The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[testarosa]

Ok..in FL, manslaughter is an automatic lesser included, it seems. Foxfyre is correct. It has not been decided yet. Defense motion(s) before jury instructions will ultimately force Judge Nelson to decide whether or not to include manslaughter.

Evidence in the Zimmerman Case May Not Support a Charge of Murder in the 2nd! | Malia Litman's Blog

Thanks for the info, all.

She'll say yes cause she's like that.

 

[AmyNation]

How well did OJ's "If I did it" book do?

The publisher of If I Did It: Confessions of a Killer, O.J. Simpson's hypothetical account of his ex-wife's slaying, says the book has hit No. 2 on the New York Times bestseller list for non-fiction

O.J.'s If I Did It reaches bestseller status - Arts & Entertainment - CBC News

Ha! Well then of GZ writes a book perhaps someone will profit from it

Alas, I believe in the case of OJ, all profits were awarded to the families of the dead.

 

[25Caliber]

It hasn't been decided yet. The jury instructions haven't been proffered yet. But you can bet there will be argument about it.

Well in florida its auto included on murder charges....so as of now the lesser charges are in and it would be up to the defense to object before instructions are read?

Do you have a more reputable link than the one from a Pennsylvania med mal attorney's blog that "auto included" is the hard and fast rule in Florida? Because I can't seem to find case law consistent with that notion. In fact, I'm finding the opposite; see Griffis v. State, 848 So. 2d 422 @ Google Scholar

yeah your link suggests that it was included, but objected to. I'll try to find something better...everything i read said by Florida law the lesser charges are required to be included and its up to the defense to object...even then i dont think the judge would take it out...I think it just sets up for a good appellate issue for the defense.

 

[RKMBrown]

You are close, but confusing elements of the two types of crime we are discussing. Murder requires intent; manslaughter does not. And intent is not an issue in this case, as Zimmerman intended to kill Martin. Zimmerman's argument essentially admits that his intent is consistent with the statutory requirements for murder 2.

Yeah I have no doubt that if the jury rules him not guilty of murder two that he's also not guilty of voluntary manslaughter. My question is to the lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter due to negligence. IOW does self-defense excuse negligence in a homicide.

Can't happen. The lesser included has to meet all the elements of the original charge. A killing can't be voluntary AND involuntary. Give it up.

Make up your mind. Either he shot the boy in self-defense or he killed the boy in self-defense. Are you actually saying the killing was intentional, or are you just projecting? If the argument is that he killed the boy on purpose... ok fine I say it was 2nd degree murder then. You can't escalate a fist fight to a killing on purpose..

 

[wharfrat]

Jury instructions, lesser charges, mens rea, affirmative defenses, statutes, case law...I give!

I'm going to pop some firecrackers and drink some suds to celebrate my country's Independence Day!

Enjoy the day all!

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Ok..in FL, manslaughter is an automatic lesser included, it seems. Foxfyre is correct. It has not been decided yet. Defense motion(s) before jury instructions will ultimately force Judge Nelson to decide whether or not to include manslaughter.

Evidence in the Zimmerman Case May Not Support a Charge of Murder in the 2nd! | Malia Litman's Blog

Thanks for the info, all.

She'll say yes cause she's like that.

I'm hoping when the state's defense team rests tomorrow, that the judge decides to dismiss the case for lack of proof.

That would be a great b-day present for me.

 

[AmyNation]

GZ didn't kill Trayvon Martin?

I had no idea he was arguing that.

Kill or murder? Because, I don't think anybody is disputing that he killed Travis.

Kill.

Whether he's found guilty of a crime doesn't change the fact that he killed a 17 year old kid.

 

[Ravi]

LOL! You've made some stupid posts before Sunshine but this is your crowning achievement.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

How well did OJ's "If I did it" book do?

The publisher of If I Did It: Confessions of a Killer, O.J. Simpson's hypothetical account of his ex-wife's slaying, says the book has hit No. 2 on the New York Times bestseller list for non-fiction

O.J.'s If I Did It reaches bestseller status - Arts & Entertainment - CBC News

Ha! Well then of GZ writes a book perhaps someone will profit from it

Alas, I believe in the case of OJ, all profits were awarded to the families of the dead.

Only to Ron Goldman's family. Nicole's family didn't file a wrongful death suit.

 

[25Caliber]

Actually no.

This establishes a pattern of knowingly telling lies.

Alone? It wouldn't have made much difference. But in the scope of the totality of what Zimmerman has been saying? It paints a different story.

It's really to bad that Zimmerman's previous violent behavior and trouble with the law can't be let into the record. Because that completes the picture.

There is no pattern of telling lies. Zimmerman didnt lie in this case. As far as I can tell ZImmerman never lied.
You are the only one lying here. You lie because you think Trayvon was right and you identify with him as an aggressor.

Well sure..he has.

He lied to the police. And he's lied on national television.

Correct...his college professor and best friend within the last two days testified to it under oath...unrefuted by the defense.

 

[testarosa]

By choosing to charge George Zimmerman with second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin, Angela B. Corey, the special prosecutor appointed to the case in Florida, selected the toughest possible charge involving a killing short of first-degree murder, which requires a finding of premeditation and carries the death penalty as a possible punishment.

Under second-degree murder, the jury must find that a death was caused by a criminal act “demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life,” said Eric Abrahamsen, a criminal defense lawyer in Tallahassee, reading from the state’s standard jury instructions. The maximum sentence for second-degree murder is life in prison; the minimum penalty under these charges is 25 years.

Dan Markel, a law professor at Florida State University, said he was “very surprised” by the severity of the charges “in light of the evidence that seems to have been brought to the attention of the public so far.” Many legal experts had predicted that Mr. Zimmerman would be charged with manslaughter.

At trial, however, the question of self-defense can be brought up again and possibly will, said Robert Weisberg, a criminal law expert at Stanford Law School. That could lead to a fallback position for the jury — if allowed by the judge — of a lesser verdict of manslaughter should the jury decide that Mr. Zimmerman sincerely but unreasonably believed that he was appropriately using lethal force to defend himself, which is known as “imperfect self-defense.”

Either side in the case could request that the judge instruct the jury to consider that middle ground, and if the evidence supports such a finding the judge will in almost all cases comply, Professor Weisberg said. A confident prosecutor may not want to risk missing the toughest conviction, however, and a confident defense lawyer may not want to risk giving the jurors a lesser charge that they can choose instead of acquittal. And so, he said, the question may come down to, “Who’s feeling lucky?”

 

[pioneerpete]

While DNA evidence is being pooh-poohed on this thread, what do these guys below have in common?

The vast majority were exonerated after DNA evidence proved their innocence.
The Innocence Project was started by Barry Scheck, who was part of OJ Simpson's defense team. Quite a role reversal.



Last ↓ First ↓ State ↓ Conviction Year ↓ Exoneration Year ↓
Abbitt Joseph NC 1995 2009
Abdal Habib Wahir NY 1983 1999
Adams Kenneth IL 1979 1996
Alejandro Gilbert TX 1990 1994
Alexander Richard IN 1998 2001
Anderson Marvin VA 1982 2002
Arledge Randolph TX 1984 2013
Atkins Herman CA 1988 2000
Avery Steven WI 1985 2003
Avery William D. WI 2004 2010
Ayers David OH 2000 2011
Bain James FL 1974 2009
Barbour Bennett VA 1978 2012
Barnes Steven NY 1989 2009
Barr Jonathan IL 1997 2011
Bauer Chester MT 1983 1997
Beaver Antonio MO 1997 2007
Bibbins Gene LA 1987 2003
Bivens Phillip MS 1980 2010
Blair Michael TX 1994 2008
Bloodsworth Kirk MD 1985 1993
Booker Donte OH 1987 2005
Boquete Orlando FL 1983 2006
Bostic Larry FL 1989 2007
Bradford Marcellius IL 1988 2001
Bradford Ted WA 1996 2010
Bravo Mark Diaz CA 1990 1994
Brewer Kennedy MS 1995 2008
Briscoe Johnny MO 1983 2006
Brison Dale PA 1990 1994
Bromgard Jimmy Ray MT 1987 2002
Brown Dennis LA 1985 2005
Brown Danny OH 1982 2001
Brown Roy NY 1992 2007
Brown Keith NC 1993 1997
Brown Patrick PA 2002 2010
Bryson David Johns OK 1983 2003
Bullock Ronnie IL 1984 1994
Buntin Harold IN 1986 2005
Burnette Victor VA 1979 2009
Butler A.B. TX 1983 2000
Byrd Kevin TX 1985 1997
Cage Dean IL 1996 2008
Callace Leonard NY 1987 1992
Capozzi Anthony NY 1987 2007
Caravella Anthony FL 1986 2010
Chalmers Terry NY 1987 1995
Charles Clyde LA 1982 1999
Charles Ulysses Rodriguez MA 1984 2001
Chatman Charles TX 1981 2008
Clark Robert GA 1982 2005
Coco Allen LA 1997 2006
Cole Timothy TX 1986 2009
Cotton Ronald NC 1985, 1987 1995
Courtney Sedrick OK 1996 2012
Courtney Uriah CA 2006 2013
Cowans Stephan MA 1998 2004
Criner Roy TX 1990 2000
Cromedy McKinley NJ 1994 1999
Crotzer Alan FL 1981 2006
Cruz Rolando IL 1985 1995
Cunningham Calvin Wayne VA 1981 2011
Dabbs Charles NY 1984 1991
Dail Dwayne Allen NC 1989 2007
Danziger Richard TX 1990 2002
Davidson Willie VA 1981 2005
Davis Gerald WV 1987 1995
Davis Dewey WV 1987 1995
Davis Cody FL 2006 2007
Davis Larry W. WA 1993 2010
Davis Jeramie WA 2008 2013
Daye Frederick CA 1984 1994
Dean James NE 1990 2009
Dedge Wilton FL 1982 2004
Deskovic Jeff NY 1990 2006
Dewey Robert CO 1996 2012
Diamond Garry VA 1977 2013
Diaz Luis FL 1980 2005
Dillon William FL 1981 2008
Dixon John NJ 1991 2001
Dixon Bobby Ray MS 1980 2010
Dominguez Alejandro IL 1990 2002
Doswell Thomas PA 1986 2005
Dotson Gary IL 1979 1989
Dupree Cornelius TX 1980 2011
Durham Timothy OK 1993 1997
Echols Douglas GA 1987 2002
Edwards James IL 1996 2012
Elkins Clarence OH 1999 2005
Erby Lonnie MO 1986 2003
Evans Michael IL 1977 2003
Evans Jerry Lee TX 1987 2009
Fain Charles Irvin ID 1983 2001
Fappiano Scott NY 1985 2006
Fears Jr. Joseph OH 1984 2009
Fountain Wiley TX 1986 2003
Fritz Dennis OK 1988 1999
Fuller Larry TX 1981 2007
Gates Donald Eugene DC 1982 2009
Giles James Curtis TX 1983 2007
Gillard Larry IL 1982 2009
Godschalk Bruce PA 1987 2002
Gonzalez Hector NY 1996 2002
Gonzalez Kathy NE 1990 2009
Good Donald Wayne TX 1984 2004
Goodman Bruce Dallas UT 1986 2004
Gossett Andrew TX 2000 2007
Gray David A. IL 1978 1999
Gray Anthony MD 1991 1999
Gray Paula IL 1978 2002
Green Edward DC 1990 1990
Green Kevin CA 1980 1996
Green Michael OH 1988 2001
Green Michael Anthony TX 1983 2010
Gregory William KY 1993 2000
Halsey Byron NJ 1988 2007
Halstead Dennis NY 1987 2005
Harden James IL 1995 2011
Harris William O’Dell WV 1987 1995
Harrison Clarence GA 1987 2004
Hatchett Nathaniel MI 1998 2008
Hayes Travis LA 1998 2007
Haynesworth Thomas VA 1984 2011
Heins Chad FL 1996 2007
Henton Eugene TX 1984 2006
Hernandez Alejandro IL 1985 1995
Hicks Anthony WI 1991 1997
Holdren Larry WV 1985 2000
Holemon Jeffrey AL 1988 1999
Holland Dana IL 1993 2003
Honaker Edward VA 1985 1994
Hunt Darryl NC 1985 2004
Ireland Kenneth CT 1989 2009
Jackson Willie LA 1989 2006
Jackson Dwayne NV 2003 2011
Jackson Raymond TX 1984 2012
James Henry LA 1982 2011
Jean Lesly NC 1982 2001
Jenkins Jerry Lee MD 1987 2013
Jimerson Verneal IL 1985 1996
Johnson Albert CA 1992 2002
Johnson Calvin GA 1983 1999
Johnson Larry MO 1984 2002
Johnson Richard IL 1992 1996
Johnson Rickie LA 1983 2008
Johnson Arthur MS 1993 2008
Johnson Anthony LA 1986 2010
Jones Joe KS 1986 1992
Jones Ronald IL 1989 1999
Jones David Allen CA 1995 2004
Kagonyera Kenneth NC 12/13/2001 2011
Karage Entre Nax TX 1997 2005
Kelly William PA 1990 1993
Kogut John NY 1986 2005
Kordonowy Paul D. MT 1990 2003
Kotler Kerry NY 1982 1992
Krone Ray AZ 1992 2002
Laughman Barry PA 1988 2004
Lavernia Carlos TX 1985 2000
Lindsey Johnnie TX 1981, 1985 2009
Linscott Steven IL 1982 1992
Lloyd Eddie Joe MI 1985 2002
Lowery Eddie James KS 1982 2003
Lyons Marcus IL 1988 2007
Mahan Ronnie AL 1986 1998
Mahan Dale AL 1986 1998
Maher Dennis MA 1984 2003
Marshall Michael GA 2008 2009
Matthews Ryan LA 1999 2004
Mayes Larry IN 1982 2001
McCarty Curtis OK 1986, 1989 2007
McClendon Robert OH 1991 2008
McCray Antron NY 1990 2002
McGee Arvin OK 1989 2002
McGowan Thomas TX 1985/1986 2008
McKinney Lawrence TN 1978 2009
McMillan Clark TN 1980 2002
McSherry Leonard CA 1988 2001
Mercer Michael NY 1992 2003
Miller Billy Wayne TX 1984 2006
Miller Neil MA 1990 2000
Miller Robert OK 1988 1998
Miller Jerry IL 1982 2007
Mitchell Perry SC 1984 1998
Mitchell Marvin MA 1990 1997
Moon Brandon TX 1988 2005
Moore Curtis Jasper VA 1978 2008
Morton Michael TX 1987 2011
Moto Vincent PA 1987 1996
Mumphrey Arthur TX 1986 2006
Nelson Bruce PA 1982 1991
Nelson Robert MO 1984 2013
Nesmith Willie PA 1982 2000
Newton Alan NY 1985 2006
Northrop Alan G. WA 1993 2010
O’Donnell James NY 1998 2000
Ochoa James CA 2005 2006
Ochoa Christopher TX 1989 2002
Odom Kirk DC 1981 2012
Ollins Larry IL 1988 2001
Ollins Calvin IL 1988 2001
Ortiz Victor NY 1984 1996
Ott Chaunte WI 1996 2009
Pacyon Douglas NY 1985 2010
Patterson Maurice IL 2003 2010
Peacock Freddie NY 1976 2010
Pendleton Marlon IL 1996 2006
Peterson Larry NJ 1989 2006
Phillips Steven TX 1982, 1983 2008
Pierce Jeffrey OK 1986 2001
Pinchback Johnny TX 10/05/1984 2011
Piszczek Brian OH 1991 1994
Pope David Shawn TX 1986 2001
Powell Anthony MA 1992 2004
Rachell Ricardo TX 2003 2009
Rainge Willie IL 1979 1996
Restivo John NY 1987 2005
Reynolds Donald IL 1988 1997
Richardson Kevin NY 1990 2002
Richardson James WV 1989 1999
Richardson Harold IL 1997 2012
Rivera Juan IL 1992 2012
Robinson Anthony TX 1987 2000
Rodriguez George TX 1987 2005
Rollins Lafonso IL 1994 2004
Roman Miguel CT 1990 2009
Rose Peter CA 1996 2005
Ruffin Julius VA 1982 2003
Ruffin Larry MS 1980 2010
Saecker Fredric WI 1990 1996
Salaam Yusef NY 1990 2002
Salazar Ben TX 1992 1997
Santana Raymond NY 1990 2002
Sarsfield Eric MA 1987 2000
Saunders Omar IL 1988 2001
Saunders Michael IL 1997 2012
Scott Calvin Lee OK 1983 2003
Scott Samuel GA 1987 2002
Scruggs Dwayne IN 1986 1993
Sharp Shainne IL 1994 2012
Shelden Debra NE 1989 2009
Shephard David NJ 1984 1995
Smith Walter D. OH 1986 1996
Smith Billy James TX 1987 2006
Smith Frank Lee FL 1986 2000
Snyder Walter VA 1986 1993
Starks Bennie IL 1986 2013
Sterling Frank NY 1992 2010
Stinson Robert Lee WI 1985 2009
Sutherlin David Brian MN 1985 2002
Sutton Josiah TX 1999 2004
Swift Terrill IL 1998 2012
Taylor Ronald Gene TX 1995 2008
Taylor Ada JoAnn NE 1990 2009
Taylor Robert IL 1997 2011
Terry Paul IL 1977 2003
Thames Vincent IL 1998 2012
Thibodeaux Damon LA 1997 2012
Thomas Victor Larue TX 1986 2002
Thompson Hubert CT 1998 2012
Thurman Phillip Leon VA 1985 2005
Tillman James CT 1989 2006
Toney Steven MO 1983 1996
Towler Raymond OH 1981 2010
Townsend Jerry Frank FL Various 2001
Tribble Santae DC 1980 2012
Turner Keith E. TX 1983 2005
Vasquez David VA 1985 1989
Veal Robert Lee IL 1995 2011
Velasquez Eduardo MA 1988 2001
Villasana Armand MO 1999 2000
Waller James TX 1983 2007
Waller Patrick TX 1992 2008
Wallis Gregory TX 1989 2007
Wardell Billy IL 1988 1997
Warney Douglas NY 1997 2006
Washington Earl VA 1984 2000
Washington Calvin TX 1987 2001
Waters Leo NC 1982 2003
Waters Kenny MA 1983 2001
Watkins Jerry IN 1986 2000
Watkins John Kenneth AZ 2004 2010
Webb Mark TX 1987 2002
Webb Troy VA 1989 1996
Webb Thomas OK 1983 1996
Webster Bernard MD 1983 2002
White John Jerome GA 1980 2007
White Joseph NE 1989 2008
Whitfield Arthur Lee VA 1982 2004
Whitley Drew PA 1989 2006
Wiggins David TX 1989 2012
Wilcoxson Robert NC 08/15/2002 2011
Williams Michael Anthony LA 1981 2005
Williams Dennis IL 1978 1996
Williams Willie GA 1985 2007
Williams Derrick FL 1993 2011
Williams James Curtis TX 1984 2012
Williams Johnny CA 2000 2013
Williamson Ron OK 1988 1999
Willis John IL 1992, 1993 1999
Willis Calvin LA 1982 2003
Winslow Thomas NE 1990 2009
Wise Korey NY 1990 2002
Woodall Glen WV 1987 1992
Woodard James Lee TX 1981 2009
Woods Anthony D. MO 1984 2005
Wyniemko Kenneth MI 1994 2003
Yarris Nicholas PA 1982 2003
York Kenneth MO 1994 2010
Youngblood Larry AZ 1985 2000

The Innocence Project - Home

GZ's DNA was not on the trigger and his fingerprints are not on the gun. Does that mean that he didn't shoot?

 

[AmyNation]

I've always wondered if they regret not filing. Although to hear he Goldmans tell it, they really haven't seen any money from OJ and that filing was more about punishment and keeping him from profiting than it was about getting themselves anything.

 

[testarosa]

I can't help but bold red:

“Who’s feeling lucky?”

That's a great line in any situation.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

How well did OJ's "If I did it" book do?

The publisher of If I Did It: Confessions of a Killer, O.J. Simpson's hypothetical account of his ex-wife's slaying, says the book has hit No. 2 on the New York Times bestseller list for non-fiction

O.J.'s If I Did It reaches bestseller status - Arts & Entertainment - CBC News

Ha! Well then of GZ writes a book perhaps someone will profit from it

Alas, I believe in the case of OJ, all profits were awarded to the families of the dead.

By terms of the civil suit, OJ had to give the profits to the family. I guess the Martinez family could also file a civil wrongful death suit. But, I'd doubt they'd win that either.

 

[25Caliber]

Translation: I've lost this round.
You cannot argue against what I posted without looking like a fool You cannot agree with what I posted without looking like a fool. So you dismiss the post.

Back on ignore...you are one rude and bitter person...others can look at the posts proving you wrong and decide for themselves...have a great day.

Translation: Damn I look stupid.
Yes, you do look stupid. You think a report of what someone said has more credibility than what someone actually said. I guess you never played telephone as a kid.
So to review: Zimmerman did not lie about Trayvon grabbing the gun. His testimony has not only been consistent but is also not contradicted by the DNA evidence. With some allowance for variance, given the horrific situation he found himself in and the adrenaline rush he must have had, Zimmerman has been a very good and consistent player. Like many of us in the gun community he undoubtedly practiced for a day like this. He was aware of all the rules and knew what to say.
The prosecution has failed so far to disprove his assertion of self defense. They would have to show that a reasonable person was not in fear of his life when he shot. Instead they are farting around trying to push a narrative of a wannabe cop that was discredited weeks ago. The prosecution will fail. Zimmerman will go fee.

Yeah...I do...when the person is his best friend testifying under oath...are you saying that he would lie in his best friends murder trial. its the defenses job to refute it...they did not. I guess GZ could take the stand and deny it...then it will be up to the jury who they believe...but the best friend who was otherwise a great witness for GZ will be awfully credible to the jury. Its simple really...he gave two stories...one to his best friend and one to the cops. Its really not that hard to understand.

No I dont believe everything GZ says and if you do more power to you. You might as well take your vacation, because your job is done here...nothing more to see or look at it...GZs word is golden...go on vacation what more is there for you to do? I think your naive and simplistic and gullable.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

uhhh, the OJ trial, circumstantial evidence proved him the murderer, but a racist jury set him free.

OJ denied being the killer. DNA evidence is very helpful when the killer is unknown or the defendant denies being the killer. That is not the case here where the killer is known and admitted.

The killer is known but he is telling stories that just don't add up. DNA is good evidence regardless, so is the autopsy report coming soon.. Tomorrow.

The idiot keeps getting caught in his own lies. Bet Sean Hannity is sorry for asking GZ if he had ever heard of "stand your ground" before he murdered Martin. And, GZ said he had to fight Martin for the his gun AND that Martin had beat him severely and yet, no Martin DNA on his gun or him. No GZ DNA on Martin's hands (that GZ says hit him repeatedly).

And, he should be charged with stalking because that's what he did. Martin tried to run away from him but GZ stalked and hunted him down.

The head investigator (don't remember his name) stated he wanted to charge GZ.

Anybody who says race doesn't enter into this is naive or stupid. If it were the other way around, the black guy would already be in jail.

 

[Snookie]

I notice that whenever Z talks it is in a robotic monotone voice, almost like a recording.

I think most of his testimony is contrived.

The dude is a pathological liar.

 

[testarosa]

I'm going to recreate my avvy!

Happy 4th!!

 

[pioneerpete]

OJ denied being the killer. DNA evidence is very helpful when the killer is unknown or the defendant denies being the killer. That is not the case here where the killer is known and admitted.

The killer is known but he is telling stories that just don't add up. DNA is good evidence regardless, so is the autopsy report coming soon.. Tomorrow.

The idiot keeps getting caught in his own lies. Bet Sean Hannity is sorry for asking GZ if he had ever heard of "stand your ground" before he murdered Martin. And, GZ said he had to fight Martin for the his gun AND that Martin had beat him severely and yet, no Martin DNA on his gun or him. No GZ DNA on Martin's hands (that GZ says hit him repeatedly).

And, he should be charged with stalking because that's what he did. Martin tried to run away from him but GZ stalked and hunted him down.

The head investigator (don't remember his name) stated he wanted to charge GZ.

Anybody who says race doesn't enter into this is naive or stupid. If it were the other way around, the black guy would already be in jail.

The lead investigator also said this:
Law of Self Defense ? Zimmerman Trial: Evidentiary Flashback: Investigator Serino Tells FBI He Was Pressured to Bring Charges