The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[jon_berzerk]

justice was served

now on to prosecuting the state attorneys

Very difficult to establish Jon. There is a protection in the law against such lawsuits called "prosecutorial immunity". Basically, you have to show hatred and ill will which led to bringing charges that they knew were false and fraudulent.

Lets put it this way... I bet not very many attorneys would be willing to take such a case on a contingency fee basis.

Any news on sanctions against the prosecution for discovery violations?

There was incalculable racist hate & ill will that lead the state to charge GZ. It should be easy to prove they knew the charges were false and fraudulent. They had no coherent theory from the start & even changed their theory as the trial progressed.

the state got busted from the inside that is was purposefully withholding

important evidence from the defense

 

[testarosa]

justice was served

now on to prosecuting the state attorneys

Very difficult to establish Jon. There is a protection in the law against such lawsuits called "prosecutorial immunity". Basically, you have to show hatred and ill will which led to bringing charges that they knew were false and fraudulent.

Lets put it this way... I bet not very many attorneys would be willing to take such a case on a contingency fee basis.

Any news on sanctions against the prosecution for discovery violations?

morning legal

yes i know it is hard

the hatred and ill will is there we seen it happen

all they way up and into the closing


what did the state use for evidence in this case

Could be -might have been -and maybe

as omara said so eloquently "seriously"

and then there is the cover up as well

the only way for true justice to prevail in the long run

is to weed out this corruption

the door into this is though the firing of IT supervisor Ben Kruidbos

Are they going to do sanctions or did that whisper away?

I posted dis in da udda thread:

The problem with that is the governor, Pam Bondi and Angela Corey are all in bed together. I don't know where the remedy would come from, that's why I've been so damn mad about it. This is government corruption at it's finest.

This is an R state - so much so they elected a crook responsible for the largest Medicare fraud in US history and bought the election with 27 mil of his own money. So unless everyone sashays across the isle come election time, I don't see where the relief on massive amount of misconduct in this case is going to come from. That's a bitter pill to swallow.


pRick Scott's baby:

In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA pled guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in US history. Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors "loans" never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies.[3][4][5][6][7]

In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.[31] In all, civil law suits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, by far the largest fraud settlement in US history.[32]

 

[Katzndogz]

The problem with a federal civil rights prosecution is the the DOJ has already investigated and closed their case. While they can reopen it, they would have to turn over all of that prior investigation to the defense including the reasons why it was closed to begin with. Also, the defense now has all the exculpatory evidence that was illegally withheld in the state's case.

Unless obama has a desire to get another public black eye, he'll stay out of it.

Double Jeopardy is also a problem:

The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides, "No person shall … be subject for the same offence [sic] to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb." This provision, known as the Double Jeopardy Clause, prohibits state and federal governments from prosecuting individuals for the same crime on more than one occasion, or imposing more than one punishment for a single offense. Each of the 50 states offers similar protection through its own constitution, statutes, and Common Law.

double jeopardy legal definition of double jeopardy. double jeopardy synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Double jeopardy is not a problem because the federal government is considered a separate sovereign and the defendant is not being tried twice in the same court by the same entity.

Perhaps this discussion will help.

Expanding Double Jeopardy | Cato Institute

 

[Foxfyre]

And what may make a tragedy even more tragic is that this likely isn't over for Zimmerman.

The story now is that the DOJ will likely bring violation of civil rights charges against Zimmerman and, because of presumed wrongful death, that could include prison time up to and including life imprisonment or even the death penalty. The NAACP is pushing for that.

And, the Martins have allegedly received over a million dollars in contributions for the purpose of going after Zimmerman on their own civil wrongful death suit that could drain him of every asset he owns.

The only ace in the hole Zimmerman holds is an innocent verdict in the the criminal trial and that the evidence the judge wouldn't allow in the trial would be fair game from now on--the photos, the text messages and tweets, the marijuana and women's jewelry, the whole nine yards. If the Martins really want to preserve the reputation of their son, they will ask everybody to now drop it and move on.

The evidence already was that this was not racially motivated. That makes a DOJ suit highly unlikely. It wold also be unpopular generally and would drag into the 2014 election.
So I dont think it will happen.

The NAACP however is pushing it. And that is could be sufficient reason for the DOJ to get involved. Whoever is running for election or re-election in 2014 will want those votes.

 

[paulitician]

CNN and NBC should be prosecuted next. How can they call themselves legitimate News Organizations. They had the man convicted before he received a fair trial. This has possibly been the most heinous malicious act of Media Bias i've ever witnessed. I mean, CNN and NBC were right up front in your face with their obvious Bias. They can no longer be considered legitimate News Outlets. Shame on em.

 

[alan1]

For three weeks I watched the George Zimmerman trial, I researched case law, and picked the brains of other posters qualified in the law. From the moment Zimmerman was arrested, I knew he was a political target. And then from that moment on, I knew he wasn't guilty of anything. This man was used and vilified by a good many people here. To those I say, you were wrong. To those who thought this was some sort of game: You were wrong. As for those who chose to exploit the pain and grief of a mother and father who lost their child in all of this, you were wrong as well.

You were wrong for making assumptions without base about a man you hardly ever knew. This issue was filled with the disease of racism and politics. Not only did we dishonor the memory of the fallen in doing so, we disrespected the family of the survivor. This entire thing reeked of hatred. Now I must ask you: What if you were the one being falsely accused for defending yourself? What if you became a political target for ruthless persecution and vilification? What does it matter who followed who? To lose a child, you must know pain on a personal level nobody else can imagine.

Throughout this trial, the idiocy of the charges brought against George Zimmerman were clearly revealed. The motivations behind them were made clearer. Yet some of us chose to succumb to the disinformation fed to them by the media and by their party. But now I hope, since Zimmerman has been found not guilty by the due diligence of a jury of his peers and his attorneys, that this serves a lesson to some. Politics can never get in the way of justice. For those of us who thought this was an issue of race. You were wrong. Justice will always prevail.

Hey, I thought for sure that the political pressure would be such that they would have gotten a lesser degree conviction. Not because I thought he was guilty, but because politics in this country is out of control and all powerful.

I was wrong.

I'll try My best to get over it.

I too was very wrong as I thought from being a former Iowan the jury member also a former Iowan would succumb to the "racist" component.

Obviously the FACTS in the case were so overwhelming that what ever racial bias the former Iowan had as well as the other members was
enough to declare him not guilty.

Just a note... Notice the finding was "NOT Guilty"...
The specific words mean "not enough evidence to convict under the requirements of manslaughter..(which by the way.. shouldn't it be politically correct to change it to "personslaughter"???)! This verdict doesn't say though he was "innocent"!

That is because the only two options are either "Guilty" or "Not guilty".

 

[NYcarbineer]

For three weeks I watched the George Zimmerman trial, I researched case law, and picked the brains of other posters qualified in the law. From the moment Zimmerman was arrested, I knew he was a political target. And then from that moment on, I knew he wasn't guilty of anything.

From the moment he was arrested you knew he wasn't guilty of anything?

lol, this from the same guy who insisted obsessively that I had to PROVE Obama wasn't guilty in the IRS affair,

or I'd lost the argument.

You people are funny.

I can guarantee that he also 'knew' OJ was guilty from the moment he heard anything about the incident.

The white conservatives on this board took Zimmerman's side almost unanimously before the facts were out, and what makes that worse is that now that the verdict is in,

they perversely believe that their wild, baseless, racially motivated GUESS was somehow vindicated.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Now they say Trayvon could have "been a great golfer like Tiger Woods".

 

[mudwhistle]

And what may make a tragedy even more tragic is that this likely isn't over for Zimmerman.

The story now is that the DOJ will likely bring violation of civil rights charges against Zimmerman and, because of presumed wrongful death, that could include prison time up to and including life imprisonment or even the death penalty. The NAACP is pushing for that.

And, the Martins have allegedly received over a million dollars in contributions for the purpose of going after Zimmerman on their own civil wrongful death suit that could drain him of every asset he owns.

The only ace in the hole Zimmerman holds is an innocent verdict in the the criminal trial and that the evidence the judge wouldn't allow in the trial would be fair game from now on--the photos, the text messages and tweets, the marijuana and women's jewelry, the whole nine yards. If the Martins really want to preserve the reputation of their son, they will ask everybody to now drop it and move on.

The evidence already was that this was not racially motivated. That makes a DOJ suit highly unlikely. It wold also be unpopular generally and would drag into the 2014 election.
So I dont think it will happen.

The NAACP however is pushing it. And that is could be sufficient reason for the DOJ to get involved. Whoever is running for election or re-election in 2014 will want those votes.

I don't see any difference between the NAACP and the KKK.

 

[Pogo]

There is a difference between sensationalizing the news and intentionally lying to make news. The networks intentionally lied. Due to their lies, George Zimmerman was damaged in his reputation and financially. He certainly does have a great case and he should bring it. This isn't a case that will go to trial. They will settle quickly because the last thing news groups want is to have their credibility played out in everyone else's news.

How much did you hear about the lawsuit filed by the Duke Lacrossse players? They sued, they sued the prosecutor's office, the police and the school.

You cannot sue "the media". "The media" comprises all methods of communication dissemination. Who owns the internet? What's he going to do, sue Al Gore because somebody wrote a blog he doesn't agree with?

Just as absurd is your blanket statement "the networks intentionally lied". For a start, who are "the networks"? You're gonna walk into court naming "the networks" as defendant? Really? Whoever they are, how do you know they "lied"? And if so, how do you know it was "intentional"? To know these things, you'd have to not only be present in the board meeting where "the networks" (in the "the networks" building, 123 Main Street, Anywhere USA) agreed among themselves to "lie" -- but you'd have to have been present at the site of the altercation between Zimmerman and the kid to know what actually went down.

Because in reality everything you actually do know about that event came to you from the same source named in this suit: "the media". So if you're going to conclude "the networks" or "the media" "lied" in the progression of the "story" --- and therefore are not credible --- then you have to reject the story itself, since they gave it to you in the first place.



You cannot sue "the media" any more than you can sue "damn liburruls/damn conservatives" or "racists" or "these kids today". The premise is absurd.

 

[testarosa]

CNN and NBC should be prosecuted next. How can they call themselves legitimate News Organizations. They had the man convicted before he received a fair trial. This has possibly been the most heinous malicious act of Media Bias i've ever witnessed. I mean, CNN and NBC were right up front in your face with their obvious Bias. They can no longer be considered legitimate News Outlets. Shame on em.

I totally agree with you. What they did should be criminally prosecution. It went well beyond ethics to negligence.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It is a fact that we have more gun deaths but it is also a fact that they have higher violent crime rates than we do. It is also a fact that between 1.5 and 3 million times a year citizens protect themselves from crime using their guns - most often without firing a shot.

Between 4109 and 8219 lives saved every day by people using their guns to stop a crime. The higher of those numbers is the number of murders in a year and there are that many lives saved every day by GUNS in hands of law abiding citizens. Does that scare you? It makes me feel much safer.

Obama administration told the CDC to study the effects of guns in the USA and they stated that between 1.5 and 3 million people used guns each year to stop or prevent crimes.

Horseshit.

The CDC Is PROHIBITED BY LAW from doing gun studies, after the Kellerman study showed that a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

Well, the NRA wasn't having that shit.

I love that POS study.

 

[rightwinger]

Zimmerman is not done yet

He still faces a wrongful death lawsuit

 

[Katzndogz]

There is a difference between sensationalizing the news and intentionally lying to make news. The networks intentionally lied. Due to their lies, George Zimmerman was damaged in his reputation and financially. He certainly does have a great case and he should bring it. This isn't a case that will go to trial. They will settle quickly because the last thing news groups want is to have their credibility played out in everyone else's news.

How much did you hear about the lawsuit filed by the Duke Lacrossse players? They sued, they sued the prosecutor's office, the police and the school.

You cannot sue "the media". "The media" comprises all methods of communication dissemination. Who owns the internet? What's he going to do, sue Al Gore because somebody wrote a blog he doesn't agree with?

Just as absurd is your blanket statement "the networks intentionally lied". For a start, who are "the networks"? You're gonna walk into court naming "the networks" as defendant? Really? Whoever they are, how do you know they "lied"? And if so, how do you know it was "intentional"? To know these things, you'd have to not only be present in the board meeting where "the networks" (in the "the networks" building, 123 Main Street, Anywhere USA) agreed among themselves to "lie" -- but you'd have to have been present at the site of the altercation between Zimmerman and the kid to know what actually went down.

Because in reality everything you actually do know about that event came to you from the same source named in this suit: "the media". So if you're going to conclude "the networks" or "the media" "lied" in the progression of the "story" --- and therefore are not credible --- then you have to reject the story itself, since they gave it to you in the first place.



You cannot sue "the media" any more than you can sue "damn liburruls/damn conservatives" or "racists" or "these kids today". The premise is absurd.

He cannot sue the media generally but he can sue specific media outlets. The case against CBS is stellar. A first year law student could win that one.

 

[HomeInspect]

Was Zimmerman wrong? yes
Should he have stayed where he was, and called the police? yes
Should he have listened to the dispatcher, and followed advice? yes
Is he a goof and maybe a wanna-be cop? most likely

Did the jury do the right thing? yes

 

[Katzndogz]

Zimmerman is not done yet

He still faces a wrongful death lawsuit

Nope. Not a chance.

 

[KissMy]

Since I think he is guilty, I hope he has no future. None. I hope he is sued, I hope he never works again and I really really hope he doesnt make money from a book on how to kill black teens.

Personally, I hope he ends up in a cell next to OJ.

You Mad?

 

[mudwhistle]

They want the toxicology report released showing Trayvon had a tiny amount of marijuana in his system. We know how wild people on marijuana can get. They tear up a bag of Skittle and drink entire cans of Iced Tea.

I don't think they can tell HOW MUCH marijuana is in a persons system, just that it's there.....

That is not correct. By doing a quantitative analysis you can tell not only how much of the actual drug is in the system, but also how much metabolite is there as well.

I used to do quantitative analyses all the time on my patients for various reasons, some to see if they were using along with meds, some to see if they were taking their meds as they were supposed to.

There other reasons to do a drug screen and quantitative analysis A lot of people who just LUV. Soma, a seemingly innocuous muscle relaxer prescribed by the primary care provider. But the first metabolite of Soma is Meprobamate - an old and deadly tranquilizer called Milltown. Quantitative analysis of something like this helps the clinician to know if the person is taking the drug correctly or abusing.

Bet you checked your kids toothbrushes to see if they had brushed.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Now they say Trayvon could have "been a great golfer like Tiger Woods".

why not

it fits when you consider of bunch of people

feel that

maybe

could be

might have

is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt

 

[Pogo]

There is a difference between sensationalizing the news and intentionally lying to make news. The networks intentionally lied. Due to their lies, George Zimmerman was damaged in his reputation and financially. He certainly does have a great case and he should bring it. This isn't a case that will go to trial. They will settle quickly because the last thing news groups want is to have their credibility played out in everyone else's news.

How much did you hear about the lawsuit filed by the Duke Lacrossse players? They sued, they sued the prosecutor's office, the police and the school.

You cannot sue "the media". "The media" comprises all methods of communication dissemination. Who owns the internet? What's he going to do, sue Al Gore because somebody wrote a blog he doesn't agree with?

Just as absurd is your blanket statement "the networks intentionally lied". For a start, who are "the networks"? You're gonna walk into court naming "the networks" as defendant? Really? Whoever they are, how do you know they "lied"? And if so, how do you know it was "intentional"? To know these things, you'd have to not only be present in the board meeting where "the networks" (in the "the networks" building, 123 Main Street, Anywhere USA) agreed among themselves to "lie" -- but you'd have to have been present at the site of the altercation between Zimmerman and the kid to know what actually went down.

Because in reality everything you actually do know about that event came to you from the same source named in this suit: "the media". So if you're going to conclude "the networks" or "the media" "lied" in the progression of the "story" --- and therefore are not credible --- then you have to reject the story itself, since they gave it to you in the first place.



You cannot sue "the media" any more than you can sue "damn liburruls/damn conservatives" or "racists" or "these kids today". The premise is absurd.

He cannot sue the media generally but he can sue specific media outlets. The case against CBS is stellar. A first year law student could win that one.

And what did CBS do?