The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[25Caliber]

Martin was on top of Zimmerman pounding his head into the pavement. At that point was Zimmerman reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm? If the answer is yes, then he acted in self defense and needs to go free. If the answer is no then he needs to be convicted.
Which is it?
Everything else is just noise in this case.

Not if the prosecution can show that George was the aggressor and that trayvon was defending himself. How can that be shown?...see my latest post in the other Z thread.

In short...if GZ was punched because he went reaching for his pockets in the dark when asked what his problem was or basically why he was following him and then during the struggle, Trayvon is punching him to prevent GZ from pulling a gun on him that GZ admits was exposed, then who was right?...who was the aggressor...GZ never identified himself. In Trayvons mind GZ was showing the same suspicious activity that he was accusing of...only difference is, GZ was carrying a gun.

Being slowly followed by a stranger in the dark in an unfamiliar neighborhood and then being followed again on foot in the dark using a flashlight would give anyone a creepy feeling. We have the benefit of hindsight to know who GZ was...Trayvon didnt.

Not as cut and dry as you suggest. If the prosecution would start hammering the above instead of bringing race into it, they might have a chance...otherwise no.

They don't seem to be pushing that particular fantasy because the facts wont support it. It might have been reasonable if Trayvon had punched him and run away. It is not reasonable that Trayvon would get on top of him and pound his head into the pavement. At that point Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force.
He will walk. There is no question in my mind on this one. It is as clear a case of self defense as I've seen in watching these things. The prosecutor's case falls apart every day as their own witnesses support Zimmerman.

Its not a fantasy at all...its GZs own words...he reached...the gun was exposed and he was hit because of it. Punch and run?...why so the guy can shoot you in the back? I understand that at the moment of the punch, Trayvon didnt know what he was reaching for...but when fighting you are taught to punch once and dont stop...in the process If I see a gun...im going to keep punching...especially if he is going for the gun.

And why is GZ not being considered a suspicious character? Someone needs to answer that...he is driving around following a stranger in the dark...he never identified himself...he was acting like a suspicious creep also...you have the benefit of hindsight now, but Trayvon didnt...how did he know who GZ was?

Cant figure out why so many are willing to give GZ the benefit of the doubt of being suspicious, but he was arguably acting more suspicious and no one can see it...why because you know now that he was NH watch captain? You woudnt have known it that night in the dark and rain...he was acting like a creep to anyone that didnt specifically know who he was and what he was doing. Committing a crime? No...but neither was trayvon as it turns out.

I will bet that if all we had was raw video footage of the events that night...it would be very hard to tell who the real creep was...many would be freaked out by some dude appearing to be stalking a teen walking home from 7-11...lol.

 

[The Rabbi]

You neglect to mention that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head pounded when the gun was exposed. That would seem to be sort of a major detail here.
I realize the Left has a narrative of this event that does not accord with the actual facts. But could you at least try to be honest here?

 

[25Caliber]

Sallow wrote:

"Void of facts?
Fact - Zimmerman has a history of violence. He fought a cop and bravely beat the shit out of his fiancée.
Fact - Zimmerman wanted to be a cop.
Fact - Zimmerman appointed himself "captain" of the Neighborhood watch.
Fact - Zimmerman was "patrolling" his gated community, armed.
Fact - Zimmerman pursued Martin while armed.

Sorry..he wasn't waving the pistol while in pursuit. My bad."

I dont even know where to begin...

1) he was looking for someone to shoot because he wanted to be a cop? Really?

2) he fought a cop? it was a minor incident in a bar and the "cop" wasnt in uniform or on duty.

3) I have no information about the fiance...but that doesnt mean he was looking for someone in his neighborhood to shoot. LMAO

4) He always carried the firearm...the only exception for him was at work. He was not patrolling that night...he was on his way to target and noticed suspicious behavior at a house that had just been burglarized 3 weeks earlier...again...doesnt mean he was looking for someone to shoot.

Lastly...he called 911...the police were on the way...he wasnt looking to go shoot someone.

I have conceded at length that GZ has made some mistakes that night and I believe he should serve time for it to this point. but again your accusations are wishful thinking on your part...will not be proven by the prosecution. its a complete assumption that does not add up to his 911 call or the eyewitness version of events that night.

I do however respect your position that people be allowed to defend themselves, but not carry a concealed weapon...we disagree, but I do respect your difference in opinion and you make a good point.

 

[eflatminor]

Has anyone here ever assaulted a person with a gun? If not, stfu.

Can we hold you to the same standard?

Geez. Not so bright, are you?

 

[Sallow]

You neglect to mention that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head pounded when the gun was exposed. That would seem to be sort of a major detail here.
I realize the Left has a narrative of this event that does not accord with the actual facts. But could you at least try to be honest here?

No one except Zimmerman has testified to that.

Even the several witness on the stand have either Zimmerman or Martin on top. If you put that together, it seems that at various points in this minute long "life and death" struggle both Zimmerman and Martin had the advantage.

And the witness who testified that Martin was doing an "MMA" ground and pound, said he WASN'T slamming Zimmerman's head into the pavement.

Most telling is:

Jonathan Manalo, whose wife testified earlier this week, told jurors he was the first person to make contact with Zimmerman after the shooting. He described Zimmerman as calm and easy to understand before police arrived. Manalo said as soon as he saw Zimmerman, Zimmerman started explaining what happened.

"I was defending myself when I shot him," Manalo said Zimmerman told him. Soon after police arrived and Zimmerman asked Manalo to call his wife. "Just tell her I shot someone," Manalo said Zimmerman told him.
Zimmerman witness says he tried to break up fight

He was so "near death" that he was able to get up, turn Martin on to his belly, and calmly formulate a story.

 

[25Caliber]

You neglect to mention that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head pounded when the gun was exposed. That would seem to be sort of a major detail here.
I realize the Left has a narrative of this event that does not accord with the actual facts. But could you at least try to be honest here?

Im not from the left...I am looking at both sides. Frankly, I have both sides pissed off at me...thats fine.

I see you didnt address the possibility of GZ being perceived as suspicious also. You cant find it within yourself to take one step back for a second and think about what GZ appeared to be.

Wasnt he acting a little suspicious himself? How do you feel about strangers following you around in the dark? how about following you up a pathway looking with a flashlight? Any thoughts about what could have possibly been going through Trays or any other citizen walking home from 7-11 in an unfamiliar neighborhood?

This cracks me up...I mean you can see how trayvon would be suspicious to GZ...no problem..you are all over that...BUT some strange person following a teen at night in a truck and then up a pathway with a flashlight when the teen begins to run? Nope not a bit creepy to you at all...lmao. Throw the damn 911 tape out...Trayvon didnt hear the 911 tape...so you dont get to either...now is GZ acting suspicious? Does that help you?

 

[25Caliber]

You neglect to mention that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head pounded when the gun was exposed. That would seem to be sort of a major detail here.
I realize the Left has a narrative of this event that does not accord with the actual facts. But could you at least try to be honest here?

No one except Zimmerman has testified to that.

Even the several witness on the stand have either Zimmerman or Martin on top. If you put that together, it seems that at various points in this minute long "life and death" struggle both Zimmerman and Martin had the advantage.

And the witness who testified that Martin was doing an "MMA" ground and pound, said he WASN'T slamming Zimmerman's head into the pavement.

Most telling is:

Jonathan Manalo, whose wife testified earlier this week, told jurors he was the first person to make contact with Zimmerman after the shooting. He described Zimmerman as calm and easy to understand before police arrived. Manalo said as soon as he saw Zimmerman, Zimmerman started explaining what happened.

"I was defending myself when I shot him," Manalo said Zimmerman told him. Soon after police arrived and Zimmerman asked Manalo to call his wife. "Just tell her I shot someone," Manalo said Zimmerman told him.
Zimmerman witness says he tried to break up fight

He was so "near death" that he was able to get up, turn Martin on to his belly, and calmly formulate a story.

Dude you are whacked...sorry...willfully ignorant. My head is spinning with you. There was an eyewitness just Friday, presented by the prosecution that stated to Bernie, the state prosecutor, that it was Trayvon on top, GZ on the bottom and that Tray was in a MMA full mount position with fists moving in a downward motion to GZs head. This is the only eyewitness to the actual fight. Quit dismissing actual testimony. You are very biased...you arent after the truth at all...you are denying it. Let the chips fall where they may...but dont look like a fool.

 

[jon_berzerk]

You neglect to mention that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head pounded when the gun was exposed. That would seem to be sort of a major detail here.
I realize the Left has a narrative of this event that does not accord with the actual facts. But could you at least try to be honest here?

HLN is still broadcasting the zimmerman was ordered not to get out of the car

 

[Snookie]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

 

[jon_berzerk]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

 

[Snookie]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

What? link?

 

[Rat in the Hat]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

What? link?

Zimmerman to argue self-defense, won't seek stand-your-ground hearing - CNN.com

 

[jon_berzerk]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

What? link?

i am not the one confused

oh and btw almost every state has the stand your ground or castle doctrine law

 

[jon_berzerk]

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

What? link?

Zimmerman to argue self-defense, won't seek stand-your-ground hearing - CNN.com

if it didnt come from msnbc it isnt news

--LOL

 

[Snookie]

I was wrong.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

What? link?

Zimmerman to argue self-defense, won't seek stand-your-ground hearing - CNN.com

if it didnt come from msnbc it isnt news

--LOL

Oh shit, you're right.

Sorry 'bout that.

Zimmerman waives 'stand your ground' defense -- for now - U.S. News


Regards,
SirRattusOfHattus.

 

[testarosa]

The moral of this story/trial is to never get in a fight unless you are truly defending yourself.

Crime is out of control in this country and new laws have been established to protect citizens minding their own business who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do think that Zimmerman could have done other things to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. However, that doesnt negate the fact that in the end he was not chasing Tray looking for a fight and Tray could have avoided the confrontation by simply going home.
Y
Im a little old school and it clouds my judgment at times...I believe in the old fashioned toe to toe...no knives and no guns...no weapons. But this pertains to two parties looking to settle a difference worth fighting for, etc.

My big problem with Martin at this point in the trial is the fact that he circled back and around GZs truck...to me, with that he loses the benefit of the doubt of being frightened and scared...this suggests he was sizing up the opposition. I think that changes things a bit in regards to who was the aggressor.

I also have been thinking about another post last night, cant remember who (sorry), that essentially said that if the one on the bottom is in retreat or has had enough....then knock it off before you kill someone. You got the better of him, he wont follow anyone in the dark anymore, now leave him alone.

At some point, Tray became the aggressor, at some point Tray knew he had the better of him. At some point Tray should have been able to stop. Young kid, didnt really care about the consequences of his actions...in the end he was shot because he couldnt stop himself.

In MMA there is a ref that will call the fight when the one on the bottom is defenseless and in extreme danger. If there was no ref, you would see guys killed in the ring. There was no ref there that night to stop a person getting a dozen punches to the head.

My question is this...at what point do some in here think tray would have stopped? Based on the testimony presented and had GZ not had a gun...when do you think Tray would have stopped punching?...when GZ was knocked out? He was raining down blows to a person being dominated by a full mount position and crying for help...this wasnt enough for Tray. Remember this is the same kid that said that people werent "bleeding enough" in his fights.

In other words, GZ was tapping out. Tray didnt seem to care. Another old school thing, is when someone is tapping out or says they have had enough...you stop...you won...you da man!

What DD said he said to her and that whole sequence eliminates the "frightened kid" thing completely. That's why I said DD was enlightening.

[MENTION=23063]Rat in the Hat[/MENTION] insert joke here:

______________

 

[Snookie]

Zimmerman to argue self-defense, won't seek stand-your-ground hearing - CNN.com

if it didnt come from msnbc it isnt news

--LOL

Oh shit, you're right.

Sorry 'bout that.

Zimmerman waives 'stand your ground' defense -- for now - U.S. News


Regards,
SirRattusOfHattus.

Is that all, pee wee?

 

[testarosa]

I was wrong.

What does this say???

Can I get a Trademark please.

 

[Snookie]

I was wrong.

What does this say???

Can I get a Trademark please.

Dogpile time!