The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sunshine]

Again, there were several witnesses to the fight.

You only seem to take one into account.

And that one, that you are referring too, said he NEVER saw Zimmerman head get slammed into the concrete.

See?

No insults required.

There was only one eyewitness to the actual fight...everyone else was either on the phone and in the house or their name is DD.

You are correct there is no one to verify that they actually saw him getting his head slammed into the concrete, but the other is true and you said it wasnt. Now you are using the same witness to make your case...lol.

All we have is the cuts and bumps in the back of his head...not sure how he could have received those injuries to the back of the head. Unless he was being punched and his head was on the concrete at the same time. That could have happened...but it was one of the two and either could be considered reasonable to assume serious injury.

Zimmerman's head was slammed against something. It is consistent with his account.

So was Goode's 'ground and pound' testimony.

 

[The Rabbi]

The women on the jury will picture themselves under a large black man pounding their heads into the pavement and understand that anyone in that situation is in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and acquit Zimmerman.

 

[25Caliber]

They don't seem to be pushing that particular fantasy because the facts wont support it. It might have been reasonable if Trayvon had punched him and run away. It is not reasonable that Trayvon would get on top of him and pound his head into the pavement. At that point Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force.
He will walk. There is no question in my mind on this one. It is as clear a case of self defense as I've seen in watching these things. The prosecutor's case falls apart every day as their own witnesses support Zimmerman.

Its not a fantasy at all...its GZs own words...he reached...the gun was exposed and he was hit because of it. Punch and run?...why so the guy can shoot you in the back? I understand that at the moment of the punch, Trayvon didnt know what he was reaching for...but when fighting you are taught to punch once and dont stop...in the process If I see a gun...im going to keep punching...especially if he is going for the gun.

And why is GZ not being considered a suspicious character? Someone needs to answer that...he is driving around following a stranger in the dark...he never identified himself...he was acting like a suspicious creep also...you have the benefit of hindsight now, but Trayvon didnt...how did he know who GZ was?

Cant figure out why so many are willing to give GZ the benefit of the doubt of being suspicious, but he was arguably acting more suspicious and no one can see it...why because you know now that he was NH watch captain? You woudnt have known it that night in the dark and rain...he was acting like a creep to anyone that didnt specifically know who he was and what he was doing. Committing a crime? No...but neither was trayvon as it turns out.

I will bet that if all we had was raw video footage of the events that night...it would be very hard to tell who the real creep was...many would be freaked out by some dude appearing to be stalking a teen walking home from 7-11...lol.

You have so many "Ifs" that you are actually describing a different case. IF Martin was so freaked out at being followed by a stranger, why call his friend Rachel and say he's being followed by a creepy ass cracker and not call his father, who was right there, could have been there in less than a minute and said "Dad, some creepy ass cracker is following me"? At which point, Dad would have walked out and said "Who are you and why are you following my son?"

No ifs here...just logical questions...different case? Huh...focus...still talking about this case.

Okay, so hes being followed by a creepy dude that he isnt afraid of...either/or makes no difference to me. He was not obviously not very happy about it and for good reason.

If what GZ was describing of Trayvon was suspicious, then wouldnt the behavior of GZ to trayvon be equally suspicious? Trayvon is a teen being followed on the way home from 7-11 as it turns out...and GZ was the adult following a tminor around in the dark.

Its so funny...not one person will answer this or give an opinion on it...lol...ive asked it multiple times and in mutliple threads...not one answers it including you. WHY? Because not knowing what we know now about the 911 call, etc., it is George who is the one acting suspicious and very creepy. trayvon has no idea he is on the phone with 911 or that GZ is NH watch or that he is being reported for possibly committing a crime...LMAO...he knows none of that...and you know what? he never knew...he died not knowing. Not once does GZ identify himself and he got his nose broke because of it.

 

[jon_berzerk]

There was only one eyewitness to the actual fight...everyone else was either on the phone and in the house or their name is DD.

You are correct there is no one to verify that they actually saw him getting his head slammed into the concrete, but the other is true and you said it wasnt. Now you are using the same witness to make your case...lol.

All we have is the cuts and bumps in the back of his head...not sure how he could have received those injuries to the back of the head. Unless he was being punched and his head was on the concrete at the same time. That could have happened...but it was one of the two and either could be considered reasonable to assume serious injury.

Zimmerman's head was slammed against something. It is consistent with his account.

So was Goode's 'ground and pound' testimony.

the medical professional that seen zimmerman the next day

also suggested that there was several bumps to his noggin

consistent with a ground and pound

she also went further

with the various abrasions on his face and checks as being consistent

with contact with cement

 

[Sallow]

Yes. The issue is whether Zimmerman legitimately feared for his life at the time he shot Martin. Nothing else matters.

Oh you bet that's NOT the issue.

Because if it is the issue..then there are much bigger problems.

That means anyone can shoot anyone else because of fear.

And we are back to the Old West.

I realize your reading skills are sub par. I wrote "legitimately". That excludes people who think someone following them at a decent distance is suddenly a threat.

One of those people, the one being followed..is dead.

The follower was the killer.

I pretty much think the guy being followed had a "legitimate" fear.

 

[Sallow]

Zimmerman's head was slammed against something. It is consistent with his account.

So was Goode's 'ground and pound' testimony.

the medical professional that seen zimmerman the next day

also suggested that there was several bumps to his noggin

consistent with a ground and pound

she also went further

with the various abrasions on his face and checks as being consistent

with contact with cement

Actually..she didn't say that.

She said, that's what "could" have happened.

By the way, all of Zimmerman's injuries were minor. In that, they did not require a hospital stay, stitches or anything more then a bandage. And small bandages at that.

 

[Ernie S.]

No..it isn't a good "deterrent". And it's been tried.

What do you think the whole "Wild West" thing was all about. Everyone had side arms and people wound up shooting each other because they were drunk or mad.

The gunfight at the OK corral was about gun control. We have been backsliding into a huge mess.

It's a great deterrent as I have illustrated above.

You haven't illustrated anything other than you might off some guy for cutting you off on the highway.

Then claim self defense.

I actually briefly considered doing that to the black asshole that repeatedly tried to run my motorcycle off the road down in Florida. The only reason I didn't shoot the MFer was that I like to keep both hands on the grips when I'm doing 105 trying to get away from mad men.

 

[Sallow]

It's a great deterrent as I have illustrated above.

You haven't illustrated anything other than you might off some guy for cutting you off on the highway.

Then claim self defense.

I actually briefly considered doing that to the black asshole that repeatedly tried to run my motorcycle off the road down in Florida. The only reason I didn't shoot the MFer was that I like to keep both hands on the grips when I'm doing 105 trying to get away from mad men.

Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

[Sunshine]

Yes. The issue is whether Zimmerman legitimately feared for his life at the time he shot Martin. Nothing else matters.

Oh you bet that's NOT the issue.

Because if it is the issue..then there are much bigger problems.

That means anyone can shoot anyone else because of fear.

And we are back to the Old West.

Anyone CAN shoot anyone else because of fear - 'reasonable fear.' This is not a prima facie case for self defense. Self defense has been upheld by the higher courts and in the statutes for years. And there is no 'he started it' clause.

 

[Sunshine]

I dismiss it because it is irrelevant. Whether Zimmerman was suspicious or not is irrelevant. Even if he was, that is not grounds to punch someone. The presence of the gun was not known until Trayvon saw it while he was punching Zimmerman. Thus its presence is irrelevant.
You are very ignorant of laws of self defense. I would suggest getting some information on the topic before spouting off again.

I believe that anyone who doesn't have a permit to carry a concealed weapon can still legally wear a gun an holster. I know several people here who do that and they are well within the law because the gun is not concealed. The presence of a gun is irrelevant except tot he extent that once it was known, li'l Trayvon pursued a really stupid course of action. Running away in a zig zag pattern would have been his best option and likely not one shot would have been fired. But if it had been it would have been very difficult to hit him. Here in KY, we like our guns, our whiskey, our horses, and our game filled woodlands. Pretty much everyone is armed.

It depends on the state. In FL you must have a permit to carry. I dont know whether they allow open carry or not.

If the carry permit is a concealed carry permit and there is no law forbidding open carry, then open carry is legal. That's how the system works. You can do what you want unless what you want to do is forbidden by law.

 

[Sallow]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

How so?

Actually, it isn't.

Neither is murder or rape.

 

[Ernie S.]

You haven't illustrated anything other than you might off some guy for cutting you off on the highway.

Then claim self defense.

I actually briefly considered doing that to the black asshole that repeatedly tried to run my motorcycle off the road down in Florida. The only reason I didn't shoot the MFer was that I like to keep both hands on the grips when I'm doing 105 trying to get away from mad men.

Thanks for illustrating my point.

You obviously are unfamiliar with what happens when an SUV hits a motorcycle from behind at 105 miles per hour. The man was trying to kill me with no provocation. I would have been well within my rights to use deadly force to end the threat.

 

[Sallow]

Yes. The issue is whether Zimmerman legitimately feared for his life at the time he shot Martin. Nothing else matters.

Oh you bet that's NOT the issue.

Because if it is the issue..then there are much bigger problems.

That means anyone can shoot anyone else because of fear.

And we are back to the Old West.

Anyone CAN shoot anyone else because of fear - 'reasonable fear.' This is not a prima facie case for self defense. Self defense has been upheld by the higher courts and in the statutes for years. And there is no 'he started it' clause.

Those cases generally come with a "proportional use of force" and prior to stand your grand, you were required to try and get away, first.

It's be sliding thanks to the gun lobby into..who ever is the fastest draw, wins.

Grats.

 

[Sallow]

I believe that anyone who doesn't have a permit to carry a concealed weapon can still legally wear a gun an holster. I know several people here who do that and they are well within the law because the gun is not concealed. The presence of a gun is irrelevant except tot he extent that once it was known, li'l Trayvon pursued a really stupid course of action. Running away in a zig zag pattern would have been his best option and likely not one shot would have been fired. But if it had been it would have been very difficult to hit him. Here in KY, we like our guns, our whiskey, our horses, and our game filled woodlands. Pretty much everyone is armed.

It depends on the state. In FL you must have a permit to carry. I dont know whether they allow open carry or not.

If the carry permit is a concealed carry permit and there is no law forbidding open carry, then open carry is legal. That's how the system works. You can do what you want unless what you want to do is forbidden by law.

And that's what the post above yours, states.

You can't open carry in New York. And getting a concealed carry permit is extremely difficult.

 

[Sunshine]

I'm not a big guy myself. AND I'm getting to the point where I just don't feel like trading punches with some low life.
As the saying goes, never start a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you, he'll just shoot you.

Not everybody carries a gunb.

No one I know does. I carry a gun.

Almost every lawyer I know carries.

 

[Sallow]

I actually briefly considered doing that to the black asshole that repeatedly tried to run my motorcycle off the road down in Florida. The only reason I didn't shoot the MFer was that I like to keep both hands on the grips when I'm doing 105 trying to get away from mad men.

Thanks for illustrating my point.

You obviously are unfamiliar with what happens when an SUV hits a motorcycle from behind at 105 miles per hour. The man was trying to kill me with no provocation. I would have been well within my rights to use deadly force to end the threat.

You obviously have no idea about the visibility in an SUV. Bike are hard to see when you are in a car. And most bikers just love to weave in and out of traffic or between lanes.

And what state has a legal speed limit of 105?

Seems like you were breaking the law.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I believe that anyone who doesn't have a permit to carry a concealed weapon can still legally wear a gun an holster. I know several people here who do that and they are well within the law because the gun is not concealed. The presence of a gun is irrelevant except tot he extent that once it was known, li'l Trayvon pursued a really stupid course of action. Running away in a zig zag pattern would have been his best option and likely not one shot would have been fired. But if it had been it would have been very difficult to hit him. Here in KY, we like our guns, our whiskey, our horses, and our game filled woodlands. Pretty much everyone is armed.

It depends on the state. In FL you must have a permit to carry. I dont know whether they allow open carry or not.

If the carry permit is a concealed carry permit and there is no law forbidding open carry, then open carry is legal. That's how the system works. You can do what you want unless what you want to do is forbidden by law.

yup

out here we have open carry no permit needed

cc permit needed

 

[25Caliber]

incorrect on what

his assistance was requested four times prior to

"we dont need you to do that"


which btw is not an order

as evidenced by testimony in court last week

by the NWP coordinator

Its incorrect because it suggests the dispatcher is requesting it on foot instead of common knowledge or from a distance. Dispatch is asking...not requesting that he go get it on foot.

it doesnt suggest anything

other then the police wanted zimmerman to continue to keep them

informed of the situation

it is not against the law for zimmerman to exit his vehicle

was it very smart to do so

not so much

but it certainly is not criminal

people do dumb things all day every day

they certainly do not deserve to have their head bashed into the sidewalk

Congratulations! Youre the first person to say that it wasnt smart for him to exit his vehicle. Certainly not criminal...not against the law to open your car door. All things considered...it got him and a teen in a whole lot of trouble. Hes not a cop...he has a duty to report not come off as the same creep he is reporting...and thats what he looked like that night to anyone not privy to his private conversation with 911...some adult following a teen in the dark.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh you bet that's NOT the issue.

Because if it is the issue..then there are much bigger problems.

That means anyone can shoot anyone else because of fear.

And we are back to the Old West.

Anyone CAN shoot anyone else because of fear - 'reasonable fear.' This is not a prima facie case for self defense. Self defense has been upheld by the higher courts and in the statutes for years. And there is no 'he started it' clause.

Those cases generally come with a "proportional use of force" and prior to stand your grand, you were required to try and get away, first.

It's be sliding thanks to the gun lobby into..who ever is the fastest draw, wins.

Grats.

Wrong on most counts. There is no "proportional use of force" in most places. The common law standard is very clear.

 

[The Rabbi]

Its incorrect because it suggests the dispatcher is requesting it on foot instead of common knowledge or from a distance. Dispatch is asking...not requesting that he go get it on foot.

it doesnt suggest anything

other then the police wanted zimmerman to continue to keep them

informed of the situation

it is not against the law for zimmerman to exit his vehicle

was it very smart to do so

not so much

but it certainly is not criminal

people do dumb things all day every day

they certainly do not deserve to have their head bashed into the sidewalk

Congratulations! Youre the first person to say that it wasnt smart for him to exit his vehicle. Certainly not criminal...not against the law to open your car door. All things considered...it got him and a teen in a whole lot of trouble. Hes not a cop...he has a duty to report not come off as the same creep he is reporting...and thats what he looked like that night to anyone not privy to his private conversation with 911...some adult following a teen in the dark.

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.