The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[dilloduck]

No witness statement states who attacked whom first.

There are witnesses who saw Martin attacking Zimmerman. There is physical evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman. There is no physical evidence showing Zimmerman attacked Martin.

There is physical evidence that Martin and Zimmerman were fighting. There is no physical evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman without provocation.

Bingo--so there ya go--that's what a jury is going to be deciding on. Throw all the other shit out the window. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Good Lord! I'm supposed to be raking leaves. Good-bye! : ) Nobody better mess with me while I'm raking leaves, either!!!!

One thing for sure, the new gang that just joined the forum are big trial watchers, so I'm sure they will have a thread going with a minute-by-minute accounting of this trial. Should be interesting.

 

[Luissa]

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.


I just love the little add on there. LMAO

Talk to Oldstyle, he is using the girlfriends testimony as to what exactly happened.

 

[Gracie]

Good Lord! I'm supposed to be raking leaves. Good-bye! : ) Nobody better mess with me while I'm raking leaves, either!!!!

One thing for sure, the new gang that just joined the forum are big trial watchers, so I'm sure they will have a thread going with a minute-by-minute accounting of this trial. Should be interesting.

And we have our own thread.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Someone like Truth Matters brings up an altercation that Zimmerman got into with an off duty police officer where the charge of assaulting a police officer was dismissed because Zimmerman didn't know he was dealing with a policeman...something that happened YEARS before the night Martin was killed as "proof" that Zimmerman is somehow a violent man...while texts by Trayvon from the very same DAY as the killing are deemed to be out of bounds because they may not have affected Martin HOURS later? Pardon me but you can't have it both ways...

Zimmerman's assaulting the police office was not dismissed because Zimmerman didn't know the officer in the process of making arrests wasn't a police officer. The charges were eventually dropped because, up to that point Zimmerman had no arrest record for violence so he was routed into a Pre-Trial Diversion Program for first offenders requiring completion of anger management counseling. The statement by the police officer clearly showed that he'd identified himself and shown Zimmerman his badge, so ya Zimmerman did know that the person was law enforcement.


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[WorldWatcher]

Horsehit--I'm not saying Martin did anything illegal. I'm saying Zimmerman was justified in using lethal force as a self defence as defined in Florida law. Create strawmen elsewhere.

Since we don't know who attacked who, we don't know if Zimmerman was justified in using lethal force. I see your mind is already made up.

We know Zimmerman was attacked due to physical evidence & witness statements that prove it. There is no proof that Martin was ever attacked or in fear of his life prior to the shot ending his attack on Zimmerman.

There is no physical evidence that I'm aware of that shows Martin attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman's statements are not "physical evidence". If I may have missed such evidence, please outline it here.


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[WorldWatcher]

Does not the police reports show he was on the phone stating he lost martin and was heading back to his vehicle? Which would back up zimmermans claim. Wouldnt it?

Like I said..interesting case. And I look forward to watching it unfold although I am not much of a trial watcher person.

The police report do not show that. That was claimed by Zimmerman in his written, audio, and video statements. The police did not state he lost Martin and was heading back.


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[WorldWatcher]

I'm still trying to figure out why he didn't fucking call the cops or run away----attacking isn't the only option you know. STOOOPID

It isn't. But I am failing to see how Zimmerman's only option was to follow a teenage boy who had committed no crime. Couldn't he have just called the Police before ever following the boy?

Zimmerman called the cops---Martin did not--Why ?

He departed the area of the unknown individual twice, prior to running away the second time her received an inbound phone call from Witness #8 and was in the process of talking to her. (The timing of the inbound call is shown by comparing phone records and the dispatcher reportlogs/timelines.) Martin was on the phone up to the point where the physical altercation started.


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[WorldWatcher]

I am still trying to figure out how you think a person would not fear for imminent death or bodily arm when being followed by an armed man?

Did martin know zimmerman was armed? Because if he did know...this puts a whole new twist on things, doesn't it?

He had a holster, where was his holster? He said he pulled it out of his holster during the fight. From that my money would be on it being in full view in a belt holster.

IIRC, Zimmerman had a belt holster located on the right rear hip. Such a holster would be covered and not visible with his jacket on.



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[WorldWatcher]

And according to Zimmerman Martin reached for the gun in his holster.
"hot the teen in self-defense after Trayvon repeatedly knocked his head to the ground and reached for the gun Zimmerman wore in a holster. He has pleaded not guilty."
Prosecutors: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on gun that killed him ? USATODAY.com

Which wouldn't that mean it was probably a belt holster on full view for Martin to see?

Not necessarily, there are multiple scenarios. One, Zimmerman displayed the firearm prior to the altercation. Two, Martin was unaware of the firearm and because aware of it during the altercation. Three, Martin was never aware that there was a firearm and didn't attempt to take it.

Everything doing with Martin's awareness of a firearm is only based on Zimmerman's statement.

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[WorldWatcher]

What--difference--does--it--make?

Maybe he was caught up in the fear of the moment and just concerned with being safe. And with that in mind, two reasons occur to me...1) You don't want to distract yourself with a phone call, nor draw attention to yourself by making the phone call; and 2) It's going to take the cops a while to get there...you're main concern is your IMMEDIATE safety. You'll call the cops once you're out of immediate danger.

it makes a hell of a lot of difference--you might have help coming. He called his girlfriend--so much for the distraction BS. Immediate safety is running AWAY

He had an 18 minute phone call with his girlfriend.
6:54 - 7:12 — Martin has an 18-minute cell phone call with a girl (reported to be his girlfriend) which gets disconnected.[9][11]
7:09:34 - 7:13:41 — George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck; total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.[12]
Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was on the phone with his girlfriend before he saw Zimmerman.

Phone records show that Martin's inbound phone call from Witness #8 occurred at 19:12 which was during Zimmerman's dispatcher call.

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf

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[Luissa]

it makes a hell of a lot of difference--you might have help coming. He called his girlfriend--so much for the distraction BS. Immediate safety is running AWAY

He had an 18 minute phone call with his girlfriend.
6:54 - 7:12 — Martin has an 18-minute cell phone call with a girl (reported to be his girlfriend) which gets disconnected.[9][11]
7:09:34 - 7:13:41 — George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck; total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.[12]
Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was on the phone with his girlfriend before he saw Zimmerman.

Phone records show that Martin's inbound phone call from Witness #8 occurred at 19:12 which was during Zimmerman's dispatcher call.

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf

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That is when the call ended, he had already been on the phone for 18 minutes

 

[WorldWatcher]

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:

Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman:

Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]


And why did Zimmerman change his mind and ask them to call him to see where he was at? Why didn't he go to the mailboxes where he stated his truck was parked?

"Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]"

Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript ? Trayvon Martin | Phoebe's Detention Room

Zimmerman's truck wasn't at the mail boxes, hence the "go past the mailboxes". Entering the development from the North you go past the clubhouse, past the mailboxes, and then Twin Trees Lane make a right turn (with no other option). Zimmerman's truck was parked farther down Twin Trees Lane.


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[WorldWatcher]

We know Zimmerman was attacked due to physical evidence & witness statements that prove it. There is no proof that Martin was ever attacked or in fear of his life prior to the shot ending his attack on Zimmerman.

No witness statement states who attacked whom first.

There are witnesses who saw Martin attacking Zimmerman. There is physical evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman. There is no physical evidence showing Zimmerman attacked Martin.

What physical evidence shows who started the altercation?



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[Luissa]

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:

Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman:

Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]


And why did Zimmerman change his mind and ask them to call him to see where he was at? Why didn't he go to the mailboxes where he stated his truck was parked?

"Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]"

Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript ? Trayvon Martin | Phoebe's Detention Room

Zimmerman's truck wasn't at the mail boxes, hence the "go past the mailboxes". Entering the development from the North you go past the clubhouse, past the mailboxes, and then Twin Trees Lane make a right turn (with no other option). Zimmerman's truck was parked farther down Twin Trees Lane.


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It was parked at the curve, and he didnt go back either way. You are arguing semantics, when he didnt go back to either when he should have.

 

[Oldstyle]

Um no smart one. I posted a few posts back where Martin was already on the phone with his girlfriend.
Instead of calling me ignorant, follow the thread.

So are you making the contention that Zimmerman flashed his weapon at Martin...yet Martin didn't mention the fact that the guy who was hassling him was armed with a gun? Really, Luissa? That's plausible to you?

Maybe Zimmerman didn't flash the gun until AFTER Martin's call with his girlfriend was CUT OFF.

The call is "CUT OFF" shortly after the fight started. Zimmerman may at that point have been going for his gun as Martin attacked him but I highly doubt it was to "flash" it at that point since he was getting his ass kicked...at that point he's going for his gun to try and save his life as Martin sits astride him and slams the back of his head into the ground.

 

[Luissa]

There is his truck at the curve, not farther down the lane.

 

[WorldWatcher]

He had an 18 minute phone call with his girlfriend.
6:54 - 7:12 — Martin has an 18-minute cell phone call with a girl (reported to be his girlfriend) which gets disconnected.[9][11]
7:09:34 - 7:13:41 — George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck; total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.[12]
Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was on the phone with his girlfriend before he saw Zimmerman.

Phone records show that Martin's inbound phone call from Witness #8 occurred at 19:12 which was during Zimmerman's dispatcher call.

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf

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That is when the call ended, he had already been on the phone for 18 minutes

No, that's when the call was received, if you look in the right column you can see the duration was 4-minutes. That means the inbound call was received during Zimmerman's dispatcher call.

• Dispatcher Call Starts approximately 1900 (0 minutes, 0 seconds or 0 from inside his truck,
• Zimmerman says Martin is coming toward the truck at approximately (19:12:00, 01:00),
• Zimmerman says Martin has his hand in his waistband (19:12:05, 01:05) as the same time as phone records show an INBOUND call from the girlfriend at (19:12),
• Zimmerman says he has something in his hand (19:12:26, 01:26), which may be Martin's cell phone (Good for Zimmerman),
• Zimmerman make note that Martin has turned to run (19:13:09, 02:09),
• Zimmerman exists the vehicle, you can hear the truck door opening and closing about 3 seconds later (19:13:11, 02:11),
• You can hear wind noises now as Zimmerman begins following Martin and dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following him (19:13:14, 02:14),
• You can hear Zimmerman acknowledges with "OK" that he heard the dispatcher say he didn't need to follow Martin (19:13:24, 02:24),
• No other position information can be determined from the phone call which ended at approximately 19:15:11, 04:11).

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[Luissa]

And according to Zimmerman Martin reached for the gun in his holster.
"hot the teen in self-defense after Trayvon repeatedly knocked his head to the ground and reached for the gun Zimmerman wore in a holster. He has pleaded not guilty."
Prosecutors: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on gun that killed him ? USATODAY.com

Which wouldn't that mean it was probably a belt holster on full view for Martin to see?

Not necessarily, there are multiple scenarios. One, Zimmerman displayed the firearm prior to the altercation. Two, Martin was unaware of the firearm and because aware of it during the altercation. Three, Martin was never aware that there was a firearm and didn't attempt to take it.

Everything doing with Martin's awareness of a firearm is only based on Zimmerman's statement.

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For one they didnt find his DNA on the holster. Which doesn't prove a lot, but could mean something.

Have you found anything on what position Zimmerman was in before he shot Martin? I read one article stating he was standing over Zimmerman. If that was true why didnt Zimmerman have more blood all over him?

 

[WorldWatcher]

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:

Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman:

Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]


And why did Zimmerman change his mind and ask them to call him to see where he was at? Why didn't he go to the mailboxes where he stated his truck was parked?

"Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]"

Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript ? Trayvon Martin | Phoebe's Detention Room

Zimmerman's truck wasn't at the mail boxes, hence the "go past the mailboxes". Entering the development from the North you go past the clubhouse, past the mailboxes, and then Twin Trees Lane make a right turn (with no other option). Zimmerman's truck was parked farther down Twin Trees Lane.


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It was parked at the curve, and he didnt go back either way. You are arguing semantics, when he didnt go back to either when he should have.

No, I'm defining where the truck was located - not semantics. Undoubtedly Zimmerman continued away from the truck to the darkened area behind the houses after he acknowledged the dispatchers instruction only seconds after leaving the truck without continuing away from the truck.

The truck (and the mailboxes if you will) were to the West, Zimmerman moved to the East.

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