The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[25Caliber]

You tube of Tryavon playing FB looks like also played as a senior. So yeah he seems like he was in good condition.

trayvon williams 2012 senior football highlights - YouTube

He was a great athlete...I had no idea...thanks for the post.

 

[Sunshine]

Zimmerman was "obeese".

Not as obeese at the time of the fight... additionally Zim was the one getting MMA training. The fight we saw of TM showed TM slapping hardly a trained fighter.

Yes he was. His medical provider just testified that his BMI was 31.

 

[Edgetho]

No. It doesn't help at all.

Let's assume that somebody saw Z start the fight. Eyewitness, ironclad. He didn't, but just for S's and G's, let's assume he did.

Now Z has the burden to prove (people also conflate 'proof' and 'evidence' way too much) that he tried to disengage. That's the part of the law you're missing.

It's not enough that Z was getting his ass beat and was skeert, he had to try to disengage, to say "No Mas", I'm done, I quit.

If Z didn't try to separate but STILL feared for his life, we're talking Man I. Man II if the Jurors are in a good mood.

Not life for murder. But prison for a little while.

But since St Skittles obviously attacked him, we don't have to worry about that.

And oh.... A verbal confrontation is not considered starting a physical altercation. No matter what (if anything) Z said to Skittles. Within reason.

 

[LoneLaugher]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

Part gun love. What beats being able to shoot people and get away with it?
Part validation of stereotypes.
Part instinctive reflex reaction.

 

[Sunshine]

You tube of Tryavon playing FB looks like also played as a senior. So yeah he seems like he was in good condition.

trayvon williams 2012 senior football highlights - YouTube

He was a great athlete...I had no idea...thanks for the post.

Which clearly meant very little to him, given the things he did to get expelled from school. I was involved in high school athletics and that is usually SO important to an adolescent that they will study their butts off to keep the grades up and do all the right things to stay in. Not this kid, he blew it stealing, smoking pot, etc.

 

[testarosa]

I thought this was the prosecutions case. Why are all the defense witnesses testifying.

it appears, to me at least that they felt that they wanted to get ahead of the game, and , I wonder if the prosecution thinks at all, as of now, if they are going to get a guilty verdict , even on manslaughter, they know what they have left to put up there to make there case but so far, to me, it doesn't look good.

I wonder, if offered, would zimmerman accept a reckless endangerment plea? no time, probation....j


ust playing devils advocate...

I said with /sarcasm but the truth of it is Bernster has to call them to spin his prosecution on it and call them before M O'M does. The old maybe the jury will buy they're my witnesses and my spin strategy.

The only one dumb enough to buy that is DD

 

[eflatminor]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

I for one am not 'rooting' for either side. I am interested in hearing why some here are just so damn sure Zimmerman followed, confronted and attacked Martin.

How can they possible know this?

Since Snook appears to have scurried off into it's hole...

Can anyone answer this question for me? Honestly, I'd like to know. I haven't followed every aspect of the case, but I don't understand how so many claim to be absolutely sure that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so.

How do you know this?

 

[CrazedScotsman]

I think the writing is on the wall. Zimmerman is going to be acquitted and many people are going to be really upset. One thing I can almost gaurentee is that if Zimmerman is found guilty, there won't be any rioting because of it.

I just hope the jurors don't convict because they are afraid of rioting or from fear for their own safety. There's no way this jury finds Zimmerman guilty with what has been presented by the prosecution so far.

 

[RKMBrown]

I thought this was the prosecutions case. Why are all the defense witnesses testifying.

The reason is the defense would call them anyways... better to get them up on the stand and get it over with.

I suspect the prosecution will argue in closing that GZ's help was standing right there just a few feet away not to mention the police that were right there within moments... They may also argue TMs prints were not on the weapon, GZs prints are on the weapon. They may argue that GZ did not have to kill TM, he did it because he wanted to kill him out of anger for getting hit, not out of self defense.

OK WEAK ARGUMENT.. running out of plausible scenarios.

I don't think they would use the "help was standing right there" argument. It could easily be countered that when Zim saw that help walk away to call 911, he felt there was no option left but to point and shoot.

I'm not on the jury.. but to me, from what I've heard so far and if other witnesses do not contradict the ones we've heard, ...

the only valid self defense argument to escalate a minor fight like this from what it was to killing him, is to argue he was going for my gun, we wrestled for it and the gun just went off in the fight. Without the fight for the gun.. I don't see the justification for the killing.

 

[Ernie S.]

Trajan! Something strange with the database. Clicking the link for "Last Page" takes me to page 161 (20 post/page) Even going to my recent posts and clicking the link to my last post in this thread, dumps me back to 161.

 

[testarosa]

After today I know exactly how this whole thing went down. When I have time I'll do the novel summary thing.

I will say. I have extreme empathy for his mother. She is the victim and worst off here. She sent her suspended getting in trouble don't know what to do with him kid to his father to straighten out and got the call he was dead.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

I thought this was the prosecutions case. Why are all the defense witnesses testifying.

it appears, to me at least that they felt that they wanted to get ahead of the game, and , I wonder if the prosecution thinks at all, as of now, if they are going to get a guilty verdict , even on manslaughter, they know what they have left to put up there to make there case but so far, to me, it doesn't look good.

I wonder, if offered, would zimmerman accept a reckless endangerment plea? no time, probation....j


ust playing devils advocate...

I said with /sarcasm but the truth of it is Bernster has to call them to spin his prosecution on it and call them before M O'M does. The old maybe the jury will buy they're my witnesses and my spin strategy.

The only one dumb enough to buy that is DD

That's because DD is so dumb, she would buy a can of powdered water.

 

[MeBelle]

FB Coach says Trayvon was a great kid. Non-confrontational.

What year did TM play FB?

Bering suspended from school = losing the privilege to play FB.

Annnnnnnnnd...how can anyone be non-confrontational if they do play FB, unless someone is the water boy? One has to be somewhat aggressive!!

Disclaimer: I am not implying that TM was a water boy.

I believe the video I linked above shows Tray in FB the year of the incident.

With all due respect the video you provided is of Trayvon Williams.
Unless TM was known as TW

You tube of Tryavon playing FB looks like also played as a senior. So yeah he seems like he was in good condition.

trayvon williams 2012 senior football highlights - YouTube

 

[Sunshine]

After today I know exactly how this whole thing went down. When I have time I'll do the novel summary thing.

I will say. I have extreme empathy for his mother. She is the victim and worst off here. She sent her suspended getting in trouble don't know what to do with him kid to his father to straighten out and got the call he was dead.

Unfortunately, the father was otherwise occupied.

The novel summary. The prosecution is a tornado of bullshit. That pretty well sums it up.

 

[25Caliber]

Hi 25!

Yes, GZ reaching for his phone/gun you're concentrating on is sort of a red herring. According to GZ and DD/Rachel Jeantel, TM had lost GZ and was near his father's condo. While TM had no obligation to go home, logic tells me that if he was going back to where GZ was, then he was doing so for a reason. I don't know what that would be and it really doesn't matter. Certainly TM was not afraid of GZ or he would have gone inside. Instead, he came back to GZ (whom I believe was headed back to his car since he didn't know where Martin went) and DD says TM spoke first, asking "What you following me for?" So TM escalated this situation to his own detriment. I'm sure the whole incident happened very quickly, with little time for either of these guys to think things through rationally.

To me, the pertinent issues are 1) who was the initiator of contact - the aggressor? And 2) what was GZ's state of mind when he pulled the trigger? Following someone is not aggressive nor is it unlawful. Confronting someone in the dark could be considered aggressive. At the very least it was TM who made the first contact, not GZ.

Hey SF!

My point with the reaching is that if he is following in the dark and rain and is not identifying himself, then at the point of confrontation when he reaches could be argued an aggressive action.

Trayvon asking his follower why he is being followed is not unlawful either.

To me the prosecution should be trying to show that it was GZ who was the aggressor...sure, we all know now that GZ was the NH watch captain, but Tray didnt know at the time, nor would have any of us. It was just someone following him.

It has already been stated on national TV that in Florida it doesn't matter who started the fight. When you believe your life is in danger you can use deadly force. Are you watching ANY of this. It is NOT going well for the prosecution because the prosecution doesn't have anything. This is not 3rd grade. "He started it isn't going to work." Please move on.

The defense owned the day today.

And on CNN, they seem to think the prosecution has hoards of witnesses waiting in the wings who will turn the case their way. The more they come, the better shape the defense is in.

And it is not in the post I am responding to but FFS, what is the issue with Zimmerman wearing a suit. EVERY lawyer tells their client to dress well for court. If you go buy a suit, if your mother buys you a suit, if your wife buys you a suit, if your lawyer buys you a suit. That is all irrelevant.

Huh? Im looking at both sides...some have a hard time. It is very important who is considered the aggressor. What trial are you watching? All im saying is its an avenue the prosecution could pursue. I know with you...its baaaaad trayvon and goooooood zimmerman...a little deeper thought could see the good and bad of both sides...youre bias is showing.

yes, sunshine...i am watching the trial. Relax, some have different views than you.

 

[Sunshine]

I think the writing is on the wall. Zimmerman is going to be acquitted and many people are going to be really upset. One thing I can almost gaurentee is that if Zimmerman is found guilty, there won't be any rioting because of it.

I just hope the jurors don't convict because they are afraid of rioting or from fear for their own safety. There's no way this jury finds Zimmerman guilty with what has been presented by the prosecution so far.

The purpose of a jury trial is not to prevent rioting. It is not to create reality show celebs, but I have a feeling it did.

 

[Amelia]

You were certainly referring to it. It does matter if GZ started it, damn right, it does. TM had the right to defend himself, and he had no obligation to retreat, and if GZ had a gun, TM had the right to beat him into the ground. GZ could only shoot TM if he thought his life was in danger. It was not.

And learn "English" and "countersuit" and "courts-martial" and "sergeants-major" for plural.

If Martin was reaching for Zimmerman's gun, then there's reason to believe it was.

 

[R.D.]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

I for one am not 'rooting' for either side. I am interested in hearing why some here are just so damn sure Zimmerman followed, confronted and attacked Martin.

How can they possible know this?

Since Snook appears to have scurried off into it's hole...

Can anyone answer this question for me? Honestly, I'd like to know. I haven't followed every aspect of the case, but I don't understand how so many claim to be absolutely sure that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so.

How do you know this?

The twisted logic is he wasn't in his car.

 

[MeBelle]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

I for one am not 'rooting' for either side. I am interested in hearing why some here are just so damn sure Zimmerman followed, confronted and attacked Martin.

How can they possible know this?

Since Snook appears to have scurried off into it's hole...

Can anyone answer this question for me? Honestly, I'd like to know. I haven't followed every aspect of the case, but I don't understand how so many claim to be absolutely sure that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so.

How do you know this?

I don't believe, for many, it's about 'know'. It is about evidence.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/299982-zimmerman-trial-docs-evidence.html

Watching the trial is but theater half the time.

 

[eflatminor]

I for one am not 'rooting' for either side. I am interested in hearing why some here are just so damn sure Zimmerman followed, confronted and attacked Martin.

How can they possible know this?

Since Snook appears to have scurried off into it's hole...

Can anyone answer this question for me? Honestly, I'd like to know. I haven't followed every aspect of the case, but I don't understand how so many claim to be absolutely sure that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so.

How do you know this?

The twisted logic is he wasn't in his car.

Okay, but wasn't it revealed in his sworn testimony that he was simply heading to where he knew the police would show up...to let them know he was the one that called 911?

I'm still looking for a cogent response. How are so many here just positive that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin? Where is the evidence for that?

Anyone???