The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Luddly Neddite]

Remember evidence that strongly supports Zimmerman doesn't matter to these people.

They don't believe in self defense or anything. How do you get to become a hater of justice?

You're wrong.

I absolutely do believe that Trayvon Martin had the right to stand his ground and defend himself against this jerk who was following him, stalking him and ultimately killed him for the crime of being black while wearing a hoodie.

What is being ignored is that Martin had every right to be walking back from the store, every right to be where he was.

It was GZ who attacked him - for no reason other than his wacko wish to be a pretend cop.

This case is an excellent example of the Mighty Mouse Syndrome of the gun nutters. GZ is a mealy mouthed little chicken shit coward who wanted to swoop down and save the day. He wanted to be the big hero who caught the bad guy.

 

[The Rabbi]

Back on ignore...you are one rude and bitter person...others can look at the posts proving you wrong and decide for themselves...have a great day.

Translation: Damn I look stupid.
Yes, you do look stupid. You think a report of what someone said has more credibility than what someone actually said. I guess you never played telephone as a kid.
So to review: Zimmerman did not lie about Trayvon grabbing the gun. His testimony has not only been consistent but is also not contradicted by the DNA evidence. With some allowance for variance, given the horrific situation he found himself in and the adrenaline rush he must have had, Zimmerman has been a very good and consistent player. Like many of us in the gun community he undoubtedly practiced for a day like this. He was aware of all the rules and knew what to say.
The prosecution has failed so far to disprove his assertion of self defense. They would have to show that a reasonable person was not in fear of his life when he shot. Instead they are farting around trying to push a narrative of a wannabe cop that was discredited weeks ago. The prosecution will fail. Zimmerman will go fee.

Yeah...I do...when the person is his best friend testifying under oath...are you saying that he would lie in his best friends murder trial. its the defenses job to refute it...they did not. I guess GZ could take the stand and deny it...then it will be up to the jury who they believe...but the best friend who was otherwise a great witness for GZ will be awfully credible to the jury. Its simple really...he gave two stories...one to his best friend and one to the cops. Its really not that hard to understand.

No I dont believe everything GZ says and if you do more power to you. You might as well take your vacation, because your job is done here...nothing more to see or look at it...GZs word is golden...go on vacation what more is there for you to do? I think your naive and simplistic and gullable.

I'm glad you agree you look stupid.
Again, you are stuck on someone is either telling the exact same thing or he's lying. This black and white thinking marks you as having inferior intelligence. I already explained the dynamic here. That you ignore it and double down on stupid is your problem.

 

[Sarah G]

I'm not deranged, and I disagree. Martin was not a "kid," but was a young man bigger and stronger than Zimmerman. Zimmerman acted in self defense to an aggressive racist Martin who had a history of crime.

Zimmerman will be acquitted, and rightfully so.

His 17th birthday was 21 days before he died. He was a 16 yr. old kid. See, this kind of excusing the murderer that's going on here makes you all seem foolhardy. It's redneck speak, like you have no sense.

 

[Foxfyre]

My admittedly feeble research affirms that manslaughter is auto included in FL. The matter will be further litigated before jury instructions.

The defense will fight tooth-and-nail to keep it out. I don't see a conflict from the prosecution POV. Both charges include elements of culpability, M2 obviously much more so. But manslaughter charges culpable negligence and the prosecution evidence so far could be construed to prove that charge.

Unfortunately the jury may see a manslaughter conviction as a compromise verdict. I disagree. In essence, a manslaughter conviction would fly in the face of the evidence presented thus far and be a complete dismissal of the self-defense assertion. The jurors, however, may feel that this murder could have been avoided but for GZ's actions and, if so, then they will convict on manslaughter.

Do I have this correct?

According to the attorney I linked while ago though, involuntary manslaughter is not automatically included in Florida and if the judge does allow it despite defense objections, it will give the defense immediate grounds for appeal.

But I do not see how any jury could convict GZ on manslaughter purely by his presence in a public area unless they can prove that GZ intentionally threatened TM. There is zero evidence that GZ even approached Martin, much less provoked an altercation. To accuse GZ on those grounds would be akin to me walking in on a robbery in action, the robber panicking and pulling the trigger, and then the defense accuses me of instigating the shooting because if I had not walked in, the robber would not have shot.

If GZ had trespassed or otherwise been engaged in any unlawful activity, then the manslaughter charge could be valid.

 

[Snookie]

Yep...the only things I have seen is that it is florida law and that the defense has a right to object...separate hearing near the end of trial. Not all states do it but florida law requires it be included as a lesser charge from what Ive seen.

I don't think they did it during the casey anthony trial, did they?

Not sure...i thought it was...she was cleared of everything

Florida is a funny place.

You can't fix stupid.

 

[testarosa]

My admittedly feeble research affirms that manslaughter is auto included in FL. The matter will be further litigated before jury instructions.

The defense will fight tooth-and-nail to keep it out. I don't see a conflict from the prosecution POV. Both charges include elements of culpability, M2 obviously much more so. But manslaughter charges culpable negligence and the prosecution evidence so far could be construed to prove that charge.

Unfortunately the jury may see a manslaughter conviction as a compromise verdict. I disagree. In essence, a manslaughter conviction would fly in the face of the evidence presented thus far and be a complete dismissal of the self-defense assertion. The jurors, however, may feel that this murder could have been avoided but for GZ's actions and, if so, then they will convict on manslaughter.

Do I have this correct?

Yep...the only things I have seen is that it is florida law and that the defense has a right to object...separate hearing near the end of trial. Not all states do it but florida law requires it be included as a lesser charge from what Ive seen.

I don't think they did it during the casey anthony trial, did they?

Stop making me come back here.

She was charged differently:

On October 14, 2008, Casey Anthony was indicted by a grand jury on charges of first degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child, and four counts of providing false information to police

 

[pioneerpete]

Remember evidence that strongly supports Zimmerman doesn't matter to these people.

They don't believe in self defense or anything. How do you get to become a hater of justice?

You're wrong.

I absolutely do believe that Trayvon Martin had the right to stand his ground and defend himself against this jerk who was following him, stalking him and ultimately killed him for the crime of being black while wearing a hoodie.

What is being ignored is that Martin had every right to be walking back from the store, every right to be where he was.

It was GZ who attacked him - for no reason other than his wacko wish to be a pretend cop.

This case is an excellent example of the Mighty Mouse Syndrome of the gun nutters. GZ is a mealy mouthed little chicken shit coward who wanted to swoop down and save the day. He wanted to be the big hero who caught the bad guy.

That is an excellent theory. Could you provide evidence that GZ committed assault that started the confrontation?

 

[testarosa]

She was found guilty of the four counts of lying her ass off and slapped with restitution and filed bankruptcy.

 

[Snookie]

My admittedly feeble research affirms that manslaughter is auto included in FL. The matter will be further litigated before jury instructions.

The defense will fight tooth-and-nail to keep it out. I don't see a conflict from the prosecution POV. Both charges include elements of culpability, M2 obviously much more so. But manslaughter charges culpable negligence and the prosecution evidence so far could be construed to prove that charge.

Unfortunately the jury may see a manslaughter conviction as a compromise verdict. I disagree. In essence, a manslaughter conviction would fly in the face of the evidence presented thus far and be a complete dismissal of the self-defense assertion. The jurors, however, may feel that this murder could have been avoided but for GZ's actions and, if so, then they will convict on manslaughter.

Do I have this correct?

According to the attorney I linked while ago though, involuntary manslaughter is not automatically included in Florida and if the judge does allow it despite defense objections, it will give the defense immediate grounds for appeal.

But I do not see how any jury could convict GZ on manslaughter purely by his presence in a public area unless they can prove that GZ intentionally threatened TM. There is zero evidence that GZ even approached Martin, much less provoked an altercation. To accuse GZ on those grounds would be akin to me walking in on a robbery in action, the robber panicking and pulling the trigger, and then the defense accuses me of instigating the shooting because if I had not walked in, the robber would not have shot.

If GZ had trespassed or otherwise been engaged in any unlawful activity, then the manslaughter charge could be valid.

It seems like it's easy to get away with murder the way the laws are.

If there is not a video then the killer walks.

The mafia used to do the same thing. Kill the witnesses and get acquired. It's the American way.

We need some laws for victim's rights.

 

[25Caliber]

Translation: Damn I look stupid.
Yes, you do look stupid. You think a report of what someone said has more credibility than what someone actually said. I guess you never played telephone as a kid.
So to review: Zimmerman did not lie about Trayvon grabbing the gun. His testimony has not only been consistent but is also not contradicted by the DNA evidence. With some allowance for variance, given the horrific situation he found himself in and the adrenaline rush he must have had, Zimmerman has been a very good and consistent player. Like many of us in the gun community he undoubtedly practiced for a day like this. He was aware of all the rules and knew what to say.
The prosecution has failed so far to disprove his assertion of self defense. They would have to show that a reasonable person was not in fear of his life when he shot. Instead they are farting around trying to push a narrative of a wannabe cop that was discredited weeks ago. The prosecution will fail. Zimmerman will go fee.

Yeah...I do...when the person is his best friend testifying under oath...are you saying that he would lie in his best friends murder trial. its the defenses job to refute it...they did not. I guess GZ could take the stand and deny it...then it will be up to the jury who they believe...but the best friend who was otherwise a great witness for GZ will be awfully credible to the jury. Its simple really...he gave two stories...one to his best friend and one to the cops. Its really not that hard to understand.

No I dont believe everything GZ says and if you do more power to you. You might as well take your vacation, because your job is done here...nothing more to see or look at it...GZs word is golden...go on vacation what more is there for you to do? I think your naive and simplistic and gullable.

I'm glad you agree you look stupid.
Again, you are stuck on someone is either telling the exact same thing or he's lying. This black and white thinking marks you as having inferior intelligence. I already explained the dynamic here. That you ignore it and double down on stupid is your problem.

Blah blah...get off my leg.

 

[pioneerpete]

Teen convicted in videotaped beating death in West Rogers Park - chicagotribune.com


A Chicago teen who allegedly took part in a vicious game known as "Pick 'Em Out and Knock 'Em Out" was found guilty Monday of murder and robbery charges in connection with the killing of a father of 12.

After a bench trial, Cook County Circuit Judge Joseph Claps convicted Anthony Malcolm, 19, saying he videotaped the attack on Delfino Mora, who was collecting cans in a West Rogers Park alley last July.

One of the teens, Malik Jones, now 17, announced, "I think I'm gonna knock out this (expletive)," and then started the video recorder on his cellphone. The phone ended up in Malcolm's hands, prosecutors said, before Jones punched Mora once in the jaw. Mora fell and struck his head on concrete.

Jones then removed $60 from Mora's wallet, prosecutors allege.

Mora, 62, was unconscious for about three hours before a passer-by found him. He died the next day of blunt trauma. A video of the attack was posted on Facebook, where it was shared by others until it was seen by a co-worker of the victim's son.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

How well did OJ's "If I did it" book do?

Key difference: OJ was guilty, GZ is innocent.

Not according to the jury.

Yup. The jury of public opinion.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

-----

I'm not deranged, and I disagree. Martin was not a "kid," but was a young man bigger and stronger than Zimmerman. Zimmerman acted in self defense to an aggressive racist Martin who had a history of crime.

Zimmerman will be acquitted, and rightfully so.

It wouldn't matter if GZ was a midget and Trayvon a football player.

GZ engaged Travon and then followed him even after Trayvon tried to get away from him. Trayvon had every right to fight back. If GZ hadn't been carrying a gun, their might have been a fight but that would have been the extent of it.

YOU have the right to walk to the store and back to your father's home. So did Trayvon. If YOU were approached and followed and threatened and stalked and tried to get away, YOU would have the right to stand your ground and defend yourself. So did Trayvon.

BUT you may well be right that GZ will walk but I don't believe he will ever be free or safe again. He wanted to be the big man but the reality is, he's a dead man walking and the safest place for him just might be jail.

 

[25Caliber]

My admittedly feeble research affirms that manslaughter is auto included in FL. The matter will be further litigated before jury instructions.

The defense will fight tooth-and-nail to keep it out. I don't see a conflict from the prosecution POV. Both charges include elements of culpability, M2 obviously much more so. But manslaughter charges culpable negligence and the prosecution evidence so far could be construed to prove that charge.

Unfortunately the jury may see a manslaughter conviction as a compromise verdict. I disagree. In essence, a manslaughter conviction would fly in the face of the evidence presented thus far and be a complete dismissal of the self-defense assertion. The jurors, however, may feel that this murder could have been avoided but for GZ's actions and, if so, then they will convict on manslaughter.

Do I have this correct?

According to the attorney I linked while ago though, involuntary manslaughter is not automatically included in Florida and if the judge does allow it despite defense objections, it will give the defense immediate grounds for appeal.

But I do not see how any jury could convict GZ on manslaughter purely by his presence in a public area unless they can prove that GZ intentionally threatened TM. There is zero evidence that GZ even approached Martin, much less provoked an altercation. To accuse GZ on those grounds would be akin to me walking in on a robbery in action, the robber panicking and pulling the trigger, and then the defense accuses me of instigating the shooting because if I had not walked in, the robber would not have shot.

If GZ had trespassed or otherwise been engaged in any unlawful activity, then the manslaughter charge could be valid.

It seems like it's easy to get away with murder the way the laws are.

If there is not a video then the killer walks.

The mafia used to do the same thing. Kill the witnesses and get acquired. It's the American way.

We need some laws for victim's rights.

Since the stand your ground law was implemented...self defense claims tripled...man stay out of florida as long as you are dead the shooter could claim anything...like George did...he saw my gun...told me I was gonna die tonight...then grabbed my gun...luckily I was able to wrestle it away from his grasp and shoot him in the heart.

~his best friend, Mark Osterman.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Ha! Well then of GZ writes a book perhaps someone will profit from it

Alas, I believe in the case of OJ, all profits were awarded to the families of the dead.

Only to Ron Goldman's family. Nicole's family didn't file a wrongful death suit.

I wonder how many folks were saying the Ron Goldman "started" the fight that ended his life and that his killer, killed him in self defense.

Nobody. Your idiot side was saying OJ wasn't there, that he had been in Chicago, remember? I guess that little point doesn't help you sell your false parallel though.

 

[Sunshine]

LOL! You've made some stupid posts before Sunshine but this is your crowning achievement.

And you would be our resident legal expert! NOT!

If she did in fact hide exculpatory evidence the Florida Bar can disbar her. The fat lady hasn't sung on this. And the fat lady is the Florida Bar. Of course, neither you nor Amy got this..... Typical of you both.....Brady v. Maryland requires full disclosure of exculpatory evidence.

Brady v. Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read it and weep:

These cases, including Nifong’s disbarment, demonstrate the difficulties
inherent in professional discipline of prosecutors, even in clear cases of
ethical misconduct. The ethical duty to “do justice” is hardly a real source
of discipline for two reasons. First, it applies to difficult to judge determinations—
the fundamentally discretionary decisions of whether to charge and
prosecute and other broad judgments about how to conduct the prosecution.
Second, proving the requisite knowledge or intent by the prosecutor is inherently
difficult both practically and theoretically. Even as to the somewhat
more concrete duty to disclose exculpatory information, many of
those same difficulties of characterization, knowledge, and intent make
professional discipline problematic. These cases in general, and the success
in the Nifong case in particular, show the importance of concrete standards
of conduct, such as an obligation of full disclosure, which apply to the
mundane details of the investigation as well as the exculpatory. Such requirements
have the definite advantage that they can be enforced in the first
instance without relying on a prosecutor to recognize, or a trial court to
find, the exculpatory potential in material in the investigative file.

From:

EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE, ETHICS, AND THE
ROAD TO THE DISBARMENT OF MIKE NIFONG: THE
CRITICAL IMPORTANCE OF FULL OPEN-FILE
DISCOVERY

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2486&context=faculty_scholarship

 

[pioneerpete]

-----

I'm not deranged, and I disagree. Martin was not a "kid," but was a young man bigger and stronger than Zimmerman. Zimmerman acted in self defense to an aggressive racist Martin who had a history of crime.

Zimmerman will be acquitted, and rightfully so.

It wouldn't matter if GZ was a midget and Trayvon a football player.

GZ engaged Travon and then followed him even after Trayvon tried to get away from him. Trayvon had every right to fight back. If GZ hadn't been carrying a gun, their might have been a fight but that would have been the extent of it.

YOU have the right to walk to the store and back to your father's home. So did Trayvon. If YOU were approached and followed and threatened and stalked and tried to get away, YOU would have the right to stand your ground and defend yourself. So did Trayvon.

BUT you may well be right that GZ will walk but I don't believe he will ever be free or safe again. He wanted to be the big man but the reality is, he's a dead man walking and the safest place for him just might be jail.

Or, if he didn't have a gun this would have happened:

Teen convicted in videotaped beating death in West Rogers Park - chicagotribune.com

One of the teens, Malik Jones, now 17, announced, "I think I'm gonna knock out this (expletive)," and then started the video recorder on his cellphone. The phone ended up in Malcolm's hands, prosecutors said, before Jones punched Mora once in the jaw. Mora fell and struck his head on concrete.

Mora died at the hands of a 16 year old's sucker punch. Is it unreasonable to think that this newly turned 17 year old couldn't have done the same to GZ?

 

[25Caliber]

I don't think they did it during the casey anthony trial, did they?

Not sure...i thought it was...she was cleared of everything

Florida is a funny place.

You can't fix stupid.

Yeah and that Orlando area seems to be particularly whacky.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes we do need laws for victims rights but that includes those who are accused of crimes they didn't commit and who are tried in the press and on message boards so that their reputations are permanently tarnished.

Again I do not know whether George Zimmerman is guilty of any crime. I do know the prosecution hasn't convinced me in any way that he is, and in fact has caused me to lean in the direction of Zimmerman's innocence when I was completely impartial when the trial started.

 

[Sunshine]

Citizen Grand Jury?

I seem to remember citizen grand juries of siding with Birthers and accusing Bush in the 9-11 attacks too.

All they are good for is riling the conspiracy nutters.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7482252-post13.html