The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sallow]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

if it didnt come from msnbc it isnt news

--LOL

Oh shit, you're right.

Sorry 'bout that.

Zimmerman waives 'stand your ground' defense -- for now - U.S. News


Regards,
SirRattusOfHattus.

Is that all, pee wee?

No, I forgot to include your GOLD standard, the HuffyPuffyBlowTheTruthUp Post.


Sorry 'bout that.

George Zimmerman 'Stand Your Ground' Defense: Neighborhood Watchman Won't Seek Immunity Hearing


Regards,
SirRattusOfCamembert.

 

[25Caliber]

Lets just say for arguments sake that the incident stopped with Trayvon punching GZ. He punched him and just after he punched him the cops came running around the corner and stopped it.

What would have happened? Wouldnt the cops have had a big decision to make? Like wait a minute...who was carrying on suspiciously here.

GZ gives his version of why he thinks Trayvon is suspicious.

Then trayvon gives his version as to why he thinks GZ was suspicious.

The cops then ask Trayvon why he punched GZ...

Trayvon: Well Im walking home from 7-11 and I notice this guy following me in a truck...no big deal...then I walk by the clubhouse on my way home and hes sitting parked in an empty parking lot in front of the clubhouse (which is closed) and hes eyeballing me and talking to someone on the phone. So I keep walking and the same truck comes around the corner and parks right along the walk hereby the mailboxes...I walk by and hes still staring at me and speaking on the phone....then I run up the walk in the direction of dads fiances house. This man gets out of his truck and follows me on foot carrying a flashlight...Im getting really concerned...all im doing is walking home...so i ask him is there a problem...why are you following me? When i do he tells me there isnt a problem and begins frantically reaching for his pockets on the right side and Im thinking hes grabbing a weapon of some sort, so I hit him.

The Cops: Hmmm...okay...well Mr Zimmerman is that true? What were you reaching for?

GZ: Well officer I was reaching for my phone...I was gonna call 911 on him. I was scared and fealt threatened.

Cops: Do me a favor Mr Zimmerman...where is your phone? Do me a favor lift up your coat there on the right side...is that a gun?

GZ: Well yeah, I have a permit.

Cops: But your phone isnt in your right pocket...its in your left pocket...your gun is there though.

At this point...GZ has no case and this goes no where. GZ never identifies himself, is 28 years old following a minor suspiciously through the complex in a truck and up the walk on foot with a flashlight and holstering a pistol and reaching in that direction when he is hit.

So if the situation stops there...who is the aggressor? Who really appears to be the creepy fellow?

 

[Sallow]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

This..is why the cops let Zimmerman go in the first place.

And didn't conduct an extensive investigation.

They were confused about the law.

 

[Snookie]

Oh shit, you're right.

Sorry 'bout that.

Zimmerman waives 'stand your ground' defense -- for now - U.S. News


Regards,
SirRattusOfHattus.

Is that all, pee wee?

No, I forgot to include your GOLD standard, the HuffyPuffyBlowTheTruthUp Post.


Sorry 'bout that.

George Zimmerman 'Stand Your Ground' Defense: Neighborhood Watchman Won't Seek Immunity Hearing


Regards,
SirRattusOfCamembert.

Fear my intelligence. There is plenty of reason to do that,

 

[jon_berzerk]

The moral of this story/trial is to never get in a fight unless you are truly defending yourself.

Crime is out of control in this country and new laws have been established to protect citizens minding their own business who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do think that Zimmerman could have done other things to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. However, that doesnt negate the fact that in the end he was not chasing Tray looking for a fight and Tray could have avoided the confrontation by simply going home.
Y
Im a little old school and it clouds my judgment at times...I believe in the old fashioned toe to toe...no knives and no guns...no weapons. But this pertains to two parties looking to settle a difference worth fighting for, etc.

My big problem with Martin at this point in the trial is the fact that he circled back and around GZs truck...to me, with that he loses the benefit of the doubt of being frightened and scared...this suggests he was sizing up the opposition. I think that changes things a bit in regards to who was the aggressor.

I also have been thinking about another post last night, cant remember who (sorry), that essentially said that if the one on the bottom is in retreat or has had enough....then knock it off before you kill someone. You got the better of him, he wont follow anyone in the dark anymore, now leave him alone.

At some point, Tray became the aggressor, at some point Tray knew he had the better of him. At some point Tray should have been able to stop. Young kid, didnt really care about the consequences of his actions...in the end he was shot because he couldnt stop himself.

In MMA there is a ref that will call the fight when the one on the bottom is defenseless and in extreme danger. If there was no ref, you would see guys killed in the ring. There was no ref there that night to stop a person getting a dozen punches to the head.

My question is this...at what point do some in here think tray would have stopped? Based on the testimony presented and had GZ not had a gun...when do you think Tray would have stopped punching?...when GZ was knocked out? He was raining down blows to a person being dominated by a full mount position and crying for help...this wasnt enough for Tray. Remember this is the same kid that said that people werent "bleeding enough" in his fights.

In other words, GZ was tapping out. Tray didnt seem to care. Another old school thing, is when someone is tapping out or says they have had enough...you stop...you won...you da man!

What DD said he said to her and that whole sequence eliminates the "frightened kid" thing completely. That's why I said DD was enlightening.

[MENTION=23063]Rat in the Hat[/MENTION] insert joke here:

______________

--LOL
send

 

[Ernie S.]

[MENTION=26011]Ernie S.[/MENTION] LOL...I did think it over...I thought I cleared it up. You have mentioned it more than once in multiple posts while misspelling both of their names...can I assume you are falling into some subliminal bait?

You are spelling George in the hispanic way Jorge (or horhay)...yet Ive seen no one else spelling it that way. Is this your way of ensuring everyone knows he is in fact hispanic? You say GZ is fine, yet you spell his name Jorge...doesnt make sense...what message are you trying to send?

Spell the names right...think it over. Ill continue to use the shorter versions...sorry if that portrays the wrong image...its just a name and I use it in several ways....sorry if it causes you to envision Trayvon, Treyvon, TM, Martin, Tray in a different light than you are comfortable with.

I'll admit I use Jorge to indicate his Hispanic side if you admit you use "Tray to show that you see him as a child. OK? Like I say: I think you are fair and open minded. Probably the most unbiased observer in the thread. I'm only pointing out what I and a couple others have noticed as a means of illustrating what comes across as a perhaps, unconscious bias.
I'm turning in for the night. Sleep well, my friend.

Oh okay...so you will admit to what you are obviously doing as long as I admit to what you suspect me of doing...lol...sounds like a pretty good deal for you.

Its all good, ernie...you seem like a stand up guy to me. Wasnt trying to portray that image...just a little too lazy to spell it out fully is all. I can see how it would project that image...not my intent.

BTW, he wasnt 12, but he was still a minor @17. Even GZ identified him as someone in his late teens.

Exactly! but the prosecution wants you, me, the jury to think of him as the 12 year old in that photo we first saw of him.
For the same reason, they refer to him as Trayvon/Treyvon/Trevon (I've seen all 3 spellings) and George Zimmerman as just plain "Zimmerman" or occasionally Mr. Zimmerman, further driving home the point that Martin was a child and Zimmerman was an adult.

Well, folks! Trayvon Martin stopped being a "child" when he attacked George Zimmerman. It's a shame that he was a young man for less than one minute.

 

[testarosa]

I think you captured the attitude of Martin pretty well. He did seem to be posturing for Dee Dee on the phone and working himself up for a confrontation.
That, combined with the calm, rational conversation at about the same time between Zimmerman and the dispatcher shows both men's state of mind. One calm, business like, for the most part, and one posturing, almost demanding respect for being a bad assed gangsta.

Theres more than that, but the defense hasn't even started yet. So next week we'll have a better conversation .

I've got a doozy of an alternate theory, myself.

I think it is the P.A.'s alternate theory as well.

I picked up on it from some of the questions the Prosecutor was asking.

Well I showed you mine. Lets have it.

 

[jon_berzerk]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

This..is why the cops let Zimmerman go in the first place.

And didn't conduct an extensive investigation.

They were confused about the law.

where did you pull that from

--LOL

 

[Rat in the Hat]

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

This..is why the cops let Zimmerman go in the first place.

And didn't conduct an extensive investigation.

They were confused about the law.

where did you pull that from

--LOL

DeeDee's neck pouch?

 

[Ernie S.]

After looking at the tapes again...there is something that kinda bothers me. Maybe you guys can help.

If GZ observes tray in front of a house and continues to drive down the street as he says and then takes a right turn and parks in front of the clubhouse and then later pulls around the corner. Why does Tray think he is being followed. Its made to look like he is passed once (nothing abnormal about that)...parks in front of a clubhouse (he lives there nothing abnormal there)...he pulls around the corner stops and sees Trayvon approaching and walking by. Later he strolls up the walk...whats so abnormal about that?...there are residents strolling up and down sidewalks all day.

Why does Trayvon believe he is being followed? How was it so obvious? It seems to me that the way GZ portrays he would just be another resident driving thru the neighborhood and strolling up a walkway.

My guess is Trayvon see GZ on the phone and driving slow and following in the car and talking to someone on the phone about him... humans are pretty good at picking up vibes, eyes staring at them from a distance. Given GZ was in a "gangbanger" red jacket not a cop uniform.. Trayvon (Tray) would probably have thought he was being cased for a beat down. Especially when he heard GZ telling the guy on the phone where he was, etc.. It would have looked to Tray like the guy was after him and probably calling for his gangbangers to join in. Remember Tray had no clue, no idea who was following him, chasing after him by car, foot, etc. for a considerable amount of time. I find it hard to believe Tray did not hear some of the conversation... stuff like "they always get away" etc..

You're joking, right?

 

[Sallow]

Sallow wrote:

"Void of facts?
Fact - Zimmerman has a history of violence. He fought a cop and bravely beat the shit out of his fiancée.
Fact - Zimmerman wanted to be a cop.
Fact - Zimmerman appointed himself "captain" of the Neighborhood watch.
Fact - Zimmerman was "patrolling" his gated community, armed.
Fact - Zimmerman pursued Martin while armed.

Sorry..he wasn't waving the pistol while in pursuit. My bad."

I dont even know where to begin...


1) he was looking for someone to shoot because he wanted to be a cop? Really?

2) he fought a cop? it was a minor incident in a bar and the "cop" wasnt in uniform or on duty.

3) I have no information about the fiance...but that doesnt mean he was looking for someone in his neighborhood to shoot. LMAO

4) He always carried the firearm...the only exception for him was at work. He was not patrolling that night...he was on his way to target and noticed suspicious behavior at a house that had just been burglarized 3 weeks earlier...again...doesnt mean he was looking for someone to shoot.

Lastly...he called 911...the police were on the way...he wasnt looking to go shoot someone.

I have conceded at length that GZ has made some mistakes that night and I believe he should serve time for it to this point. but again your accusations are wishful thinking on your part...will not be proven by the prosecution. its a complete assumption that does not add up to his 911 call or the eyewitness version of events that night.

I do however respect your position that people be allowed to defend themselves, but not carry a concealed weapon...we disagree, but I do respect your difference in opinion and you make a good point.

1. Dunno, maybe. Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men.

2. You mean they busted down the assault charge to a misdemeanor because the cop didn't properly identify himself? Do tell. You know how ironic that sounds?

3. His fiancée got a restraining order against him.

4. That's what he says. And with all the changes that have gone on in his story..I find it amazing anyone believes this character.

So the police were on the way and after a minute long "life and death" struggle, he shoots an unarmed kid? You don't see a problem with that?


And having different opinions is a good thing..in my book.

 

[Ernie S.]

[MENTION=26011]Ernie S.[/MENTION] LOL...I did think it over...I thought I cleared it up. You have mentioned it more than once in multiple posts while misspelling both of their names...can I assume you are falling into some subliminal bait?

You are spelling George in the hispanic way Jorge (or horhay)...yet Ive seen no one else spelling it that way. Is this your way of ensuring everyone knows he is in fact hispanic? You say GZ is fine, yet you spell his name Jorge...doesnt make sense...what message are you trying to send?

Spell the names right...think it over. Ill continue to use the shorter versions...sorry if that portrays the wrong image...its just a name and I use it in several ways....sorry if it causes you to envision Trayvon, Treyvon, TM, Martin, Tray in a different light than you are comfortable with.

I'll admit I use Jorge to indicate his Hispanic side if you admit you use "Tray to show that you see him as a child. OK? Like I say: I think you are fair and open minded. Probably the most unbiased observer in the thread. I'm only pointing out what I and a couple others have noticed as a means of illustrating what comes across as a perhaps, unconscious bias.
I'm turning in for the night. Sleep well, my friend.

Seems to me 17 is a child. 18 to be an adult in Florida.

See my previous post.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Lets just say for arguments sake that the incident stopped with Trayvon punching GZ. He punched him and just after he punched him the cops came running around the corner and stopped it.

What would have happened? Wouldnt the cops have had a big decision to make? Like wait a minute...who was carrying on suspiciously here.

GZ gives his version of why he thinks Trayvon is suspicious.

Then trayvon gives his version as to why he thinks GZ was suspicious.

The cops then ask Trayvon why he punched GZ...

Trayvon: Well Im walking home from 7-11 and I notice this guy following me in a truck...no big deal...then I walk by the clubhouse on my way home and hes sitting parked in an empty parking lot in front of the clubhouse (which is closed) and hes eyeballing me and talking to someone on the phone. So I keep walking and the same truck comes around the corner and parks right along the walk hereby the mailboxes...I walk by and hes still staring at me and speaking on the phone....then I run up the walk in the direction of dads fiances house. This man gets out of his truck and follows me on foot carrying a flashlight...Im getting really concerned...all im doing is walking home...so i ask him is there a problem...why are you following me? When i do he tells me there isnt a problem and begins frantically reaching for his pockets on the right side and Im thinking hes grabbing a weapon of some sort, so I hit him.

The Cops: Hmmm...okay...well Mr Zimmerman is that true? What were you reaching for?

GZ: Well officer I was reaching for my phone...I was gonna call 911 on him. I was scared and fealt threatened.

Cops: Do me a favor Mr Zimmerman...where is your phone? Do me a favor lift up your coat there on the right side...is that a gun?

GZ: Well yeah, I have a permit.

Cops: But your phone isnt in your right pocket...its in your left pocket...your gun is there though.

At this point...GZ has no case and this goes no where. GZ never identifies himself, is 28 years old following a minor suspiciously through the complex in a truck and up the walk on foot with a flashlight and holstering a pistol and reaching in that direction when he is hit.

So if the situation stops there...who is the aggressor? Who really appears to be the creepy fellow?

it is still the crime of assault to punch someone in the face

 

[testarosa]

I've got a doozy of an alternate theory, myself.

I think it is the P.A.'s alternate theory as well.

I picked up on it from some of the questions the Prosecutor was asking.

share if so choose

PM sent.

No fair!!!!

 

[25Caliber]

I'll admit I use Jorge to indicate his Hispanic side if you admit you use "Tray to show that you see him as a child. OK? Like I say: I think you are fair and open minded. Probably the most unbiased observer in the thread. I'm only pointing out what I and a couple others have noticed as a means of illustrating what comes across as a perhaps, unconscious bias.
I'm turning in for the night. Sleep well, my friend.

Oh okay...so you will admit to what you are obviously doing as long as I admit to what you suspect me of doing...lol...sounds like a pretty good deal for you.

Its all good, ernie...you seem like a stand up guy to me. Wasnt trying to portray that image...just a little too lazy to spell it out fully is all. I can see how it would project that image...not my intent.

BTW, he wasnt 12, but he was still a minor @17. Even GZ identified him as someone in his late teens.

Exactly! but the prosecution wants you, me, the jury to think of him as the 12 year old in that photo we first saw of him.
For the same reason, they refer to him as Trayvon/Treyvon/Trevon (I've seen all 3 spellings) and George Zimmerman as just plain "Zimmerman" or occasionally Mr. Zimmerman, further driving home the point that Martin was a child and Zimmerman was an adult.

Well, folks! Trayvon Martin stopped being a "child" when he attacked George Zimmerman. It's a shame that he was a young man for less than one minute.

Well they can want what they want...I havnt fallen into that trap. Yes the media is extremely slanted in favor of Trayvon...for sure...especially HLN, CNN and MSNBC. I have seen FOX with some objective commentaries. Most recently Geraldo last night.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I thought I might try stephen King's Gunslinger series but I cannot get past the first 100 pages in the first book.

And when I look ahead, I don't see anything that inspires me to persevere.

I loved that series. I guess it's not for everyone though.

 

[Sallow]

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

This..is why the cops let Zimmerman go in the first place.

And didn't conduct an extensive investigation.

They were confused about the law.

where did you pull that from

--LOL

Chief of Sanford Police, Bill Lee Jr. LOL.

In his explanation, Lee referred to the “stand your ground” provisions of state law. They say that Floridians have the right “to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force" if they feel threatened. Lee pointed to a part of the statute that says “the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.”
Police chief steps down temporarily over handling of Trayvon Martin case - U.S. News

 

[Snookie]

Oh okay...so you will admit to what you are obviously doing as long as I admit to what you suspect me of doing...lol...sounds like a pretty good deal for you.

Its all good, ernie...you seem like a stand up guy to me. Wasnt trying to portray that image...just a little too lazy to spell it out fully is all. I can see how it would project that image...not my intent.

BTW, he wasnt 12, but he was still a minor @17. Even GZ identified him as someone in his late teens.

Exactly! but the prosecution wants you, me, the jury to think of him as the 12 year old in that photo we first saw of him.
For the same reason, they refer to him as Trayvon/Treyvon/Trevon (I've seen all 3 spellings) and George Zimmerman as just plain "Zimmerman" or occasionally Mr. Zimmerman, further driving home the point that Martin was a child and Zimmerman was an adult.

Well, folks! Trayvon Martin stopped being a "child" when he attacked George Zimmerman. It's a shame that he was a young man for less than one minute.

Well they can want what they want...I havnt fallen into that trap. Yes the media is extremely slanted in favor of Trayvon...for sure...especially HLN, CNN and MSNBC. I have seen FOX with some objective commentaries. Most recently Geraldo last night.

Geraldo? Al Capone's vault.

 

[The Rabbi]

You neglect to mention that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head pounded when the gun was exposed. That would seem to be sort of a major detail here.
I realize the Left has a narrative of this event that does not accord with the actual facts. But could you at least try to be honest here?

Im not from the left...I am looking at both sides. Frankly, I have both sides pissed off at me...thats fine.

I see you didnt address the possibility of GZ being perceived as suspicious also. You cant find it within yourself to take one step back for a second and think about what GZ appeared to be.

Wasnt he acting a little suspicious himself? How do you feel about strangers following you around in the dark? how about following you up a pathway looking with a flashlight? Any thoughts about what could have possibly been going through Trays or any other citizen walking home from 7-11 in an unfamiliar neighborhood?

This cracks me up...I mean you can see how trayvon would be suspicious to GZ...no problem..you are all over that...BUT some strange person following a teen at night in a truck and then up a pathway with a flashlight when the teen begins to run? Nope not a bit creepy to you at all...lmao. Throw the damn 911 tape out...Trayvon didnt hear the 911 tape...so you dont get to either...now is GZ acting suspicious? Does that help you?

It is irrelevant. I keep saying this over and over.
When Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman bangning his head into the ground Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm. He was thus justified in using deadly force to stop the attack.
That is the only salient issue here. Whether Zimmerman should have followed Trayvon, whether Trayvon punched him first--all of it is irrelevant here. The only relevant question is whether Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of his life when he shot. And I have not seen anyone make the case he wasn't.