The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sunshine]

So you admit to being a coward by using a gunb on an unarmed juvenile

A coward? Hell no. When I'm assaulted, I'll do whatever I have to to survive. If that includes taking a life, so be it. That's hardly cowardly I have the courage and the ability to act to save my life or the life of another. You have the courage only to call me a coward.

So if this little girl stepped on your toe and threatened to take your life with a bobby pin, you shoot her dead? No hesitation, no reasoned thought, just pull the trigger.

A boy in Palmdale who was playing cops and robbers with a toy gun was shot and wounded Sunday night by a Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy, authorities said.

The boy was shot in the upper torso and was expected to survive, said Deputy Ed Hernandez, a sheriff's spokesman. He declined to release the victim's name or age.

Boy playing with toy gun is shot by sheriff's deputy - Los Angeles Times

A West Memphis police officer shot and killed a 12-year-old boy late Friday night, mistaking the child’s silver toy gun for a real handgun, authorities said Saturday.

The shooting occurred about 9:53 p.m. while two officers were on a stakeout hoping to break a string of convenience-store armed robberies near North 24th Street and Goodwin Avenue.

The officers waited in the dark parking lot of the Steeplechase Apartments just south of Interstate 40 and Interstate 55. They saw two people, yelling and running, and got out of the car to confront them, Assistant Police Chief Mike Allen said.

Boy, 12, with toy gun shot, killed by police

(CBS/WFOR) MIAMI - North Miami Beach Police are piecing together an officer-involved shooting and killing of a mentally disabled man. The man was originally thought to be carrying a gun but it was later determined to be a toy rifle.

North Miami Beach police kill mentally disabled man carrying toy gun - Crimesider - CBS News

Saying the real culprits are authentic-looking toy guns, the Brooklyn District Attorney announced yesterday that he would not attempt to prosecute the housing police officer who shot and killed a 13-year-old boy last September after suddenly coming upon the boy playing cops and robbers.

Standing behind a table displaying 16 black and silver toy guns, the District Attorney, Charles J. Hynes, said an investigation by his office made it "abundantly clear that the circumstances leading to the tragic death of this 13-year-old were not the fault of Police Officer Brian George, but rather the result of a proliferation of imitation toy guns."

No Charges in Death of Boy With Toy Gun - NYTimes.com

WEST MEMPHIS, Ark. — A 12-year-old boy who was carrying a toy gun was shot to death Friday evening by a West Memphis police officer, who apparently thought the gun was rea

Police Chief Bob Paudert said officers were on surveillance at an apartment building near a hotel about 10 p.m. when the boy appeared.

"The child had a toy pistol that looked identical to a real weapon. He did have a toy pistol with him and the officer saw it and fired shots. Two shots, I think," Paudert told the Memphis (Tenn.) Commercial Appeal. "It's a very tragic and unfortunate incident that happened."

Youth brandishing toy gun fatally shot by Ark. officer

Are you getting the picture?

 

[25Caliber]

it doesnt suggest anything

other then the police wanted zimmerman to continue to keep them

informed of the situation

it is not against the law for zimmerman to exit his vehicle

was it very smart to do so

not so much

but it certainly is not criminal

people do dumb things all day every day

they certainly do not deserve to have their head bashed into the sidewalk

Congratulations! Youre the first person to say that it wasnt smart for him to exit his vehicle. Certainly not criminal...not against the law to open your car door. All things considered...it got him and a teen in a whole lot of trouble. Hes not a cop...he has a duty to report not come off as the same creep he is reporting...and thats what he looked like that night to anyone not privy to his private conversation with 911...some adult following a teen in the dark.

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Congratulations! Youre the first person to say that it wasnt smart for him to exit his vehicle. Certainly not criminal...not against the law to open your car door. All things considered...it got him and a teen in a whole lot of trouble. Hes not a cop...he has a duty to report not come off as the same creep he is reporting...and thats what he looked like that night to anyone not privy to his private conversation with 911...some adult following a teen in the dark.

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

"Aggressively following"? What crime is that? What part of that justifies getting punched?
You make stuff up and ignore the relevant details.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Congratulations! Youre the first person to say that it wasnt smart for him to exit his vehicle. Certainly not criminal...not against the law to open your car door. All things considered...it got him and a teen in a whole lot of trouble. Hes not a cop...he has a duty to report not come off as the same creep he is reporting...and thats what he looked like that night to anyone not privy to his private conversation with 911...some adult following a teen in the dark.

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

so far the testimony is that zimmerman did not follow

when the defense presents its case

you will see the debris field starting at the T

and traveling to the place where martins body laid

take this into account with deedees testimony

that martin made it home and returned

in addition according to witnesses it would

have been to dark for zimmerman to be following martin

 

[Sunshine]

follow a guy in florida because he is black, get punched in the nose for doing it, and shoot and kill that unarmed kid.............and get away with it?

God bless america.

n e g g e d !!!

 

[Sunshine]

Your IQ is lower than toe cheese.

^^^ Immaturity level: Expert

Maturity level: Puerile^

You've used that word twice, now. Time to go search out a new one.

 

[25Caliber]

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

"Aggressively following"? What crime is that? What part of that justifies getting punched?
You make stuff up and ignore the relevant details.

I would suggest following someone in your truck and on foot and reaching for your gun and not identifying yourself at minimum minimizes your case of self defense. That why cops dont like you following people. You are not trained to handle the situation, defuse the situation identifying yourself, etc.

Im not committing a crime by walking into a lions den either, but I might not get off with self defense If I enter it and shoot all the Lions charging me.

Make what up...you are making up that i am making up....lol. Im just trying to find out if you are someone objective enough to look at the case in its entirety. Im having my doubts.

 

[Sunshine]

Big difference between "thinking" someone is "about to" commit a crime, and observing someone who is actually commiting a crime. And there's also a big difference in how you can respond.

Let's not rush things here, we are talking about just the observation at this point.

I agree with what has already been posted. GZ has every right to observe and follow someone he viewed as suspicious. Whether he was armed or not, and what community club he was a member of has no relevance.

I don't care if George Zimmerman danced a jig behind Martin while singing the "Oompaloompa Song". It still doesn't make it acceptable for Martin to assault him, or revoke Zimmerman's right to defend himself when Martin DID assault him. Last time I checked, the law doesn't require anyone to "avoid a confrontation", nor is it illegal to be annoying.

Some states have a provision in the self defense statutes a provision that you must retreat before using deadly force. Florida is not one of them. Neither is the state where I live.

 

[25Caliber]

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

so far the testimony is that zimmerman did not follow

when the defense presents its case

you will see the debris field starting at the T

and traveling to the place where martins body laid

take this into account with deedees testimony

that martin made it home and returned

in addition according to witnesses it would

have been to dark for zimmerman to be following martin

1. He did follow...trayvon went up the path and he followed with a flashlight...thats on the 911 tape and GZs own words.

2. Touche...want to hear the defenses case...I may change my opinion...but as of now...this is where I stand.

3. Not too dark to follow with a flashlight...in evidence already.

4. I doubt seriously that will we see anything solidifying the fact that he absolutely made it home and returned...certainly cant rely on deedees testimony. She doesnt know home from vicinity or front door from building.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

so far the testimony is that zimmerman did not follow

when the defense presents its case

you will see the debris field starting at the T

and traveling to the place where martins body laid

take this into account with deedees testimony

that martin made it home and returned

in addition according to witnesses it would

have been to dark for zimmerman to be following martin

1. He did follow...trayvon went up the path and he followed with a flashlight...thats on the 911 tape and GZs own words.

2. Touche...want to hear the defenses case...I may change my opinion...but as of now...this is where I stand.

3. Not too dark to follow with a flashlight...in evidence already.

4. I doubt seriously that will we see anything solidifying the fact that he absolutely made it home and returned...certainly cant rely on deedees testimony. She doesnt know home from vicinity or front door from building.

ever use a flashlight at night in almost totally black out

you get a few feet of out of it

one of the witnesses said she had a hard time seeing martin

when a cop shined a light on him

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Let's not rush things here, we are talking about just the observation at this point.

I agree with what has already been posted. GZ has every right to observe and follow someone he viewed as suspicious. Whether he was armed or not, and what community club he was a member of has no relevance.

I don't care if George Zimmerman danced a jig behind Martin while singing the "Oompaloompa Song". It still doesn't make it acceptable for Martin to assault him, or revoke Zimmerman's right to defend himself when Martin DID assault him. Last time I checked, the law doesn't require anyone to "avoid a confrontation", nor is it illegal to be annoying.

Some states have a provision in the self defense statutes a provision that you must retreat before using deadly force. Florida is not one of them. Neither is the state where I live.

NY has the "duty to retreat" proviso but it applies only if and where the person (i.e. the defendant) is able to do so in complete safety.

And it does not apply in one's own home.

When you have been laid out with a broken nose on your back and your attacker is on top of you and astride you and is raining blows down on you and bashing the back of your head into the concrete, it is pretty fucking difficult to retreat (in complete safety or at all).

If Zimmerman's account is accurate, it wouldn't even matter if Florida did have the "duty to retreat" on its law books for justification. The law never imposes a duty to do the impossible.

 

[25Caliber]

so far the testimony is that zimmerman did not follow

when the defense presents its case

you will see the debris field starting at the T

and traveling to the place where martins body laid

take this into account with deedees testimony

that martin made it home and returned

in addition according to witnesses it would

have been to dark for zimmerman to be following martin

1. He did follow...trayvon went up the path and he followed with a flashlight...thats on the 911 tape and GZs own words.

2. Touche...want to hear the defenses case...I may change my opinion...but as of now...this is where I stand.

3. Not too dark to follow with a flashlight...in evidence already.

4. I doubt seriously that will we see anything solidifying the fact that he absolutely made it home and returned...certainly cant rely on deedees testimony. She doesnt know home from vicinity or front door from building.

ever use a flashlight at night in almost totally black out

you get a few feet of out of it

one of the witnesses said she had a hard time seeing martin

when a cop shined a light on him

Well the point is that trayvon went that way and then observed GZ also going that way...GZ confirms he went that way...thus he followed whether he was carrying a flashlight or not. Those little flashlights can give off more light than you think...thats why he was using it. It gave him better vision.

 

[Sunshine]

I've got a doozy of an alternate theory, myself.

I think it is the P.A.'s alternate theory as well.

I picked up on it from some of the questions the Prosecutor was asking.

share if so choose

PM sent.

[MENTION=11800]Missourian[/MENTION]

Oh come one. Don't leave the rest of us hanging.

 

[Sallow]

Anyone CAN shoot anyone else because of fear - 'reasonable fear.' This is not a prima facie case for self defense. Self defense has been upheld by the higher courts and in the statutes for years. And there is no 'he started it' clause.

Those cases generally come with a "proportional use of force" and prior to stand your grand, you were required to try and get away, first.

It's be sliding thanks to the gun lobby into..who ever is the fastest draw, wins.

Grats.

Wrong on most counts. There is no "proportional use of force" in most places. The common law standard is very clear.

Give it a rest.

In sane states like New York, you can't blow a kid away because you are losing the fight you started.

That would murder.

 

[Sallow]

He is hardly the first person to say that.
But it is irrelevant. Trayvon put Zimmerman in reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm and Zimmerman neutralized the threat by shooting him. Zimmerman will walk free.

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

"Aggressively following"? What crime is that? What part of that justifies getting punched?
You make stuff up and ignore the relevant details.

It's called "menacing".

Menacing Law & Legal Definition

 

[RKMBrown]

What good is a gun with no bullet in the chamber? I carry cocked and locked. The gun is safe until I unholster and depress the grip safety.

I more commonly carry a revolver. I never carry it with the hammer down on an empty chamber. That practice is outdated with transfer bar technology. A modern revolver simply will not discharge until the trigger is pulled.

We know you and your new friend know shit about firearms, but you are amusing to watch flail about.

Well Ernie, I am no gun nut, but I know a little bit. Been around guns since the age of seven..and I pretty much have decided I don't like them.

I see almost no need for citizens to be carrying them around, wild west style, to settle scores, like not being able to stop robberies from occurring in "their complexes" and making sure the "asshole" doesn't get away this time.

And I know enough that people like you, who can't handle themselves in the street and walk around with a chip on their shoulders, you know, like Zimmerman..should not being carrying guns.

Hopefully you don't lose it and shoot someone.

I've been around guns my whole life, Sallow and I've never shot anyone.

As close as I've gotten is once, in 1971, racking a round into the chamber of a pump shotgun to convince a man that he really didn't want to rape my wife and a second time 19 years later I showed my weapon to a crack addict that was about to rob me at knife point.
In neither case did I fire and in the second case, my .44 magnum never left my shoulder holster. The intimidation factor was sufficient to deter 2 would be dead guys.

No. I doubt I will ever "lose it" and shoot someone, but I am prepared to do so, should it become necessary.

Why didn't GZ use the gun in the way you used your weapons has been the root of my questioning GZ's actions. I applaud your choice to let them live.

 

[25Caliber]

I think many in here are using information they have in hindsight instead of putting themselves in the situation of the two that night that had no information...lol. Think about it...your opinion is established based on information after the fact...neither GZ or Trayvon had that same information.

For example we all know that GZ was a neighborhood watch captain, there were several burglaries in the area recently, and that GZ was on the phone with 911...Trayvon didnt know that. And if you didnt know that would it change your perception on that night? It would have to.

Its like watching poker on tv with the ability to see all the cards and then yelling at the bet being ridiculous because you wouldnt have done that...well yeah, because you can see the other guys cards...duh!

 

[Sunshine]

Get a punch in the nose? No You can't shoot. Get knocked down, jumped on and take repeated blows in "MMA style" and the asshole on top is fair game no matter what his complexion is.

You know you can kill someone with a punch to the nose, right? GZ should have just shot him right away lest the teen get a chance to do anything. What does it matter about the sidewalk? The kid was there, he's a thug right? Why give him the chance at all? GZ was scared of the dark, so he was justified right? I had a good friend die falling out of a bus, his head hit the concrete and he was gone just like that. We can't run the risk of thug teens tackling anyone. What we need is you guys to go around and put the mark of cane on all the thugs so we know which ones to shoot in case any of them come at us.

How about we just raise kids so they don't attack people in dark courtyards?
If Treyvon Martin had kept his arrogant piss ass attitude in check and simply returned to his fathers residence, he would be alive. Your problem is that you want to excuse his gangster wannabe life style and crucify a man who acted in self defense.

For that matter, if he had behaved himself and not gotten expelled from school, he would be alive.

 

[Sunshine]

After looking at the tapes again...there is something that kinda bothers me. Maybe you guys can help.

If GZ observes tray in front of a house and continues to drive down the street as he says and then takes a right turn and parks in front of the clubhouse and then later pulls around the corner. Why does Tray think he is being followed. Its made to look like he is passed once (nothing abnormal about that)...parks in front of a clubhouse (he lives there nothing abnormal there)...he pulls around the corner stops and sees Trayvon approaching and walking by. Later he strolls up the walk...whats so abnormal about that?...there are residents strolling up and down sidewalks all day.

Why does Trayvon believe he is being followed? How was it so obvious? It seems to me that the way GZ portrays he would just be another resident driving thru the neighborhood and strolling up a walkway.

It's because Zimmerman is not telling the truth. Never has been. He's trying to cover his ass. The freaked-out expression on his face in every picture I see tells me that he knows he fucked up and is desperate to get away with it.

You bring up a very good point. Trayvon believed he was being followed because it was being done in a blatant manner. Which is why the kid felt threatened.

Thanks. The thing is...to me there is something desperately wrong on both sides. In the interest of being objective...because frankly, its not much fun taking one side...lol. One side? Booooorinnng. There are mistakes and bad judgment on both sides why not show both?

To me...Tray was being followed in a way that pissed him off...he felt threatened. On the other hand I dont buy the counter argument that Tray was running away scared either. It seems that both sides would love it if that were true...I mean it hits their narrative right on the head.

GZ makes it sound like he was just taking a stroll thru his residency and then a casual stroll up a sidewalk. Nope doesnt make sense, otherwise Tray wouldnt have felt threatened or have been pissed and would have just went back to his house and watched the damn all star game. I dont think Tray was seeking him out initially, I think he thought some strange creep was following him (later with a flashlight in the dark) and it pissed him off...cant say I blame him especially considering the fact that GZ never identified himself or his intentions or suspicions and he had numerous opportunities to do so.

Neither of these scenarios make sense, but I cant get the bias of each side to give an inch and help me figure it out...lol. .

It seems most find it easy to put themselves in GZs position, but what if you are trayvon and you have committed no crime, you are in a strange neighborhood being followed by a strange person you have never met or even seen before? What about what was going through trayvons mind?...What would be going thru your childs mind? Hell, I would have been a little pissed too. Then later he appears to be following you in the direction of where you are staying and using a flashlight in the dark? Pretty creepy if you ask me.

To me, GZ made it obvious that he knew Trayvon thought he was being followed when he told the dispatch "he is running away". That right there is his first indicator that he may not want to pursue any further...after all you have observed no crime and now you have to go up the sidewalk looking with the aid of a flashlight in the dark. You are asking to be surprised...I mean who wants to be followed by someone with a flashlight in the dark? At the very least, GZ should have realized that he had not identified himself and that this strange person running away did not know who he was or why he was being followed. Big mistake...why is that so difficult to see? Nope, all i get is that it wasnt illegal to walk up a sidewalk...lol.

I never know which wall you're going to bounce off of.

 

[thanatos144]

I see a lot of folks talking about Trayvon attacked the killer George Zimmerman from the back. However, no where has this ever been stated, nor corroborated in the media nor in court thus far.

Don't you people feel foolish making crap up all the time?

What percentage of time do you make stuff up?




I've read that Zimmerman said Martin came up behind him. But I'm not aware of an account saying that Martin was still behind Zimmerman when Martin attacked.

Never...aka zero percent.

Post any credible links that states that Trayvon attacked the killer Zimmerman.

I guess to a racist like you actually witness testimony is a lie

Welcome to my nightmare