The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Kooshdakhaa]

I once again call your attention to the applicable laws here. You can only claim self defense if you're in eminent danger of serious bodily harm. Just because someone is following you does not give you the right to attack them.

Au contraire. I'm a small woman. Say I'm out walking late at night...had to go check on a neighbor or something...reason doesn't really matter why. This is America and I can walk around at night if I want to.

Someone starts following me. That's going to scare me. Maybe I even tell them to get away. But they keep following. And then they approach me.

I'm going to defend myself, right then and there. And I have every right to.

As does a grown man, a little old lady, and anyone else...including a teenage boy.

So let me ask you, Koosh...

If someone were following you and you were scared? If you managed to lose that person by going around a building and then down a pathway that they didn't follow...would you then go BACK to confront them...or would you run the two hundred yards to your house?

That's what happened that night. Zimmerman loses sight of Martin when Trayvon goes behind the row of buildings and goes to the right towards the condo he's staying in. Zimmerman when he follows goes straight and loses Martin. It's at that point that he's talking to the Police as he walks back to his SUV agreeing to meet them by the front gate of the gated community.

So if you had lost your pursuer? Would you turn BACK to confront them when the safety of your house is right there in front of you? That isn't something that a person does who is "afraid"...that is the action of someone who is looking for a confrontation.

First of all, do we know for a fact that is what happened that night? How do we know that? Were there witnesses to that exact chain of events? Did Martin just seek to gain an advantage over his stalker, get the element of surprise on his side? Is that why he slipped out of sight? Was his house really "right in front of him" or was it 200 yards away? Which was it. A lot can happen in 200 yards.

If I felt I could safely make it back to my house without the person seeing where I went, I would certainly consider that. But I sure don't want them seeing where my house is. Then I'd never be able to relax, wondering if they're going to bust in some night. I could see seeking an advantage in the street confrontation they've decided to initiate. Circle round, disorient them, so that if they do make a move I'm ready.

My main goal would be to get the hell out of there, but I don't want them to see where I'm going, jeopardize my family. And I'm sure not going to trust that the police are going to do anything to ensure my safety because I tell them someone "was following me." That much I know.

 

[LockeJaw]

Anyone ever seen this animation of the events?

 

[Luissa]

And if you are correct and he did have another kind of holster, wouldn't that mean his jacket was open exposing the gun?

 

[dilloduck]

And if you are correct and he did have another kind of holster, wouldn't that mean his jacket was open exposing the gun?

no--it means you're guessing---AGAIN

 

[dilloduck]

Au contraire. I'm a small woman. Say I'm out walking late at night...had to go check on a neighbor or something...reason doesn't really matter why. This is America and I can walk around at night if I want to.

Someone starts following me. That's going to scare me. Maybe I even tell them to get away. But they keep following. And then they approach me.

I'm going to defend myself, right then and there. And I have every right to.

As does a grown man, a little old lady, and anyone else...including a teenage boy.

So let me ask you, Koosh...

If someone were following you and you were scared? If you managed to lose that person by going around a building and then down a pathway that they didn't follow...would you then go BACK to confront them...or would you run the two hundred yards to your house?

That's what happened that night. Zimmerman loses sight of Martin when Trayvon goes behind the row of buildings and goes to the right towards the condo he's staying in. Zimmerman when he follows goes straight and loses Martin. It's at that point that he's talking to the Police as he walks back to his SUV agreeing to meet them by the front gate of the gated community.

So if you had lost your pursuer? Would you turn BACK to confront them when the safety of your house is right there in front of you? That isn't something that a person does who is "afraid"...that is the action of someone who is looking for a confrontation.

First of all, do we know for a fact that is what happened that night? How do we know that? Were there witnesses to that exact chain of events? Did Martin just seek to gain an advantage over his stalker, get the element of surprise on his side? Is that why he slipped out of sight? Was his house really "right in front of him" or was it 200 yards away? Which was it. A lot can happen in 200 yards.

If I felt I could safely make it back to my house without the person seeing where I went, I would certainly consider that. But I sure don't want them seeing where my house is. Then I'd never be able to relax, wondering if they're going to bust in some night. I could see seeking an advantage in the street confrontation they've decided to initiate. Circle round, disorient them, so that if they do make a move I'm ready.

My main goal would be to get the hell out of there, but I don't want them to see where I'm going, jeopardize my family. And I'm sure not going to trust that the police are going to do anything to ensure my safety because I tell them someone "was following me." That much I know.

Go for it--take your chances in a fight---see how it works out for you.

 

[Oldstyle]

I am still trying to figure out how you think a person would not fear for imminent death or bodily arm when being followed by an armed man?

You're really not that bright, Luissa.

Do you not understand the concept of a "concealed weapon"? You don't know someone HAS it because it's not in sight! Trayvon Martin would only know that he was being followed by an armed man if Zimmerman had taken out his gun and brandished it. Do you remember Trayvon saying anything to his girlfriend about a guy with a gun bothering him during their phone conversation? I don't. Think that wouldn't have been mentioned if he HAD seen a gun? I'm pretty sure it would have come up.

You really are not bright? How would one know to grab for a gun that wasn't in sight?

Like I said before, you are too busy calling me stupid instead of looking up information. Zimmerman claimed he grabbed for his gun in his holster. How would he know to grab it if he had not seen it? Wouldn't one assume then he had a belt holster?
When a cop wears a belt holster cannot you not easily see it?

You're not allowed to wear a "belt holster" like a Police Officer would have, Luissa. A concealed carry weapon, by law has to be concealed from view. If it isn't you're going to be arrested. The holster that Zimmerman had goes down into the waistband of your pants. I have one exactly like it. It's designed that way so you CAN'T see the weapon.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Zimmerman defense: Texts show Trayvon Martin 'hostile' day of shooting - CNN.com


Are they relevant? Should they be admissible?

I'm on the fence, I imagine setting up his state of mind that day could be relevant. However, I wonder if angry texts with a girlfriend hours before his death "set up a state of mind"? Especially with teenager boys, being angry one min. with one person and totally fine the next with someone else is pretty common.

Are angry people truly fine the next minute?

 

[Luissa]

I have a holster too. It is kept under my jacket. I don't flash it around.

How would one known to grab for a gun if kept under a jacket? How would one easily access a gun kept under a jacket during a fight?

How? When the one attacks me and I fall to the ground and they start pounding my head in the pavement and my jacket falls open and they see the gun? Then they grab for it but I get it first and shoot his sorry ass?

A jacket he zipped up after the events took place?

I have also always wondered how Zimmerman didnt end up with blAck eyes. Last time I got hit in the upper nose I had a terrible black eye that lasted for over a month.

 

[Luissa]

You're really not that bright, Luissa.

Do you not understand the concept of a "concealed weapon"? You don't know someone HAS it because it's not in sight! Trayvon Martin would only know that he was being followed by an armed man if Zimmerman had taken out his gun and brandished it. Do you remember Trayvon saying anything to his girlfriend about a guy with a gun bothering him during their phone conversation? I don't. Think that wouldn't have been mentioned if he HAD seen a gun? I'm pretty sure it would have come up.

You really are not bright? How would one know to grab for a gun that wasn't in sight?

Like I said before, you are too busy calling me stupid instead of looking up information. Zimmerman claimed he grabbed for his gun in his holster. How would he know to grab it if he had not seen it? Wouldn't one assume then he had a belt holster?
When a cop wears a belt holster cannot you not easily see it?

You're not allowed to wear a "belt holster" like a Police Officer would have, Luissa. A concealed carry weapon, by law has to be concealed from view. If it isn't you're going to be arrested. The holster that Zimmerman had goes down into the waistband of your pants. I have one exactly like it. It's designed that way so you CAN'T see the weapon.

Was his jacket zipped when he first saw Martin?

 

[AmyNation]

Zimmerman defense: Texts show Trayvon Martin 'hostile' day of shooting - CNN.com


Are they relevant? Should they be admissible?

I'm on the fence, I imagine setting up his state of mind that day could be relevant. However, I wonder if angry texts with a girlfriend hours before his death "set up a state of mind"? Especially with teenager boys, being angry one min. with one person and totally fine the next with someone else is pretty common.

Are angry people truly fine the next minute?

Good point.

But if he called his girlfriend a stupid bitch 8 hours before he died(and we dont know what they say, only that they were "hours" before and described as "hostile"), does that show his state of mind during the attack?

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Here's an article about the neighborhood watch dude that was charged with raping the woman. The article also mentions one of our local police officers who was also sexually assaulting women.

So, I'd be just of leery of a neighborhood watch dude, or cop, approaching me in the night as I would a black teenager.

Public safety stalwart jailed on rape charges | Crime | ADN.com

 

[Oldstyle]

You really are not bright? How would one know to grab for a gun that wasn't in sight?

Like I said before, you are too busy calling me stupid instead of looking up information. Zimmerman claimed he grabbed for his gun in his holster. How would he know to grab it if he had not seen it? Wouldn't one assume then he had a belt holster?
When a cop wears a belt holster cannot you not easily see it?

You're not allowed to wear a "belt holster" like a Police Officer would have, Luissa. A concealed carry weapon, by law has to be concealed from view. If it isn't you're going to be arrested. The holster that Zimmerman had goes down into the waistband of your pants. I have one exactly like it. It's designed that way so you CAN'T see the weapon.

Was his jacket zipped when he first saw Martin?

For the love of God! You're not going to see the gun even if he's not wearing a jacket. You put a small frame gun into a waist band holster and you're not going to get what is known as a "print" which means a recognizable shape of a gun beneath your shirt. That's what that type of holster is DESIGNED to do. Seriously...you need to bone up on this stuff, Luissa...you're ignorance is showing!

 

[dilloduck]

You're not allowed to wear a "belt holster" like a Police Officer would have, Luissa. A concealed carry weapon, by law has to be concealed from view. If it isn't you're going to be arrested. The holster that Zimmerman had goes down into the waistband of your pants. I have one exactly like it. It's designed that way so you CAN'T see the weapon.

Was his jacket zipped when he first saw Martin?

For the love of God! You're not going to see the gun even if he's not wearing a jacket. You put a small frame gun into a waist band holster and you're not going to get what is known as a "print" which means a recognizable shape of a gun beneath your shirt. That's what that type of holster is DESIGNED to do. Seriously...you need to bone up on this stuff, Luissa...you're ignorance is showing!

Intentional Liberal Ignorance--we're wasting our time. Luissa will walk away claiming she wins. Classic example of why the two "sides" can't agree on anything.

 

[Oldstyle]

Here's an article about the neighborhood watch dude that was charged with raping the woman. The article also mentions one of our local police officers who was also sexually assaulting women.

So, I'd be just of leery of a neighborhood watch dude, or cop, approaching me in the night as I would a black teenager.

Public safety stalwart jailed on rape charges | Crime | ADN.com

You'd be just as leery of a police officer approaching you in a bad neighborhood as you would a teenager?

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

So let me ask you, Koosh...

If someone were following you and you were scared? If you managed to lose that person by going around a building and then down a pathway that they didn't follow...would you then go BACK to confront them...or would you run the two hundred yards to your house?

That's what happened that night. Zimmerman loses sight of Martin when Trayvon goes behind the row of buildings and goes to the right towards the condo he's staying in. Zimmerman when he follows goes straight and loses Martin. It's at that point that he's talking to the Police as he walks back to his SUV agreeing to meet them by the front gate of the gated community.

So if you had lost your pursuer? Would you turn BACK to confront them when the safety of your house is right there in front of you? That isn't something that a person does who is "afraid"...that is the action of someone who is looking for a confrontation.

First of all, do we know for a fact that is what happened that night? How do we know that? Were there witnesses to that exact chain of events? Did Martin just seek to gain an advantage over his stalker, get the element of surprise on his side? Is that why he slipped out of sight? Was his house really "right in front of him" or was it 200 yards away? Which was it. A lot can happen in 200 yards.

If I felt I could safely make it back to my house without the person seeing where I went, I would certainly consider that. But I sure don't want them seeing where my house is. Then I'd never be able to relax, wondering if they're going to bust in some night. I could see seeking an advantage in the street confrontation they've decided to initiate. Circle round, disorient them, so that if they do make a move I'm ready.

My main goal would be to get the hell out of there, but I don't want them to see where I'm going, jeopardize my family. And I'm sure not going to trust that the police are going to do anything to ensure my safety because I tell them someone "was following me." That much I know.

Go for it--take your chances in a fight---see how it works out for you.

Well, it is better to avoid 100 fights than to win 100 fights. So I try to avoid. I usually stay inside at night.

But believe me, if I ever find myself in a position where I have to walk around outside at night...I'll be prepared to win the fight should one present itself. I've got some payback I'd like to deliver for getting physically abused as a young woman. And whoever messes with me now will do just fine as the recipient of that payback.

 

[Luissa]

You're not allowed to wear a "belt holster" like a Police Officer would have, Luissa. A concealed carry weapon, by law has to be concealed from view. If it isn't you're going to be arrested. The holster that Zimmerman had goes down into the waistband of your pants. I have one exactly like it. It's designed that way so you CAN'T see the weapon.

Was his jacket zipped when he first saw Martin?

For the love of God! You're not going to see the gun even if he's not wearing a jacket. You put a small frame gun into a waist band holster and you're not going to get what is known as a "print" which means a recognizable shape of a gun beneath your shirt. That's what that type of holster is DESIGNED to do. Seriously...you need to bone up on this stuff, Luissa...you're ignorance is showing!

If it there was recognizable shape underneath his shirt in a waist band holder than how would he know he had a gun if his jacket fell open?

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Here's an article about the neighborhood watch dude that was charged with raping the woman. The article also mentions one of our local police officers who was also sexually assaulting women.

So, I'd be just of leery of a neighborhood watch dude, or cop, approaching me in the night as I would a black teenager.

Public safety stalwart jailed on rape charges | Crime | ADN.com

You'd be just as leery of a police officer approaching you in a bad neighborhood as you would a teenager?

Yes. I don't trust cops. Especially since cops here seem pretty quick to shoot you if you don't "obey" them. We've had a lot of people shot by cops just in the last year.

So I'd be a much easier target for a bad cop than a bad teenager. I don't have to "obey" the teenager, I can just immediately lapse into self-defense mode if needed. Hell, just to run screaming at the top of my lungs would probably work in that scenario. He'd be like "Damn, I'm getting out of here, this woman's crazy!" The cop...I have to be careful. I run screaming, they might shoot me in the back.

 

[Oldstyle]

First of all, do we know for a fact that is what happened that night? How do we know that? Were there witnesses to that exact chain of events? Did Martin just seek to gain an advantage over his stalker, get the element of surprise on his side? Is that why he slipped out of sight? Was his house really "right in front of him" or was it 200 yards away? Which was it. A lot can happen in 200 yards.

If I felt I could safely make it back to my house without the person seeing where I went, I would certainly consider that. But I sure don't want them seeing where my house is. Then I'd never be able to relax, wondering if they're going to bust in some night. I could see seeking an advantage in the street confrontation they've decided to initiate. Circle round, disorient them, so that if they do make a move I'm ready.

My main goal would be to get the hell out of there, but I don't want them to see where I'm going, jeopardize my family. And I'm sure not going to trust that the police are going to do anything to ensure my safety because I tell them someone "was following me." That much I know.

Go for it--take your chances in a fight---see how it works out for you.

Well, it is better to avoid 100 fights than to win 100 fights. So I try to avoid. I usually stay inside at night.

But believe me, if I ever find myself in a position where I have to walk around outside at night...I'll be prepared to win the fight should one present itself. I've got some payback I'd like to deliver for getting physically abused as a young woman. And whoever messes with me now will do just fine as the recipient of that payback.

You just said that instead of going home to avoid a fight that you'd circle around and surprise your pursuer. You need to slow down and think about the nonsense that you're spouting here.

If someone is following you in a bad neighborhood you need to get someplace safe and call the Police immediately. This notion that you can reap vengeance on someone NOW for abuse you took as a young woman is going to lead to you getting hurt badly or you doing something stupid to someone who's not done anything to you.

 

[Luissa]

Was his jacket zipped when he first saw Martin?

For the love of God! You're not going to see the gun even if he's not wearing a jacket. You put a small frame gun into a waist band holster and you're not going to get what is known as a "print" which means a recognizable shape of a gun beneath your shirt. That's what that type of holster is DESIGNED to do. Seriously...you need to bone up on this stuff, Luissa...you're ignorance is showing!

Intentional Liberal Ignorance--we're wasting our time. Luissa will walk away claiming she wins. Classic example of why the two "sides" can't agree on anything.

And what are doing?
A. You guys didn't look up what cases have been dropped by stand your ground
B. without looking it up you stated he called his girlfriend after it started, which isn't true
C. You can't admit Zimmerman caused the incident by following Martin instead of calling the police
D. You guys love to bring up Martin's past but never mention zimmerman has attacked a Police officer in defending his friend, and also had a restraining order put in place in his past by an ex...


And also where is Martin's blood all over Zimmerman? And how is someone following you not going to cause fear?


Give me a break. We never agree because you guys criminalize the boy who had done nothing to warrant being followed.

 

[Oldstyle]

Here's an article about the neighborhood watch dude that was charged with raping the woman. The article also mentions one of our local police officers who was also sexually assaulting women.

So, I'd be just of leery of a neighborhood watch dude, or cop, approaching me in the night as I would a black teenager.

Public safety stalwart jailed on rape charges | Crime | ADN.com

You'd be just as leery of a police officer approaching you in a bad neighborhood as you would a teenager?

Yes. I don't trust cops. Especially since cops here seem pretty quick to shoot you if you don't "obey" them. We've had a lot of people shot by cops just in the last year.

So I'd be a much easier target for a bad cop than a bad teenager. I don't have to "obey" the teenager, I can just immediately lapse into self-defense mode if needed. Hell, just to run screaming at the top of my lungs would probably work in that scenario. He'd be like "Hell, let's find an easier target, this woman's crazy!" The cop...I have to be careful. I run screaming, they might shoot me in the back.

That's such a crock of shit! Police are not quick to shoot you if you don't obey them. They are quick to shoot you if you threaten them with a weapon. If you don't then they are probably going to hit you with pepper spray or a Taser. I've got so many friends that are Police and when I hear this kind of total bullshit it angers me beyond belief. Most of them go out of their way not to have physical confrontations with anyone. For the most part when it DOES occur it's because some drunk or drugged out individual or someone with mental problems leaves them no choice.