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Yes, as I explained, they might have created this whole mess for nothing. Their claims that Muslims built their temple on top of Jewish ones do not appear to hold water. They very well might have been praying at a wall that was actually just a wall of their Roman conquerors. The irony, I know.
We actually might be able to end this by simply looking at the facts.
I have said from the start that when the narrative is proven false, change the narrative, not the facts.Religion is not about facts but about belief. Even assuming what you are saying is factual, that is not going to change thousands of years of history and belief. Your idea of a path to peace would seem to be Jews giving up what the believe and quietly leaving it all to the Muslims rather than a mutual acceotance and tolerance of each oters rights to worship.
Beliefs are fine, but if understanding simple facts can lead to peace, I would chose to abandon my beliefs for the sake of both truth and peace.
Sounds to me as if this guy Finkelstein has an agenda.The Scriptures treat Israel as a secondary kingdom of no importance, a place of incorrigible sinners, whereas Judah is considered the great and just kingdom whose capital is Jerusalem, where King Solomon established a splendid temple during the glorious era of the united monarchy. Finkelstein is dubious about the existence of this great united monarchy.
"There is no archaeological evidence for it," he says. "This is something unexampled in history. I don't think there is any other place in the world where there was a city with such a wretched material infrastructure but which succeeded in creating such a sweeping movement in its favor as Jerusalem, which even in its time of greatness was a joke in comparison to the cities of Assyria, Babylon or Egypt. It was a typical mountain village. There is no magnificent finding, no gates of Nebuchadnezzar, no Assyrian reliefs, no Egyptian temples - nothing. Even the temple couldn't compete with the temples of Egypt and their splendor."
read more: Grounds for disbelief
Sounds to me as if this guy Finkelstein has an agenda.The Scriptures treat Israel as a secondary kingdom of no importance, a place of incorrigible sinners, whereas Judah is considered the great and just kingdom whose capital is Jerusalem, where King Solomon established a splendid temple during the glorious era of the united monarchy. Finkelstein is dubious about the existence of this great united monarchy.
"There is no archaeological evidence for it," he says. "This is something unexampled in history. I don't think there is any other place in the world where there was a city with such a wretched material infrastructure but which succeeded in creating such a sweeping movement in its favor as Jerusalem, which even in its time of greatness was a joke in comparison to the cities of Assyria, Babylon or Egypt. It was a typical mountain village. There is no magnificent finding, no gates of Nebuchadnezzar, no Assyrian reliefs, no Egyptian temples - nothing. Even the temple couldn't compete with the temples of Egypt and their splendor."
read more: Grounds for disbelief
There is layer upon layer of holy ruins beneath Jerusalem, and particularly under The Dome of the Rock. Digs aren't allowed there. Did he sift the sands of the entire desert to "prove" the Israeli's didn't pass through there?
So what if it wasn't as big as Egypt's temples? WTF was as big as those?
Sounds to me as if this guy Finkelstein has an agenda.The Scriptures treat Israel as a secondary kingdom of no importance, a place of incorrigible sinners, whereas Judah is considered the great and just kingdom whose capital is Jerusalem, where King Solomon established a splendid temple during the glorious era of the united monarchy. Finkelstein is dubious about the existence of this great united monarchy.
"There is no archaeological evidence for it," he says. "This is something unexampled in history. I don't think there is any other place in the world where there was a city with such a wretched material infrastructure but which succeeded in creating such a sweeping movement in its favor as Jerusalem, which even in its time of greatness was a joke in comparison to the cities of Assyria, Babylon or Egypt. It was a typical mountain village. There is no magnificent finding, no gates of Nebuchadnezzar, no Assyrian reliefs, no Egyptian temples - nothing. Even the temple couldn't compete with the temples of Egypt and their splendor."
read more: Grounds for disbelief
There is layer upon layer of holy ruins beneath Jerusalem, and particularly under The Dome of the Rock. Digs aren't allowed there. Did he sift the sands of the entire desert to "prove" the Israeli's didn't pass through there?
So what if it wasn't as big as Egypt's temples? WTF was as big as those?
And let's say, just for the sake of argument, that the Hebrews didn't wander the desert for 40 years. That still has no bearing on the fact that there was a Judean Kingdom.
But it isnt simple facts. There are no simple facts available from thousands of years ago. Much is guesswork on how to interpret tje evidence found in archaeology, historical narratives, etc. There is often dosagreement among them.I have said from the start that when the narrative is proven false, change the narrative, not the facts.Religion is not about facts but about belief. Even assuming what you are saying is factual, that is not going to change thousands of years of history and belief. Your idea of a path to peace would seem to be Jews giving up what the believe and quietly leaving it all to the Muslims rather than a mutual acceotance and tolerance of each oters rights to worship.
Beliefs are fine, but if understanding simple facts can lead to peace, I would chose to abandon my beliefs for the sake of both truth and peace.
But it isnt simple facts. There are no simple facts available from thousands of years ago. Much is guesswork on how to interpret tje evidence found in archaeology, historical narratives, etc. There is often dosagreement among them.I have said from the start that when the narrative is proven false, change the narrative, not the facts.Religion is not about facts but about belief. Even assuming what you are saying is factual, that is not going to change thousands of years of history and belief. Your idea of a path to peace would seem to be Jews giving up what the believe and quietly leaving it all to the Muslims rather than a mutual acceotance and tolerance of each oters rights to worship.
Beliefs are fine, but if understanding simple facts can lead to peace, I would chose to abandon my beliefs for the sake of both truth and peace.
You are taking the work of two people and presenting it as fact and sufficient reason for a people to abandon some of the central tenets of their faith.
It is cherry picked, unsurprisingly.But it isnt simple facts. There are no simple facts available from thousands of years ago. Much is guesswork on how to interpret tje evidence found in archaeology, historical narratives, etc. There is often dosagreement among them.I have said from the start that when the narrative is proven false, change the narrative, not the facts.Religion is not about facts but about belief. Even assuming what you are saying is factual, that is not going to change thousands of years of history and belief. Your idea of a path to peace would seem to be Jews giving up what the believe and quietly leaving it all to the Muslims rather than a mutual acceotance and tolerance of each oters rights to worship.
Beliefs are fine, but if understanding simple facts can lead to peace, I would chose to abandon my beliefs for the sake of both truth and peace.
You are taking the work of two people and presenting it as fact and sufficient reason for a people to abandon some of the central tenets of their faith.
Also not accurately representing the work of the two people.
But if the Jews have been praying at the wrong wall, well then, problem solved. At least a major one regarding the Mount.Much of the archaeology centers around the question of how grand the kingdom of David and Solomon was. But, as Jews, we just finished celebrating the festival of Hanukkah. There is absolutely no doubt at all that the Maccabean Hasmonean Kingdom of Judea existed. So it's no use trying to rewrite history that is very well documented. You can argue about the veracity of the Garden of Eden's existence, but not Judea's existence.
2002?...hilarious.Shusha has been asking about this and as biblical stories are central to the zionist narrative, I thought I'd give it a shot. Does this offer the Palestinian people any hope? I guess it depends if we can put science ahead of biblical tales, thus being able to change the narrative... and no, not an easy ask.
Back in 2002, two archeologists, Israel Finkelstein from Israel and Neil Asher Silberman from America, but who studied archeology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, published a book that had the zionists going crazy because both of these men were highly respected in their field.
Israel Finkelstein - Wikipedia
Neil Asher Silberman - Wikipedia
What is strange is that this was not the first time that this information had been published. Their work actually replicated prior work that was done by another Israeli, Ze'ev Herzog, who published many of the same findings in 1999.
So, what are these findings and why did the zionists become enraged?
Herzog cites evidence supporting that "the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the god of Israel, Jehovah, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai".
Ze'ev Herzog - Wikipedia
...many of the most famous stories in the Bible—the wanderings of the patriarchs, the Exodus from Egypt, Joshua’s conquest of Canaan, and David and Solomon’s vast empire—reflect the world of the later authors rather than actual historical facts...
https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136&tag=ff0d01-20
Food for thought?
But there is no evidence that either temple was there and all the evidence points to that being a wall of a Roman fortress. If there were those temples, they were likely close in the City of David.2002?...hilarious.
They have been finding tons of evidence all around the Temple Mount in the last few years, jerkwad.
We pray all over the world.But if the Jews have been praying at the wrong wall, well then, problem solved. At least a major one regarding the Mount.Much of the archaeology centers around the question of how grand the kingdom of David and Solomon was. But, as Jews, we just finished celebrating the festival of Hanukkah. There is absolutely no doubt at all that the Maccabean Hasmonean Kingdom of Judea existed. So it's no use trying to rewrite history that is very well documented. You can argue about the veracity of the Garden of Eden's existence, but not Judea's existence.
There's tons of evidence you Jew hating POS.But there is no evidence that either temple was there and all the evidence points to that being a wall of a Roman fortress. If there were those temples, they were likely close in the City of David.2002?...hilarious.
They have been finding tons of evidence all around the Temple Mount in the last few years, jerkwad.
You are funny. I was using only Jewish sources and even the bible. Go read the thread before you blow a gasket.There's tons of evidence you Jew hating POS.
But since the only site you are allowed to visit is FuckTheJews.org you'll never know.
And I'm not going to spoonful an asshole like you.
The Western Wall is not the Temple Wall and we've known this since time immemorial you dunce.But if the Jews have been praying at the wrong wall, well then, problem solved. At least a major one regarding the Mount.We pray all over the world.
Is my shul not being on The Temple Mount not a valid place in which to pray?
You were using a Jewish source found on a Jew hating site that has already been disproven in 2017.You are funny. I was using only Jewish sources and even the bible. Go read the thread before you blow a gasket.There's tons of evidence you Jew hating POS.
But since the only site you are allowed to visit is FuckTheJews.org you'll never know.
And I'm not going to spoonful an asshole like you.
Oh, cool, I keep hearing the Muslims built all that stuff 1000 years ago on top of Jewish temples. Please alert your zionists. We can end this madness.The Western Wall is not the Temple Wall and we've known this since time immemorial you dunce.
