing the attitudes of the minority of the Jewish population as represented by the militant Settlers. I have yet to see you criticize the great majority of this new people called Palestinian for their incredible degree of ethnic hatred. Even when they vote into power those committed to genocide, you find ways to make excuses or else side-step the issue. At no point have I seen you criticize anything about the truly awful belief systems the large majority of Palestinians hold.
The second fallacy lies in your "eye of the beholder" comment, which represents such an extreme moral relativism as to be nihilistic. You might as well offer that putrid "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" nonsense so common to those who promote the same agenda as you.
The third error lies in your statement about Israel wanting it all. As you can see so clearly from the map I provided and which Abu Afak keeps mentioning is that they DON'T have it all. They have just a tiny piece. Perhaps this is more a matter of dishonesty on your part than fallacious reasoning, but keeping it real would go a long way towards making your positions more credible.
In any case, should you desire to raise the level of your discourse, here is a little run down on some logical fallacies.
List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Learning some of these might help you avoid the "well, they do it too" sorts of excuses as well as various others.
1. It is understandable to any neutral observer, that people that have undergone oppression, ethnic cleansing, periodic massacres and 24/7 discrimination would have a deep hate for the oppressor. Israelis, on the other hand, oppress as well as hate the Christians and Muslims they have under their control. Israel are also constantly calling for the genocide and/or ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews. Government ministers like Naftali Bennet casually state that it is no big deal killing Arabs: "(I)personally killed "lots of Arabs" and "there is no problem in that"".
'I've Killed lots of Arabs' says Israeli Minister Bennett as Washington Peace Talks Begin
or the Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked with the Gaza children being "little snakes" and her call for genocide as reported in even U.S. newspapers
2. Terrorist or Freedom Fighter is based on one's point of view.
a. The Contras were labelled murderous terrorists by the Europeans (and most of the world) while the U.S. armed them and labelled them Freedom Fighters.
b. The Muhajedin in Afghanistan, that burned Russian built girls schools to the ground with the students in them (and committed many other atrocities) were labelled Freedom Fighters by the U.S. when they were fighting the Russians. Their children, re-named Taliban, became terrorists overnight when they didn't follow the U.S. line.
c. Until 2008, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, Freedom Fighters to part of the world were labelled terrorists by the U.S. and the UK.
d. Israel which hopes to change the Palestinian's support for Hamas in Gaza through brutal bombings and the massacre of thousands, mostly women and children, is considered an ally by the U.S. and "defending itself". While terrorizing a population to achieve a political objective is the most common definition of terrorism.
3. Your map is a made up piece of Zionist propaganda, garbage, that has no basis in historical fact or reality. It is one of the Playbook tactics that Zionists know is bullshit, but is used to muddy the waters. Trans-Jordan was never part of Palestine as a territory. Before falling to the British it was a province of the Arab Kingdom of Syria and was never intended for any other people but the indigenous Bedouins to be ruled by a Hashemite (Bedouin) ruler. A leader Britain had promised to reward for his family's help against the Turks.
