The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[RKMBrown]

Maybe...just maybe...GZ could have instead been screaming "Im Neighborhood watch and the cops are on the way"...even in the struggle he wont identify himself. I know I would have...thats the first thing that would come to mind if im getting my ass beat.

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

Daggone it, cowboy!

I think you're all logical and then you say something like this:

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop.

That makes zero sense and ends up in psychobabble land.

Yeah that might not be read by you the way I intended.

At that point of the fight what do you think was more important in GZ's mind... to make sure the teen was caught and brought to justice or to get away? I don't believe GZ did anything to get away. I think he wanted to "apprehend" I think he wanted someone to help him "apprehend" I don't think he wanted someone to make the kid stop. If he wanted the kid to stop GZ would have tried to get away.

I've got this nagging feeling that TM may have actually been starting to leave and that's when GZ freaked out tried to hold him then shot him. Remember GZ's testimony that he "pinned TM's hand under his arm?" That is consistent with trying to hold onto him so he could not get away.

 

[ScienceRocks]

So we're suppose to allow blacks to commit crimes? Is this what you want???

I AM NOT talking about anyone having it out for anyone. I do not believe Zimmerman is racist against anyone.

Skin color shouldn't matter.

 

[KissMy]

The prosecution has no consistent theory, they have just been throwing everything against the wall hoping something would stick. But nothing stuck & the prosecution did not come close to proving any beyond a reasonable doubt. Now they claim that GZ could not get to his gun because TM was on top. How absurd & counter to their witness statements! Then people are saying that GZ had gun drawn as he approached TM. Even more absurd!

So now we are supposed to believe that GZ pulled his gun then TM attacked & said "get off, get off" instead of GUN! Then GZ keeps a hold of this gun as he gets his ass beat to hell during the huge fight follows with TM yelling HELP instead of GUN? And during this huge fight no witness heard "gun" or saw a gun? And during the entire fight over the gun in GZ's hand as he approached none of TM's DNA or prints got on it?

Do they even comprehend how stupid that idea is?

 

[Sunshine]

The whole notion that Zimmerman "stalked" Trayvon Martin with the intent of using his gun flies right out the window when you actually look at the situation.

Zimmerman doesn't draw his weapon until he fears that the man who is atop him and has been beating him without letup has noticed his gun and is trying to get it. Only then...does Zimmerman elect to use the weapon.

But more importantly...if Trayvon Martin REALLY is frightened by the "creepy assed Cracker" that followed him...what possible reason would he have to leave the safety of the condo he was staying at...a condo that he could have very easily called the police himself to report the "stalking"...and walk back up the hundred yards plus to get to where Zimmerman is returning to his SUV? And if he DID do that simply to see if the man was still there (your claim that I'm sorry to say that I find to be almost laughable, 25) why wouldn't he let the man continue on his way? Why would he step out of the darkness and ask "You got a problem?"...an opening salvo that anyone who's ever been in a fight recognizes as threatening.

I agree...I dont think he was out to kill anyone...hes not that type of person. He was a concerned citizen who made some mistakes.

He and trayvon both have their own responsibility for what happened that night. Trayvon paid the ultimate price and GZ needs to pay with some time in jail, IMO. Will that happen to GZ? As it looks now...i dont think so.

What mistake would warrant jail time for Zimmerman? Or are you just trying to be "fair"?

Voluntary manslaughter is not a minor offense:

Penalties and Sentences In general, Florida prosecutes manslaughter as a second degree felony, which may result in a term of imprisonment for up to fifteen years, a fine of an amount up to $10,000, or both. If the defendant committed aggravated manslaughter, such as manslaughter of a child or elderly person, state law treats the offense as a first degree felony, which increases the potential term of imprisonment to a maximum of thirty years. Florida laws also allow the state to consider the defendant's criminal history and determine whether the defendant is a career criminal or habitual violent offender; if so, the state may be able to increase the defendant's punishment. - See more at: Florida Voluntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw

Florida Voluntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw

Today's victory was minor, and could indeed be a Pyrrhic victory in the long run. George is still in very serious trouble.

 

[Jackson]

What happens if 90% of criminals and gangs are black? Somehow within your mind we should arrest(report) innocent people of other races to make it seem like it isn't so.

What kind of country do you people want? I don't want blacks being mistreated or wronged but for us not to realize reality is also very wrong.

No Matthew, just as I wrote to you in your reply, I am a supporter of common sense, not of crime. Let's prosecute those who are actually committing the crimes regardless of their color.

If the gangs are 90% black, Hispanic or white...charge them arrest them prosecute them, give them a fair trial, and, if guilty put them away. I don't want to hear about how many of each color are in jail. They had their time in court and deserve to be there.


But let's don't jump the gun and accuse someone because of their color. Could this have happened in this case> We don't know. We cannot hear TM's side.

 

[Sallow]

I agree...I dont think he was out to kill anyone...hes not that type of person. He was a concerned citizen who made some mistakes.

He and trayvon both have their own responsibility for what happened that night. Trayvon paid the ultimate price and GZ needs to pay with some time in jail, IMO. Will that happen to GZ? As it looks now...i dont think so.

That may not even be right.

Zimmerman was pretty cold after the killing. Previously, he's expressed a desire to "hunt for fugitives". He called Trayvon's killing, "God's plan" and he called him a "suspect".

I just dont believe that you head out for target and groceries and then switch into a hunting murderer. I dont think GZ even had it in him. Plus, I dont think you set out to kill and then call 911 and have the cops on the way before you do it.

I just think you have to be careful when you go following people in the night...even if you have good intentions. The cops were on the way....and then the cat goes after on foot.

Some say Tray came to him...okay well who has been coming to tray in the dark and night previous to that?

That's not all.

He beat up his fiancée and got into a fight with a cop.

Both times he got off.

This seems to be the next logical step.

 

[RKMBrown]

You're making the argument for me there. "Stop attacking you" is continued aggression. Which would be precisely why a person would have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused, in part, the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

Stupid rule? Suicidal rule? Maybe... What we have is a society that simultaneously pushes for ZERO tolerance, but somehow 100% tolerance is expected in cases of self defense.

IMO there needs to be some sort of civil code where escalating a fight from fist to weapons is seen as an escalation. You appear to argue the busted nose and scratches and accusation of strangulation are evidence that he had to kill him.. but the nose was minor, the scratches, minor and the strangulation has no proof.

That is the dumbest statement I have ever read on a forum. DUMBrown, ALL the rules are written down. They are called laws.

What part of my statement about unwritten rules confused you?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Most of them implicated black people, Templar.

You have no proof of this, Jackson. Stop running your mouth.

George Zimmerman’s relevant past

Meanwhile, over the course of eight years, Zimmerman made at least 46 calls to the Sanford (Fla.) Police Department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

George Zimmerman?s relevant past

It took you 45 minutes to come up with this? A blog? Just because a blog says it's relevant does not make it relevant. Do you understand me?

 

[Sunshine]

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused, in part, the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

Stupid rule? Suicidal rule? Maybe... What we have is a society that simultaneously pushes for ZERO tolerance, but somehow 100% tolerance is expected in cases of self defense.

IMO there needs to be some sort of civil code where escalating a fight from fist to weapons is seen as an escalation. You appear to argue the busted nose and scratches and accusation of strangulation are evidence that he had to kill him.. but the nose was minor, the scratches, minor and the strangulation has no proof.

That is the dumbest statement I have ever read on a forum. DUMBrown, ALL the rules are written down. They are called laws.

What part of my statement about unwritten rules confused you?

I am not the one who is confused.

 

[testarosa]

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

You're making the argument for me there. "Stop attacking you" is continued aggression. Which would be precisely why a person would have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused, in part, the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

Stupid rule? Suicidal rule? Maybe... What we have is a society that simultaneously pushes for ZERO tolerance, but somehow 100% tolerance is expected in cases of self defense.

IMO there needs to be some sort of civil code where escalating a fight from fist to weapons is seen as an escalation. You appear to argue the busted nose and scratches and accusation of strangulation are evidence that he had to kill him.. but the nose was minor, the scratches, minor and the strangulation has no proof.

I see the communication problem here.

Many people on this thread are sifting through, talking about the evidence and the law and what's going on day to day in the trial and what comes out. And then there's the imagining, scratches, put yourself in shoes you've never been in, who did what at what minute and which bad thing they did, then there's the lingering media race fanatics.

Big communication gap.

The red above is a great statement other than the negligence part, but it doesn't deter from the evidence so far and the law.

The jury is hearing the evidence and the jury will be instructed on the law.
So that is my primary focus. The time (for me) for who did what did how you did race bullshit has been over for awhile. It's evidence and trial time.

 

[Sarah G]

This is total bull shit. He has to have a REASONABLE belief that his life is in imminent danger or great bodily harm. A REAONBLE BELIEF. He doesn't just get to decide, if someone punches him in the nose or knocks him down, that his life is in imminent danger so he gets to use deadly force.

You contradicted yourself.

And yes he does get to decide even without getting punched in the nose or knocked to the ground.

YOU don't get to decide for him how he felt.

He can say his life was in danger but that doesn't automatically equate to him walking free because he felt that way. They still have to prove their case, not just say oh he felt threatened so he shot the kid, don't we all feel sorry for this jerk?

I feel like I'm hearing a lot of excuses for that bad decision that day. This isn't the old West.

 

[Ernie S.]

Bu....bu.....bu....li'l Trayvon's mother know huh li'l chile....huh li'l angel..

Did she actually imply that Trayvon was an angel? If she did, it opens a huge can of worms.

She did. And they showed the tweet on CNN. You got an extra fishing pole?

Fulton posted on Twitter Friday, saying “I pray that God give me the strength to properly represent my angel Trayvon.”

Trayvon Martin?s Mother Takes Stand, Tweets Prayer For Strength To ?Properly Represent? Son « CBS Tampa

Is the tweet in evidence or did she actually say that he was an angel on the stand?

 

[Gracie]

Ok...so the tape is played yet again, and the lady on the phone said she heard a shot after the please for help. AFTER the shot, a clearer yell is heard. That cannot be Martin, can it? I'm wondering if it was Zimmerman with one final yell at the horror of shooting this guy after a struggle? Who doesn't yell after doing such a thing? Zimmerman doesn't look like the kind of guy that would jump for joy. He looks and acts like a guy that is screaming at the shock of all that just transpired.
Unless it IS martin screaming, but he sure has strength in his lungs after getting shot thru the heart.

 

[Jackson]

If Zimmerman really did have it out for blacks as would be implied by him making 50 calls to the police complaining about them, that would matter. If he approached Martin with racial malice, then that could factor into the determination of his intent, which has long been taken into consideration in our society's courts.

Marc has been making stuff up about Zimmerman. I haven't been paying too close of attention to what all he has been saying, but that leapt out at me and serves as a symbol for Marc's disregard of the facts of this case and his willingness to believe anything bad about Zimmerman no matter how little truth there is in it.

Amelia, it has been stated before that most of the calls were on black males. Profiling isn't all that bad. It only makes sense when a rash of burglaries in the past have been done by black males and one should be on the look out for SUSPICIOUS people, and a little old lady would not be one, right?

However, where I have my problem, is that a black male cannot be merely walking by, but something more added to actually be suspicious and leading me to follow them. There were black people living in those homes, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to see someone just walking by. But seeing one looking in a window would be something else. Do you see what I mean?

If that was stated before, then it was wrong before.

Most of his calls were not about blacks.

Links have been posted to lists detailing the calls -- not just some blogger's perception about what they add up to.

And in those detailed lists, the figure I remember mentioning blacks is 7.

I know for sure it was less than 10.

Thank you for the correction, that this was a blogger reporting. Appreciated.

 

[R.D.]

Unwritten rules for civilized men when they fight?

That's a Cage Match fool!

 

[Sunshine]

Did she actually imply that Trayvon was an angel? If she did, it opens a huge can of worms.

She did. And they showed the tweet on CNN. You got an extra fishing pole?

Fulton posted on Twitter Friday, saying “I pray that God give me the strength to properly represent my angel Trayvon.”

Trayvon Martin?s Mother Takes Stand, Tweets Prayer For Strength To ?Properly Represent? Son « CBS Tampa

Is the tweet in evidence or did she actually say that he was an angel on the stand?

The tweet went out this morning before she was put on the stand. She did not say it on the stand.

On the stand she claimed to have a Bachelor's in English. But she said, 'They was.......'

 

[Jackson]

You have no proof of this, Jackson. Stop running your mouth.

George Zimmerman’s relevant past

Meanwhile, over the course of eight years, Zimmerman made at least 46 calls to the Sanford (Fla.) Police Department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

George Zimmerman?s relevant past

It took you 45 minutes to come up with this? A blog? Just because a blog says it's relevant does not make it relevant. Do you understand me?

Just as you, a member of a messageboard is not always right either, my friend.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What happens if 90% of criminals and gangs are black? Somehow within your mind we should arrest(report) innocent people of other races to make it seem like it isn't so.

What kind of country do you people want? I don't want blacks being mistreated or wronged but for us not to realize reality is also very wrong.

No Matthew, just as I wrote to you in your reply, I am a supporter of common sense, not of crime. Let's prosecute those who are actually committing the crimes regardless of their color.

If the gangs are 90% black, Hispanic or white...charge them arrest them prosecute them, give them a fair trial, and, if guilty put them away. I don't want to hear about how many of each color are in jail. They had their time in court and deserve to be there.


But let's don't jump the gun and accuse someone because of their color. Could this have happened in this case> We don't know. We cannot hear TM's side.

Then common sense would tell you not to rush to conclusions, wouldn't it? But here you are concluding that Zimmerman belongs in jail for killing someone. What you fail to understand is how Zimmerman should not even be standing trial at all. He acted in self defense, there was not an iota of malice, ill-will, or spite in Zimmerman's body, just fear.

 

[Sunshine]

Unwritten rules for civilized men when they fight?

That's a Cage Match fool!

The rules are written down. They are called laws.

 

[JQPublic1]

I got no reason to question her intellect. What I question is her ability to tell the truth.

Then why not apply those same parameters to Zimmeran since he is a known liar and cheat?

Just an FYI, I know people who have IQs in the 60s who can speak multiple languages, only an idiot would argue that language ability and intelligence are connected. Or should I be asking you how many languages you can understand?

I seriously doubt that you know "people" with a 60 IQ that can speak multiple languages. Idiot Savants can do some stunning mental acrobatics with numbers and dates but they are rare individuals; and, I have never heard of one speaking multiple languages, let alone with any fluency!