The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[TheGreatGatsby]

It's a joke that this case is even going to trial. We've reached a point where we'll actually put a guy on trial for murder merely for the sake of politics! The system is out of control.

 

[25Caliber]

It's because Zimmerman is not telling the truth. Never has been. He's trying to cover his ass. The freaked-out expression on his face in every picture I see tells me that he knows he fucked up and is desperate to get away with it.

You bring up a very good point. Trayvon believed he was being followed because it was being done in a blatant manner. Which is why the kid felt threatened.

Thanks. The thing is...to me there is something desperately wrong on both sides. In the interest of being objective...because frankly, its not much fun taking one side...lol. One side? Booooorinnng. There are mistakes and bad judgment on both sides why not show both?

To me...Tray was being followed in a way that pissed him off...he felt threatened. On the other hand I dont buy the counter argument that Tray was running away scared either. It seems that both sides would love it if that were true...I mean it hits their narrative right on the head.

GZ makes it sound like he was just taking a stroll thru his residency and then a casual stroll up a sidewalk. Nope doesnt make sense, otherwise Tray wouldnt have felt threatened or have been pissed and would have just went back to his house and watched the damn all star game. I dont think Tray was seeking him out initially, I think he thought some strange creep was following him (later with a flashlight in the dark) and it pissed him off...cant say I blame him especially considering the fact that GZ never identified himself or his intentions or suspicions and he had numerous opportunities to do so.

Neither of these scenarios make sense, but I cant get the bias of each side to give an inch and help me figure it out...lol. .

It seems most find it easy to put themselves in GZs position, but what if you are trayvon and you have committed no crime, you are in a strange neighborhood being followed by a strange person you have never met or even seen before? What about what was going through trayvons mind?...What would be going thru your childs mind? Hell, I would have been a little pissed too. Then later he appears to be following you in the direction of where you are staying and using a flashlight in the dark? Pretty creepy if you ask me.

To me, GZ made it obvious that he knew Trayvon thought he was being followed when he told the dispatch "he is running away". That right there is his first indicator that he may not want to pursue any further...after all you have observed no crime and now you have to go up the sidewalk looking with the aid of a flashlight in the dark. You are asking to be surprised...I mean who wants to be followed by someone with a flashlight in the dark? At the very least, GZ should have realized that he had not identified himself and that this strange person running away did not know who he was or why he was being followed. Big mistake...why is that so difficult to see? Nope, all i get is that it wasnt illegal to walk up a sidewalk...lol.

I never know which wall you're going to bounce off of.

Thank you...thats because I look very deeply into both sides...constantly. Im not swayed by obvious biased posters from either side...I think for myself. Like you and your gangsta profiling. I know i know...your 25 yrs of working with the youth allows you to spot a teen in a hoodie in the dark and rain as a gangster a mile away...lol.

I might give logical reasoning and thought for Zimmerman later today...stay tuned.

With all of your supposed expertise I would expect you to be able to do the same...havnt seen it yet.

Its not easy being me...you have to hold no bias, you see no color, you think outside of the box, you look deep into the entire situation from both sides of the conflict...you can usually get to the truth and begin proper problem solving...it works really good for me.

 

[Zarius]

What year did TM play FB?

Bering suspended from school = losing the privilege to play FB.

Annnnnnnnnd...how can anyone be non-confrontational if they do play FB, unless someone is the water boy? One has to be somewhat aggressive!!

Disclaimer: I am not implying that TM was a water boy.

Look at Z. Molested his cousin. Had a restraining order for beating his girlfriend.

Paranoid, bully, coward.

The "molesting cousin" thing occurred when he was like 8 and his cousin was 6. I don't think it has much to do with anything.

His former fiancée took out a restraining order against him and he got into trouble for fighting with a cop.

This man should not have had a gun.

Zimmerman will kill again.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Here's a question for the group.

When the prosecution gave its opening, the claim from the State of Florida was that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because he (Zimmerman) WANTED to.

Has the prosecution come even one bit closer to "showing" any such thing since they made that (I say) irresponsible claim in the opening?

What piece of evidence so far actually supports that claim?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Thanks. The thing is...to me there is something desperately wrong on both sides. In the interest of being objective...because frankly, its not much fun taking one side...lol. One side? Booooorinnng. There are mistakes and bad judgment on both sides why not show both?

To me...Tray was being followed in a way that pissed him off...he felt threatened. On the other hand I dont buy the counter argument that Tray was running away scared either. It seems that both sides would love it if that were true...I mean it hits their narrative right on the head.

GZ makes it sound like he was just taking a stroll thru his residency and then a casual stroll up a sidewalk. Nope doesnt make sense, otherwise Tray wouldnt have felt threatened or have been pissed and would have just went back to his house and watched the damn all star game. I dont think Tray was seeking him out initially, I think he thought some strange creep was following him (later with a flashlight in the dark) and it pissed him off...cant say I blame him especially considering the fact that GZ never identified himself or his intentions or suspicions and he had numerous opportunities to do so.

Neither of these scenarios make sense, but I cant get the bias of each side to give an inch and help me figure it out...lol. .

It seems most find it easy to put themselves in GZs position, but what if you are trayvon and you have committed no crime, you are in a strange neighborhood being followed by a strange person you have never met or even seen before? What about what was going through trayvons mind?...What would be going thru your childs mind? Hell, I would have been a little pissed too. Then later he appears to be following you in the direction of where you are staying and using a flashlight in the dark? Pretty creepy if you ask me.

To me, GZ made it obvious that he knew Trayvon thought he was being followed when he told the dispatch "he is running away". That right there is his first indicator that he may not want to pursue any further...after all you have observed no crime and now you have to go up the sidewalk looking with the aid of a flashlight in the dark. You are asking to be surprised...I mean who wants to be followed by someone with a flashlight in the dark? At the very least, GZ should have realized that he had not identified himself and that this strange person running away did not know who he was or why he was being followed. Big mistake...why is that so difficult to see? Nope, all i get is that it wasnt illegal to walk up a sidewalk...lol.

I never know which wall you're going to bounce off of.

Thank you...thats because I look very deeply into both sides...constantly. Im not swayed by obvious biased posters from either side...I think for myself. Like you and your gangsta profiling.

something of a side note

it is interesting the course of events in martins life

that led to that meeting between he and zimmerman that night

it is a sad story really

 

[Sunshine]

If every state had a stand your ground law there would be a lot more shootings.

That law is unconstitutional.

this was not and is not a stand your ground case

This..is why the cops let Zimmerman go in the first place.

And didn't conduct an extensive investigation.

They were confused about the law.

It is the DA, spelled District Attorney, who files the charges. Not the cops. Unlike you, he is a licensed attorney.

 

[Katzndogz]

follow a guy in florida because he is black, get punched in the nose for doing it, and shoot and kill that unarmed kid.............and get away with it?

God bless america.

n e g g e d !!!

Had Martin just punched Zimmerman in the nose that would have been the end of it. It was the ground and pound that got him shot.

 

[RKMBrown]

A coward? Hell no. When I'm assaulted, I'll do whatever I have to to survive. If that includes taking a life, so be it. That's hardly cowardly I have the courage and the ability to act to save my life or the life of another. You have the courage only to call me a coward.

So if this little girl stepped on your toe and threatened to take your life with a bobby pin, you shoot her dead? No hesitation, no reasoned thought, just pull the trigger.

Boy playing with toy gun is shot by sheriff's deputy - Los Angeles Times



Boy, 12, with toy gun shot, killed by police



North Miami Beach police kill mentally disabled man carrying toy gun - Crimesider - CBS News

Saying the real culprits are authentic-looking toy guns, the Brooklyn District Attorney announced yesterday that he would not attempt to prosecute the housing police officer who shot and killed a 13-year-old boy last September after suddenly coming upon the boy playing cops and robbers.

Standing behind a table displaying 16 black and silver toy guns, the District Attorney, Charles J. Hynes, said an investigation by his office made it "abundantly clear that the circumstances leading to the tragic death of this 13-year-old were not the fault of Police Officer Brian George, but rather the result of a proliferation of imitation toy guns."

No Charges in Death of Boy With Toy Gun - NYTimes.com

WEST MEMPHIS, Ark. — A 12-year-old boy who was carrying a toy gun was shot to death Friday evening by a West Memphis police officer, who apparently thought the gun was rea

Police Chief Bob Paudert said officers were on surveillance at an apartment building near a hotel about 10 p.m. when the boy appeared.

"The child had a toy pistol that looked identical to a real weapon. He did have a toy pistol with him and the officer saw it and fired shots. Two shots, I think," Paudert told the Memphis (Tenn.) Commercial Appeal. "It's a very tragic and unfortunate incident that happened."

Youth brandishing toy gun fatally shot by Ark. officer

Are you getting the picture?

Yes. Sad picture. Seems we would all be better off if we put the lives of others over our own. Then maybe we would not be so assuming in our defensive positions.

 

[legaleagle_45]

I am "implying" that the restraining order would have barred Zimmerman from owning a handgun in New York, much less being able to carry it in the streets.

Things wrong with your assertions:

1.) The existence of a current civil domestic restraining order is a disqualifier to own any gun under federal law, New York Law and Florida Law.

2.) The existence of a lapsed civil restraining order is not a disqualifier to own a gun under federal law, New York Law and Florida Law. Source for NY law: New York State Penal Law Sections 265 and 400; New York General Business Law 39 - DD; #9 - DDD

3.) At the time Zimmerman received his concealed weapons permit, there was no current civil domestic restraining order in place.

4.) In connection with obtaining his concealed weapons permit, Zimmerman was required to undergo a full FBI fingerprint background check, which is much more extensive than the New York background check requirements to purchase a firearm.

5.) Zimmerman passed the full FBI fingerprint background check.

6.) Zimmerman would have also passed the NY background check and be eligible to purchase a gun under New York law if he were a resident of the state at the time as New York State Law merely requires a NICS background check which is not as extensive as a full FBI fingerprint background check.

7.) You obviously do not know what you are talking about.

 

[Sunshine]

Is that all, pee wee?

No, I forgot to include your GOLD standard, the HuffyPuffyBlowTheTruthUp Post.


Sorry 'bout that.

George Zimmerman 'Stand Your Ground' Defense: Neighborhood Watchman Won't Seek Immunity Hearing


Regards,
SirRattusOfCamembert.

Fear my intelligence. There is plenty of reason to do that,

Your intelligence is personified below:

 

[jon_berzerk]

follow a guy in florida because he is black, get punched in the nose for doing it, and shoot and kill that unarmed kid.............and get away with it?

God bless america.

n e g g e d !!!

Had Martin just punched Zimmerman in the nose that would have been the end of it. It was the ground and pound that got him shot.

that appears to be the situation

 

[Zarius]

follow a guy in florida because he is black, get punched in the nose for doing it, and shoot and kill that unarmed kid.............and get away with it?

God bless america.

n e g g e d !!!

Had Martin just punched Zimmerman in the nose that would have been the end of it. It was the ground and pound that got him shot.

Bullshit! That murdering racist was going to shoot that kid no matter what. He fantasized about it along with his racist friends and family. Let him go free. Its up to Trayvon's family to get revenge. The justice system doesn't give a shit about Black kids. That's our own fault. Doesn't mean we cant seek our own vengeance.

 

[legaleagle_45]

It's called "menacing".

Menacing Law & Legal Definition

Perhaps you should contact Angela Corey and explain to her how she messed up by not including a menacing charge against Zimmerman? Maybe they can still amend the charging instrument to include "menacing". You can drop her a line at:

Courthouse Annex
220 East Bay Street
Jacksonville, Florida, 32202

I am sure she will be so impressed with your credentials as legal wiz extraordinaire on the US Message Boards that she will hire you at once.

 

[jon_berzerk]

It's called "menacing".

Menacing Law & Legal Definition

Perhaps you should contact Angela Corey and explain to her how she messed up by not including a menacing charge against Zimmerman? Maybe they can still amend the charging instrument to include "menacing". You can drop her a line at:

Courthouse Annex
220 East Bay Street
Jacksonville, Florida, 32202

I am sure she will be so impressed with your credentials as legal wiz extraordinaire on the US Message Boards that she will hire you at once.

you are getting a lot of good mileage

with that one

--LOL

 

[jon_berzerk]

I think many in here are using information they have in hindsight instead of putting themselves in the situation of the two that night that had no information...lol. Think about it...your opinion is established based on information after the fact...neither GZ or Trayvon had that same information.

For example we all know that GZ was a neighborhood watch captain, there were several burglaries in the area recently, and that GZ was on the phone with 911...Trayvon didnt know that. And if you didnt know that would it change your perception on that night? It would have to.

Its like watching poker on tv with the ability to see all the cards and then yelling at the bet being ridiculous because you wouldnt have done that...well yeah, because you can see the other guys cards...duh!

that is the same information the jury is going to have

 

[Sunshine]

I'll admit I use Jorge to indicate his Hispanic side if you admit you use "Tray to show that you see him as a child. OK? Like I say: I think you are fair and open minded. Probably the most unbiased observer in the thread. I'm only pointing out what I and a couple others have noticed as a means of illustrating what comes across as a perhaps, unconscious bias.
I'm turning in for the night. Sleep well, my friend.

Oh okay...so you will admit to what you are obviously doing as long as I admit to what you suspect me of doing...lol...sounds like a pretty good deal for you.

Its all good, ernie...you seem like a stand up guy to me. Wasnt trying to portray that image...just a little too lazy to spell it out fully is all. I can see how it would project that image...not my intent.

BTW, he wasnt 12, but he was still a minor @17. Even GZ identified him as someone in his late teens.

Exactly! but the prosecution wants you, me, the jury to think of him as the 12 year old in that photo we first saw of him.
For the same reason, they refer to him as Trayvon/Treyvon/Trevon (I've seen all 3 spellings) and George Zimmerman as just plain "Zimmerman" or occasionally Mr. Zimmerman, further driving home the point that Martin was a child and Zimmerman was an adult.

Well, folks! Trayvon Martin stopped being a "child" when he attacked George Zimmerman. It's a shame that he was a young man for less than one minute.

Each state has it's own rules about who is tried as and adult and who is not.

In the law a juvenile is defined as a person who is not old enough to be held responsible for criminal acts. In most states and on the federal level, this age threshold is set at 18 years. In Wyoming a juvenile is a person under the age of 19. In some states a juvenile is a person under the age of 17, and in Connecticut, New York, and North Carolina, a juvenile is a person under the age of 16. These age definitions are significant because they determine whether a young person accused of criminal conduct will be charged with a crime in adult court or will be required to appear in juvenile court.

Trying Juveniles as Adults legal definition of Trying Juveniles as Adults. Trying Juveniles as Adults synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

But all states allow minors to be tried as an adult under certain circumstances.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/9912_2/juv5.html

I realize that li'l Trayvon is not the one on trial here. But I'm really tired of him being referred to as a 'child.'

child n. 1) a person's natural offspring. 2) a person 14 years and under. A "child" should be distinguished from a "minor" who is anyone under 18 in almost all states.

child legal definition of child. child synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Li'l Trayvon was a minor, he was not a child. If he had prevailed and killed Zimmerman, he would likely have been tried as an adult in adult court.

 

[25Caliber]

I am "implying" that the restraining order would have barred Zimmerman from owning a handgun in New York, much less being able to carry it in the streets.

Things wrong with your assertions:

1.) The existence of a current civil domestic restraining order is a disqualifier to own any gun under federal law, New York Law and Florida Law.

2.) The existence of a lapsed civil restraining order is not a disqualifier to own a gun under federal law, New York Law and Florida Law. Source for NY law: New York State Penal Law Sections 265 and 400; New York General Business Law 39 - DD; #9 - DDD

3.) At the time Zimmerman received his concealed weapons permit, there was no current civil domestic restraining order in place.

4.) In connection with obtaining his concealed weapons permit, Zimmerman was required to undergo a full FBI fingerprint background check, which is much more extensive than the New York background check requirements to purchase a firearm.

5.) Zimmerman passed the full FBI fingerprint background check.

6.) Zimmerman would have also passed the NY background check and be eligible to purchase a gun under New York law if he were a resident of the state at the time as New York State Law merely requires a NICS background check which is not as extensive as a full FBI fingerprint background check.

7.) You obviously do not know what you are talking about.

I would be very interested in how you would go about defending Trayvon...lets here the other side. Help! lol.

 

[Ernie S.]

Thanks for illustrating my point.

You obviously are unfamiliar with what happens when an SUV hits a motorcycle from behind at 105 miles per hour. The man was trying to kill me with no provocation. I would have been well within my rights to use deadly force to end the threat.

You obviously have no idea about the visibility in an SUV. Bike are hard to see when you are in a car. And most bikers just love to weave in and out of traffic or between lanes.

And what state has a legal speed limit of 105?

Seems like you were breaking the law.

I don't weave in and out of traffic. I know exactly what visibility he had. I looked right in his eyes. He was intent on killing me.

As to the speed, the asshole was behind me at that point, trying to ram me. I didn't want to go so fast I lost sight of him, hoping we came up upon a police officer.\
I was doing what I could to stay alive. Are you saying I had no right in that case to exceed the speed limit? That I should have let the poor downtrodden black man in the Escalade run me down? Just like George Zimmerman should have allowed that cute 12 year old, Trayvon Martin, to beat him to death? Is that it Sallow? It really is as simple as black and white, isn't it?

 

[RKMBrown]

n e g g e d !!!

Had Martin just punched Zimmerman in the nose that would have been the end of it. It was the ground and pound that got him shot.

Bullshit! That murdering racist was going to shoot that kid no matter what. He fantasized about it along with his racist friends and family. Let him go free. Its up to Trayvon's family to get revenge. The justice system doesn't give a shit about Black kids. That's our own fault. Doesn't mean we cant seek our own vengeance.

Were both gz and tm racists? Was this purely a race war hit? Possible I suppose that they both saw the other as the enemy based on skin. Sad.

 

[Missourian]

Lets just say for arguments sake that the incident stopped with Trayvon punching GZ. He punched him and just after he punched him the cops came running around the corner and stopped it.

What would have happened? Wouldnt the cops have had a big decision to make? Like wait a minute...who was carrying on suspiciously here.

GZ gives his version of why he thinks Trayvon is suspicious.

Then trayvon gives his version as to why he thinks GZ was suspicious.

The cops then ask Trayvon why he punched GZ...

Trayvon: Well Im walking home from 7-11 and I notice this guy following me in a truck...no big deal...then I walk by the clubhouse on my way home and hes sitting parked in an empty parking lot in front of the clubhouse (which is closed) and hes eyeballing me and talking to someone on the phone. So I keep walking and the same truck comes around the corner and parks right along the walk hereby the mailboxes...I walk by and hes still staring at me and speaking on the phone....then I run up the walk in the direction of dads fiances house. This man gets out of his truck and follows me on foot carrying a flashlight...Im getting really concerned...all im doing is walking home...so i ask him is there a problem...why are you following me? When i do he tells me there isnt a problem and begins frantically reaching for his pockets on the right side and Im thinking hes grabbing a weapon of some sort, so I hit him.

The Cops: Hmmm...okay...well Mr Zimmerman is that true? What were you reaching for?

GZ: Well officer I was reaching for my phone...I was gonna call 911 on him. I was scared and fealt threatened.

Cops: Do me a favor Mr Zimmerman...where is your phone? Do me a favor lift up your coat there on the right side...is that a gun?

GZ: Well yeah, I have a permit.

Cops: But your phone isnt in your right pocket...its in your left pocket...your gun is there though.

At this point...GZ has no case and this goes no where. GZ never identifies himself, is 28 years old following a minor suspiciously through the complex in a truck and up the walk on foot with a flashlight and holstering a pistol and reaching in that direction when he is hit.

So if the situation stops there...who is the aggressor? Who really appears to be the creepy fellow?

it is still the crime of assault to punch someone in the face

Think a little deeper...hes a minor being followed in the dark by a man who when confronted went reaching in the direction of his gun. Ill take that case all day and win 100 out of 100 times.

Here's were things don't jive...

IF Martin is worried about Zimmerman's gun...wouldn't he be trying to control Zimmerman's hands? NOT punching him in the face and head?