The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Boston1]

Its a no brainer

This isn't a natural increase in population.
Its an invasion

I'm going to politely call it the second Arab colonial period.

Although an argument could be made that it was a deliberate attempt to thwart the aspirations of the native people to reestablish a toehold in their native homeland through the peaceful purchase of land

 

[montelatici]

UNITED​

NATIONS​

A

• 
  General Assembly

A/364
3 September 1947

OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF ​

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY​

​

​

UNITED NATIONS
SPECIAL COMMITTEE
ON PALESTINE



REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

VOLUME 1





Lake Success
New York
1947








(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3

 

[Boston1]

LMAO

Sorry but A the UN isn't exactly the census bureau
and B the 57 0r 58 country strong Muslim voting block in the UN isn't exactly an unbiassed reporter of middle eastern issues.

In a nut shell I'm still waiting to hear how the second Arab colonial period expansion in Judea could possibly be from simple fecundity

 

[montelatici]

Hmmm, the same UN people that outvoted the Arab states to give the European Jews a part of Palestine wrote that resolution. How peculiar. LOL

 

[Hollie]

Hmmm, the same UN people that outvoted the Arab states to give the European Jews a part of Palestine wrote that resolution. How peculiar. LOL

Hmmm. The same Arabs/Moslems who worship a 1,400 year old hate and war manual that vilifies non-islamists have yet to claw their way out of their self-inflicted Dark Ages. How typical. LOL.

 

[Phoenall]

Hmmm, the same UN people that outvoted the Arab states to give the European Jews a part of Palestine wrote that resolution. How peculiar. LOL

All in line with International laws of the time, after all the Palestinians did lose the war they took part in from 1914 and had to pay the price for backing the wrong side

 

[Challenger]

Sorry but A the UN isn't exactly the census bureau
and B the 57 0r 58 country strong Muslim voting block in the UN isn't exactly an unbiassed reporter of middle eastern issues.

In a nut shell I'm still waiting to hear how the second Arab colonial period expansion in Judea could possibly be from simple fecundity

No, but it received it's information from the Mandatory power, Britain, who provided the census data widely recognised by all sides as being the most reliably accurate. The UN doesn't get to vote on the accuracy of data in any event. Having read the blog accompanying your graph, I'm waiting to see any evidence of a "second Arab colonial period". Palestinian fecundity has never been an issue, even with Jewish demographers. The only person with a bee in her bonnet about this is the widely debunked Joan Peters...and you.

 

[Challenger]

worship a 1,400 year old hate and war manual

Sounds more like the Old Testement/Torah to me...

 

[Boston1]

Sorry but A the UN isn't exactly the census bureau
and B the 57 0r 58 country strong Muslim voting block in the UN isn't exactly an unbiassed reporter of middle eastern issues.

In a nut shell I'm still waiting to hear how the second Arab colonial period expansion in Judea could possibly be from simple fecundity

No, but it received it's information from the Mandatory power, Britain, who provided the census data widely recognised by all sides as being the most reliably accurate. The UN doesn't get to vote on the accuracy of data in any event. Having read the blog accompanying your graph, I'm waiting to see any evidence of a "second Arab colonial period". Palestinian fecundity has never been an issue, even with Jewish demographers. The only person with a bee in her bonnet about this is the widely debunked Joan Peters...and you.

Wrong, it obtained its census data from each side individually, one side the Judaic side reported honestly and attempted to keep good records, the other side the Arabs, refused to consider any arabs as immigrants and reported only partial totals. Refusing to conduct anything but estimates.

You fail to understand the level of deceit involved in the Arab narrative

The vast majority of Arab Muslims in the mandate area virtually have to be immigrants.

There is no other way to explain this graph.

The simple fact is that the Arab Muslims originated on the Arab Peninsula and invaded/colonized the rest of N Africa and points beyond

 

[Humanity]

Hmmm, the same UN people that outvoted the Arab states to give the European Jews a part of Palestine wrote that resolution. How peculiar. LOL

All in line with International laws of the time, after all the Palestinians did lose the war they took part in from 1914 and had to pay the price for backing the wrong side

Concentration Camps were in line with international law in Nazi Germany....

Laws change for a reason Phoney... Hopefully for the better of humanity!

Indigenous and non indigenous peoples were rounded up and thrown into concentration camps...

Were the German Jews indigenous to Germany?

The clue there is "German Jews"...

 

[Challenger]

There is no other way to explain this graph.

So now you change your graph, where's the underlying data for this one? care to provide a link or have you just made this one up as appears to be your habit?

So far the data you've produced only points to a Jewish/Zionist invasion.

 

[Phoenall]

Sorry but A the UN isn't exactly the census bureau
and B the 57 0r 58 country strong Muslim voting block in the UN isn't exactly an unbiassed reporter of middle eastern issues.

In a nut shell I'm still waiting to hear how the second Arab colonial period expansion in Judea could possibly be from simple fecundity

No, but it received it's information from the Mandatory power, Britain, who provided the census data widely recognised by all sides as being the most reliably accurate. The UN doesn't get to vote on the accuracy of data in any event. Having read the blog accompanying your graph, I'm waiting to see any evidence of a "second Arab colonial period". Palestinian fecundity has never been an issue, even with Jewish demographers. The only person with a bee in her bonnet about this is the widely debunked Joan Peters...and you.

Wrong, it obtained its census data from each side individually, one side the Judaic side reported honestly and attempted to keep good records, the other side the Arabs, refused to consider any arabs as immigrants and reported only partial totals. Refusing to conduct anything but estimates.

You fail to understand the level of deceit involved in the Arab narrative

The vast majority of Arab Muslims in the mandate area virtually have to be immigrants.

There is no other way to explain this graph.

The simple fact is that the Arab Muslims originated on the Arab Peninsula and invaded/colonized the rest of N Africa and points beyond

The members of team Palestine forget that one of their poster children stood up in the house of Commons and told the assembled politicians that the arab muslims had flooded into Palestine as illegal immigrants. That this was the only way the numbers of arab muslims could have increased in the numbers they did. His was a first hand experience of the problem, and not the re-telling of a report passed through countless hands altered and embellished at every stop

 

[Phoenall]

Hmmm, the same UN people that outvoted the Arab states to give the European Jews a part of Palestine wrote that resolution. How peculiar. LOL

All in line with International laws of the time, after all the Palestinians did lose the war they took part in from 1914 and had to pay the price for backing the wrong side

Concentration Camps were in line with international law in Nazi Germany....

Laws change for a reason Phoney... Hopefully for the better of humanity!

Indigenous and non indigenous peoples were rounded up and thrown into concentration camps...

Were the German Jews indigenous to Germany?

The clue there is "German Jews"...

Don't you mean in line with German law

Yes laws change, but not those based on treaties which are more difficult to alter

True and it was the work of socialist workers just as it was in Russia a few years earlier

YES as they had lived there since being brought as slaves by the Roman Empire

The clue here is your inability to keep on topic, so have to deflect when you are shown to be wrong.

Did the arab muslims we now know as Palestinians not side with the Ottomans and fight against the British

Did they not lose that war and subsequently lose any rights to claim the land they passed through every year

 

[Phoenall]

There is no other way to explain this graph.

So now you change your graph, where's the underlying data for this one? care to provide a link or have you just made this one up as appears to be your habit?

So far the data you've produced only points to a Jewish/Zionist invasion.

The report by Churchill to the house of his first hand experience in Palestine calls you a LIAR and points to a massive arab muslim illegal migration in the period from 1920 till 1945

 

[Boston1]

There is no other way to explain this graph.

So now you change your graph, where's the underlying data for this one? care to provide a link or have you just made this one up as appears to be your habit?

So far the data you've produced only points to a Jewish/Zionist invasion.

So in your mind now having multiple sources for the information thats a bad thing ? Well thats just brilliant. And a graph showing ARAB immigration is somehow indicative of Israeli success ?

Damn, you are confused.

You know any rational observer would read that last and wonder just why reality is so difficult for you. The Arab Muslims developed on the Arab peninsula and the Judaic people developed in Judea. Its really quite simple, unless that is your so blinded by hate you think all the world is yours and nobody else's.

Its another aspect of you and your ilk just changing definitions to suit your views

Quote

Indigenous people are people defined in international or national legislation as having a set of specific rights based on their historical ties to a particular territory, and their cultural or historical distinctiveness from other populations that are often politically dominant.

End Quote

Although national legislation is not a prerequisite.

Quote

in·dig·e·nous

inˈdijənəs/

adjective

adjective: indigenous

1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native."the indigenous peoples of Siberia"
2. synonyms:
3. native, original, aboriginal, autochthonous;

End Quote

And again

Quote

indigenous

in·dig·e·nous (ĭn-dĭj′ə-nəs)

adj.

1. Originating, growing, or produced in a certain place or region. See Synonyms at native.

2.

a. Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.

b. Of, belonging to, or characteristic of such inhabitants.


[From Latin indigena, a native; see indigene.]


in·dig′e·nous·ly adv.

End Quote

Not to much wiggle room on that one eh mate. Looks like if your culture and people developed somewhere else and then moved to a new area your not indigenous to that new area now are you ;--)

The Arab Muslims aren't from Judea ergo they are NOT the indigenous people

 

[Challenger]

So in your mind now having multiple sources for the information thats a bad thing ?

Just a source for the data in that graph would be sufficient, otherwise it just looks like you are making things up.

 

[Challenger]

The Arab Muslims aren't from Judea ergo they are NOT the indigenous people

Unfortunately for your "argument" the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine were a mix of ethnicities, some of whom adopted Judaism, or Christianity, or any of the many Pagan cults of the area over the centuries until ultimately they converted to Islam and adopted Arab culture.

In the 13th Century Judaism was "reinvented" in Palestine by Moses ben Nahman, a Jewish Spaniard who wrote at the time that when he arrived there were only a total of 12 Jewish "worshippers" in Jerusalem. Moses is widely credited with re-introducing Judaism into the area; building a synagogue and encouraging the establishment of yeshivas. Ironically, in his correspndence he writes how, living in Jerusalem he felt the strong pangs of his exile from Spain.

The European Jewish Zionist colonists were, on the other hand, descendants of European converts, and after 1948, more Jewish immigrants arrived Berbers from Morocco and Tunisia; Jewish Arabs from Iraq and elswhere. Religion, however, does not on its own grant indigenous status.

 

[Boston1]

Knowing how blinded you are by Joooo hatred and hasbara nonsense how about a number of sources, although I'm sure you'll find something to complain about.


arab immigration

The fact of Arab Immigration during the early to mid 20 century is so well established that you really don't hear it questioned much anymore but yeah.

its a no brainer

You can plot the graph yourself if you are having trouble reading

Just be sure and use enough sources to get a fair representation. Also one cannot go with the term Immigrant as the Arabs didn't seem to comprehend the term back in the times specified or even today for that matter.

 

[Boston1]

The Arab Muslims aren't from Judea ergo they are NOT the indigenous people

Unfortunately for your "argument" the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine were a mix of ethnicities, some of whom adopted Judaism, or Christianity, or any of the many Pagan cults of the area over the centuries until ultimately they converted to Islam and adopted Arab culture.

In the 13th Century Judaism was "reinvented" in Palestine by Moses ben Nahman, a Jewish Spaniard who wrote at the time that when he arrived there were only a total of 12 Jewish "worshippers" in Jerusalem. Moses is widely credited with re-introducing Judaism into the area; building a synagogue and encouraging the establishment of yeshivas. Ironically, in his correspndence he writes how, living in Jerusalem he felt the strong pangs of his exile from Spain.

The European Jewish Zionist colonists were, on the other hand, descendants of European converts, and after 1948, more Jewish immigrants arrived Berbers from Morocco and Tunisia; Jewish Arabs from Iraq and elswhere. Religion, however, does not on its own grant indigenous status.

Thank you for the laughs, man, you are better than the morning funnies any day.

You cannot be seriously suggesting that Judaism was lost and then rediscovered in the 13th century, thats just a hoot if there ever was one.

Talk about desperate attempts to disenfranchise a native peoples existence. WOW

OK so do go on about how the Arab Muslims DIDN"T evolve on the Arab Peninsula ;--)

 

[montelatici]

Most Arab-speaking people outside of Arabia have very Arabian genetic background. Just as most Spanish speaking people outside of Spain have little Spanish genetic background.

As far as immigration. The facts are clear as per the official census figures of the Mandatory as reported by the UN prior to partition in UN Resolution A 364.

"(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."



A/364 of 3 September 1947