The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Oldstyle]

Come on Sallow, are you really listening to this trial? Or are you gleaning your "information" from biased web sites?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What is being ignored is that Martin had every right to be walking back from the store, every right to be where he was.

Incorrect, TM had no "right" to trespass on private property.

Though I do agree that TM trespassing through private property is being ignored.

Gotta say, I haven't heard this one before.

So, if you go to see a family member, its okay to shoot you because you're on "private property"?

Even if someone was dumb enough to try to use this as a defense, its hardly a crime punishable by murder.

He was invited to be there and minding his own business. He was not trespassing.

Creative but stupid.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's the fault of a gun-toting stupid man.

Sure, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And those who do are either vicious, crazy or stupid. So since they can't control themselves, we have to make them as least dangerous as possible, ergo gun control. Zimmerman disqualified himself from gun ownership from his previous record:

Last edited Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:48 AM USA/ET – Edit history (2)
From the Orange County, FL Circuit Court Clerk of the Court Records page: [link to myclerk.myorangeclerk.com]
Record Count: 4
Search By: Party Exact Name: on Party Search Mode:

Name Last Name: Zimmerman First Name: George

Case Status: Closed Date Filed On or After: 01/01/2005 Date Filed On or Before: 01/01/2006 Sort By: Filed Date
Case Number Citation Number Style/Defendant Info Filed/Location/Judicial Officer Type/Status Charge(s)
2005-CF-009525-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983

07/18/2005
Div 10
OKane, Julie H

Criminal Felony
Closed

CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE
BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
2005-MM-010436-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983

07/18/2005
Orlando
Miller, W Michael

Misdemeanor
Closed

CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE
2005-DR-012980-O

ZUAZO, VERONICA vs. ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M

08/09/2005
Div 44
44, TBA

Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS

2005-DR-013069-O

ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M vs. ZUAZO, VERONICA A

08/10/2005
Div 46
White, Keith F

Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS

Nice report. Show me felony convictions.

His dad's a retired judge, toots. Any other incredibly naive questions?

His father is a retired "Magistrate" from Virginia. You might want to look up what a Magistrate does in Virginia before you walk too far out on the limb you're on, NoTea. It isn't the same thing as a judge, it's essentially the same as a Justice of the Peace.

 

[The Professor]

I have repeatedly informed members of this forum that I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so please forgive me if my response is less than brilliant. Having said that, I question how DNA would be found under Martin's fingernails if he was beating Zimmerman with his fist as alleged.

My limited knowledge suggests that DNA under the fingernails is consistent with defensive scratching and grabbing, not with pummeling someone. I don't know about anyone else, but on those rare occasions when I hit someone (there was that one little incident with the Jehovah’s witnesses, but I digress), my fist is clenched and there is no way his DNA is going to end up under my fingernails. If any DNA were to be found, it would have been on Martins split knuckles but I am not aware of any such tests being performed.

It appears to me that those who place so much emphasis on the lack of DNA are suggesting that Martin never touched Zimmerman. That means the only logical alternatives are that Zimmerman was attacked by someone else or his wounds were self inflicted. I am not buying into such nonsense. But then again, most of you are a hell of a lot smarter than I am.

To all of you a happy 4th of July. I submit the following song because it was the first song I sang as a member of my junior high school chorus almost fifty years ago. There was a time when the words were indeed significant.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ3jPMM5Ac](HQ) Best Version of "Battle Hymn of the Republic" EVER! Mormon Tabernacle Choir + Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Missourian]

You are close, but confusing elements of the two types of crime we are discussing. Murder requires intent; manslaughter does not. And intent is not an issue in this case, as Zimmerman intended to kill Martin. Zimmerman's argument essentially admits that his intent is consistent with the statutory requirements for murder 2.

Yeah I have no doubt that if the jury rules him not guilty of murder two that he's also not guilty of voluntary manslaughter. My question is to the lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter due to negligence. IOW does self-defense excuse negligence in a homicide.

I guess I'm just having a hard time explaining this. Involuntary manslaughter, by its very definition, is the unintentional killing of a human being. The State can't argue that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were both intentional and not intentional at the same time.

For a good summary of these issues, this Florida attorney has a distilled version here: Jacksonville Manslaughter Lawyer | Florida Aggravated Manslaughter Attorneys | Self Defense Law Firm

Maybe because he had already taken one:



Zimmerman passed lie detector test ? USATODAY.com

It awas not a lie detector test but a stress analysis test which is not as reliable. He was asked two questions that could have been construed in more than one way.

He was asked did he confront TM. Confront could be construed different ways. Were you in fear of your life? Yes said Z.

I am not surprised at that. He's a freaking coward pussy.

If he failed it would you be beating this drum?

Just asking.

They won't be honest...

...but the truth is had he failed, they'd be screaming it from the rooftops.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yeah I have no doubt that if the jury rules him not guilty of murder two that he's also not guilty of voluntary manslaughter. My question is to the lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter due to negligence. IOW does self-defense excuse negligence in a homicide.

I guess I'm just having a hard time explaining this. Involuntary manslaughter, by its very definition, is the unintentional killing of a human being. The State can't argue that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were both intentional and not intentional at the same time.

For a good summary of these issues, this Florida attorney has a distilled version here: Jacksonville Manslaughter Lawyer | Florida Aggravated Manslaughter Attorneys | Self Defense Law Firm

It awas not a lie detector test but a stress analysis test which is not as reliable. He was asked two questions that could have been construed in more than one way.

He was asked did he confront TM. Confront could be construed different ways. Were you in fear of your life? Yes said Z.

I am not surprised at that. He's a freaking coward pussy.

If he failed it would you be beating this drum?

Just asking.

They won't be honest...

...but the truth is had he failed, they'd be screaming it from the rooftops.

I think you're spot on with this. I still don't know whether Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, nor do they, so I'm not about to draw any hard fast conclusions. But the proponderance of the evidence reported so far supports Zimmerman's account more than it supports that being fabricated by the assembled hanging judges here. And the prosecution has certainly done little to nothing to make the proponderance of the evidence look any different to me.

 

[Snookie]

I guess I'm just having a hard time explaining this. Involuntary manslaughter, by its very definition, is the unintentional killing of a human being. The State can't argue that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were both intentional and not intentional at the same time.

For a good summary of these issues, this Florida attorney has a distilled version here: Jacksonville Manslaughter Lawyer | Florida Aggravated Manslaughter Attorneys | Self Defense Law Firm

If he failed it would you be beating this drum?

Just asking.

They won't be honest...

...but the truth is had he failed, they'd be screaming it from the rooftops.

I think you're spot on with this. I still don't know whether Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, nor do they, so I'm not about to draw any hard fast conclusions. But the proponderance of the evidence reported so far supports Zimmerman's account more than it supports that being fabricated by the assembled hanging judges here. And the prosecution has certainly done little to nothing to make the proponderance of the evidence look any different to me.

Do you believe Dee Dee's testimony?

 

[Sunshine]

Maybe because he had already taken one:



Zimmerman passed lie detector test ? USATODAY.com

It awas not a lie detector test but a stress anllines test which is not as reliable. He was asked two questions that could have been construed in more than one way.

[MENTION=21954]Sunshine[/MENTION]....I have to ask. Did you know you were telling a lie or are you just ignorant and honestly didnt know about the lie detector?

"The report says that when the dispatcher asked him if he was following Trayvon, Zimmerman said, "Yes."

But he gave a different answer in his first recorded statement, he said he told the dispatcher, "I don't know. I don't know where he went."


His story is just full of shit. All of it.

Negged!

 

[Sunshine]

Passing the phone around to my real life friends to read the thread.

I had no idea we were this entertaining.

You tell your friends IRL that you come here? Wow.

 

[Sunshine]

been indicted by a citizens’ grand jury

Absolutely no legal standing.

Where did I say it has? I post this to point up the fact that a lot of people are already pissed at the way this whole thing has gone down. Don't think for a minute that if any of this is true, she will not have a Bar complaint filed on her.

 

[birddog]

I'm not deranged, and I disagree. Martin was not a "kid," but was a young man bigger and stronger than Zimmerman. Zimmerman acted in self defense to an aggressive racist Martin who had a history of crime.

Zimmerman will be acquitted, and rightfully so.

His 17th birthday was 21 days before he died. He was a 16 yr. old kid. See, this kind of excusing the murderer that's going on here makes you all seem foolhardy. It's redneck speak, like you have no sense.

No offense, but I'm trying to reason this out. Small point, but if he turned 17 three weeks before he died, wouldn't that make him 17? Many young, strong men at that age died in combat in our wars by the way.

Shooting someone in self-defense does not make anyone a murderer! By the way, if Martin had been white and Zimmerman black, this would not have had near the publicity, plus Zimmerman would still have been acquitted. Race has nothing to do with the incident, other than that Martin had an aggressive attitude like he was being disrespected, and initiated the physical action.

 

[Missourian]

They won't be honest...

...but the truth is had he failed, they'd be screaming it from the rooftops.

I think you're spot on with this. I still don't know whether Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, nor do they, so I'm not about to draw any hard fast conclusions. But the proponderance of the evidence reported so far supports Zimmerman's account more than it supports that being fabricated by the assembled hanging judges here. And the prosecution has certainly done little to nothing to make the proponderance of the evidence look any different to me.

Do you believe Dee Dee's testimony?

Irrelevant.

Just admit your bias and be done with it.

If Zimmerman had failed the test...it would suddenly be the #1 most important piece of evidence, you'd post it in your sig line.

But because he passed, you find every excuse to dismiss it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Come on Sallow, are you really listening to this trial? Or are you gleaning your "information" from biased web sites?

Like the small calibre fool, he has to filter out any information that doesn't match up with the narrative that the media has already emplaced in his brain.
So their narrative is: Zimmerman is a white racist cop wannabe who is outraged a black man is in his neighborhood. So he packs his gun and flashlight and chases after him. Trayvon sees him and asks him what the problem is and Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots Trayvon.
Trust me, in their minds this is how it happened.
So as these "facts" are disproved one by one they can repeat the same stuff because to them the scenario I laid out is reality. Anything else must be someone lying.

 

[Foxfyre]

They won't be honest...

...but the truth is had he failed, they'd be screaming it from the rooftops.

I think you're spot on with this. I still don't know whether Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, nor do they, so I'm not about to draw any hard fast conclusions. But the proponderance of the evidence reported so far supports Zimmerman's account more than it supports that being fabricated by the assembled hanging judges here. And the prosecution has certainly done little to nothing to make the proponderance of the evidence look any different to me.

Do you believe Dee Dee's testimony?

For what it was I did not draw any conclusions about what was authentic and what she may have made up or embellished. She was on the phone with Trayvon. I wasn't. I have taken hundreds of depositions from people and very few remember every detail exactly as it went down. Eye witnesses can be notoriously unreliable about details they think they remember.

But whether embellished, totally made up, or remembered accurately, I did not think her testimony did anything other than strengthen Zimmerman's recollections as reported to the police after the shooting.

 

[eflatminor]

It awas not a lie detector test but a stress analysis test which is not as reliable. He was asked two questions that could have been construed in more than one way.

He was asked did he confront TM. Confront could be construed different ways. Were you in fear of your life? Yes said Z.

I am not surprised at that. He's a freaking coward pussy.

If he failed it would you be beating this drum?

Just asking.

No because he is guilty of murder.

The stupid runs DEEP with this one.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's the fault of a gun-toting stupid man.

Sure, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And those who do are either vicious, crazy or stupid. So since they can't control themselves, we have to make them as least dangerous as possible, ergo gun control. Zimmerman disqualified himself from gun ownership from his previous record:

Last edited Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:48 AM USA/ET – Edit history (2)
From the Orange County, FL Circuit Court Clerk of the Court Records page: [link to myclerk.myorangeclerk.com]
Record Count: 4
Search By: Party Exact Name: on Party Search Mode:

Name Last Name: Zimmerman First Name: George

Case Status: Closed Date Filed On or After: 01/01/2005 Date Filed On or Before: 01/01/2006 Sort By: Filed Date
Case Number Citation Number Style/Defendant Info Filed/Location/Judicial Officer Type/Status Charge(s)
2005-CF-009525-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983

07/18/2005
Div 10
OKane, Julie H

Criminal Felony
Closed

CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE
BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
2005-MM-010436-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983

07/18/2005
Orlando
Miller, W Michael

Misdemeanor
Closed

CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE
2005-DR-012980-O

ZUAZO, VERONICA vs. ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M

08/09/2005
Div 44
44, TBA

Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS

2005-DR-013069-O

ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M vs. ZUAZO, VERONICA A

08/10/2005
Div 46
White, Keith F

Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS

Nice report. Show me felony convictions.

His dad's a retired judge, toots. Any other incredibly naive questions?

Is there an exemption in the law for children of retired judges? I want to see it.

 

[The Rabbi]

His father is a retired "Magistrate" from Virginia. You might want to look up what a Magistrate does in Virginia before you walk too far out on the limb you're on, NoTea. It isn't the same thing as a judge, it's essentially the same as a Justice of the Peace.

If Zimmerman were illegally carrying a gun he would have been charged with that as well. The fact that he wasn't says he is legal.
Another crap pile from the brain dead left.

 

[testarosa]

Passing the phone around to my real life friends to read the thread.

I had no idea we were this entertaining.

You tell your friends IRL that you come here? Wow.

Lol. They obviously already know that I'm a pain in the ass, getting their drama chuckle thread fix. My phone is more entertainment than dolphin sightings.

 

[testarosa]

I think you're spot on with this. I still don't know whether Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, nor do they, so I'm not about to draw any hard fast conclusions. But the proponderance of the evidence reported so far supports Zimmerman's account more than it supports that being fabricated by the assembled hanging judges here. And the prosecution has certainly done little to nothing to make the proponderance of the evidence look any different to me.

Do you believe Dee Dee's testimony?

For what it was I did not draw any conclusions about what was authentic and what she may have made up or embellished. She was on the phone with Trayvon. I wasn't. I have taken hundreds of depositions from people and very few remember every detail exactly as it went down. Eye witnesses can be notoriously unreliable about details they think they remember.

But whether embellished, totally made up, or remembered accurately, I did not think her testimony did anything other than strengthen Zimmerman's recollections as reported to the police after the shooting.

And she'll be back...Crump in tow.

Do you know how to depo in Ebonics? Another translator on the thread is golden.

 

[TheSeventhTiger]

Seventhtiger the fact that's a reality tells me WHO THE REAL RACIST ARE. This is why I feel the way I do about them....

What's justice to these idiots? One sided on their side period.

regarding "who the real racists are"? just watch MSNBC from 5-11pm.