The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Snookie]

What does that mean to society that we can have dirt bags with no honor running around looking for people to kill as long as they call 911 first and get the guy to hit them. (Rope a-Dope my contention from the start of the thread...

See...sometimes you seem so logical, then you come out with a ridiculous statement like this nonsense.

Do you honestly believe GZ is a dirtbag with no honor running around looking for people to kill? And that he goaded TM to hit him so he could claim self-defense even though his real intention was to find someone, anyone I suppose, to kill? Say you were just trying to be provocative, please.

That is just crazy talk! Completely unfounded, unproven, and unsuggested - even by the prosecution.

My opinion of george is that he is a loose cannon, an accident waiting to happen.

He was on mind altering meds at the time. They should have used that as a defense and then sued the drug company$

 

[Jackson]

I am right. Multiple posters on this thread either agree with me, or hold the same opinion I do on this case. I have been following this trial from the beginning. You have already indicated your support of the "silent victim".

Just because multiple posters believe you, doesn't make you right. And as how I would vote if I were on a jury, don't be so sure. I haven't heard all of the evidence and what I heard from the prosecution did not sway me in their direction at all. I can't believe the prosecutions own witness, Jeantel (sp?), and the mother is, well, a mother.

I know Murder2 is out and FWIW, I would have to know the details of manslaughter or let him go, if I felt he was fighting for his life. I don't like the idea that he gained 110 lbs to look like an overweight old man who couldn't fight back; I'm wondering how he could get his gun out when TM was on top of him but maybe he could; wouldn't TM have more bruises and cuts on his hands if he really hit him more that once?

The defense is good and they might sway me in thinking this really was a life and death situation. But then again...who really started it by following in the first place when the kid wasn't acting suspicious. That's the rub.

Again, who says he wasn't acting suspicious? No one can say that he wasn't because there is simply no evidence that he wasn't acting suspicious. Take out his (TM) past actions. This is obviously a town where crime is prevalent. You can't really make an accurate opinion if say you live in the Nashville suburbs of Franklin or Brentwood as to what you would see suspicious compared to someone who lives next to the bus stop in downtown Nashville.

I understand what you are saying, but unless the Zimmerman can get on the stand and tell us what made TM suspicious, we just won't know, will we? If Z can do that, all doubt is released from my mind. Z was doing what he was supposed to be doing and got caught in a pickle. Acquit.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why is walking up to someone to ask a question=a crime?

I've had a black man ask me what I was doing. I was walking back from 7-11 as I normally do late at night.

Nothing wrong with it

Change that to a black man following you in a truck for ten minutes then getting out of a truck to follow you. Tell me that wouldn't bring up a red flag.

Come again? Is that objectiveness of yours just a facade?

 

[RKMBrown]

What does that mean to society that we can have dirt bags with no honor running around looking for people to kill as long as they call 911 first and get the guy to hit them. (Rope a-Dope my contention from the start of the thread...

See...sometimes you seem so logical, then you come out with a ridiculous statement like this nonsense.

Do you honestly believe GZ is a dirtbag with no honor running around looking for people to kill? And that he goaded TM to hit him so he could claim self-defense even though his real intention was to find someone, anyone I suppose, to kill? Say you were just trying to be provocative, please.

That is just crazy talk! Completely unfounded, unproven, and unsuggested - even by the prosecution.

Yep

Sorry you guys missed my earlier post. My point here is not that GZ is a dirt bag.. My bad. My point raised earlier is that if GZ can do this why not anyone else? For that matter why not TM? As was pointed out earlier the only reason we have GZ on trial and not TM is cause TM did not shoot GZ in self defense. If TM had that gun he was talking about getting, he may have shot GZ in the chest. Then we'd be talking about whether or not TM did it in self defense. Same circumstances different players, same arguments? Or does the argument change when the guy who'd claim self defense is a person we assume is a good guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the bad guy. Or does the argument change when the guy who's claiming self defense is a person we assume is a bad guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the good guy?

 

[Jackson]

I am right. Multiple posters on this thread either agree with me, or hold the same opinion I do on this case. I have been following this trial from the beginning. You have already indicated your support of the "silent victim".

Just because multiple posters believe you, doesn't make you right. And as how I would vote if I were on a jury, don't be so sure. I haven't heard all of the evidence and what I heard from the prosecution did not sway me in their direction at all. I can't believe the prosecutions own witness, Jeantel (sp?), and the mother is, well, a mother.

I know Murder2 is out and FWIW, I would have to know the details of manslaughter or let him go, if I felt he was fighting for his life. I don't like the idea that he gained 110 lbs to look like an overweight old man who couldn't fight back; I'm wondering how he could get his gun out when TM was on top of him but maybe he could; wouldn't TM have more bruises and cuts on his hands if he really hit him more that once?

The defense is good and they might sway me in thinking this really was a life and death situation. But then again...who really started it by following in the first place when the kid wasn't acting suspicious. That's the rub.

One of these posters, (and I won't name names) was a private detective for over three decades, he has done work for many defense attorneys in his career, and he happens to be from my home state. Suffice it to say he has prior experience in this field. So the fact he and I agree on most of the same things on this case should tell you something, Jackson.

I could tell you three posters are from the CIA and agree with me. (I call, and raise you 2)

 

[Snookie]

I would argue that we have become an overly litigious nation that appears to have no honor in the yes of many.

IMO the portions of laws that are based on "fear," such as zero tolerance law, this portion of the self defense law, the unpatriot act, etc. are heading away from reason, heading away from liberty, heading away from honor.

Fear is the mind killer...

We are an overly litigious nation. That is a different thread and a different subject. And honor is a great thing, but we aren't talking about that here. This is a single event that everyone hung their hat on.

You know about everything that's happened since this began, correct? So you're going on a foundation of full knowledge, I'm going to assume that.

I cannot even believe I'm going to do this. I'm going gray unicorns.

Where do you draw that line in the law and in the sand?

You can't do it for one and not for another, it's all or none.

It is the world we live in.

You saw the video @Missourian posted a couple pages back. Shoot - self defense?

Self defense?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYl6vrzza78"]Georgia Mom Shoots Intruder 5 times! (911 Call) 1/10/13 - YouTube[/ame]

Burglary suspect flees after 84-year-old home owner confronts him with gun, shoots at getaway car

self defense?

Deputies: Robber shot by homeowner in Pompano Beach - Broward - MiamiHerald.com

This is what we are up against...

Huffington Post headline for the Georgia Mom story...


Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

What we are up against is freedom of speech.

 

[testarosa]

Testarosa, these are completely different types of cases.

The case we are talking about is a case where two young men confronted each other and fought in the grass and one of the two young men killed the other because he was loosing the fight.

A fist fight between two young men is not the same as a mother shooting a home invader to defend her children.

It doesn't matter! Same law applies.

If it was me in this situation reversed, would everyone be after me?

The answer is:

NO.

The law is the law.

 

[Snookie]

See...sometimes you seem so logical, then you come out with a ridiculous statement like this nonsense.

Do you honestly believe GZ is a dirtbag with no honor running around looking for people to kill? And that he goaded TM to hit him so he could claim self-defense even though his real intention was to find someone, anyone I suppose, to kill? Say you were just trying to be provocative, please.

That is just crazy talk! Completely unfounded, unproven, and unsuggested - even by the prosecution.

Yep

Sorry you guys missed my earlier post. My point here is not that GZ is a dirt bag.. My bad. My point raised earlier is that if GZ can do this why not anyone else? For that matter why not TM? As was pointed out earlier the only reason we have GZ on trial and not TM is cause TM did not shoot GZ in self defense. If TM had that gun he was talking about getting, he may have shot GZ in the chest. Then we'd be talking about whether or not TM did it in self defense. Same circumstances different players, same arguments? Or does the argument change when the guy who's claiming self defense is a person we assume is a good guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the bad guy. Or does the argument change when the guy who'd claiming self defense is a person we assume is a bad guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the good guy?

You hit the nail on the head with that post.

 

[wavingrl]

I would argue that we have become an overly litigious nation that appears to have no honor in the yes of many.

IMO the portions of laws that are based on "fear," such as zero tolerance law, this portion of the self defense law, the unpatriot act, etc. are heading away from reason, heading away from liberty, heading away from honor.

Fear is the mind killer...

We are an overly litigious nation. That is a different thread and a different subject. And honor is a great thing, but we aren't talking about that here. This is a single event that everyone hung their hat on.

You know about everything that's happened since this began, correct? So you're going on a foundation of full knowledge, I'm going to assume that.

I cannot even believe I'm going to do this. I'm going gray unicorns.

Where do you draw that line in the law and in the sand?

You can't do it for one and not for another, it's all or none.

It is the world we live in.

You saw the video @Missourian posted a couple pages back. Shoot - self defense?

Self defense?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYl6vrzza78"]Georgia Mom Shoots Intruder 5 times! (911 Call) 1/10/13 - YouTube[/ame]

Burglary suspect flees after 84-year-old home owner confronts him with gun, shoots at getaway car

self defense?

Deputies: Robber shot by homeowner in Pompano Beach - Broward - MiamiHerald.com

This is what we are up against...

Huffington Post headline for the Georgia Mom story...


Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

??

She was in her own home--hiding, with two 9 yr old girls.

I can't remember exactly but the suspect said he went looking for her.
maybe I can find a link.

eta: There was another article after this one--not that it really matters.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/alleged-intruder-shot-by-loganville-mother-out-of-/nWL8c/

At any rate LE never considered charges against this woman.

 

[Missourian]

We are an overly litigious nation. That is a different thread and a different subject. And honor is a great thing, but we aren't talking about that here. This is a single event that everyone hung their hat on.

You know about everything that's happened since this began, correct? So you're going on a foundation of full knowledge, I'm going to assume that.

I cannot even believe I'm going to do this. I'm going gray unicorns.

Where do you draw that line in the law and in the sand?

You can't do it for one and not for another, it's all or none.

It is the world we live in.

You saw the video @Missourian posted a couple pages back. Shoot - self defense?

Self defense?

Georgia Mom Shoots Intruder 5 times! (911 Call) 1/10/13 - YouTube

Burglary suspect flees after 84-year-old home owner confronts him with gun, shoots at getaway car

self defense?

Deputies: Robber shot by homeowner in Pompano Beach - Broward - MiamiHerald.com

This is what we are up against...

Huffington Post headline for the Georgia Mom story...


Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

What we are up against is freedom of speech.

No, a warped perspective, where the victim is a criminal for protecting herself and her family.

 

[Sarah G]

You contradicted yourself.

And yes he does get to decide even without getting punched in the nose or knocked to the ground.

YOU don't get to decide for him how he felt.

He can say his life was in danger but that doesn't automatically equate to him walking free because he felt that way. They still have to prove their case, not just say oh he felt threatened so he shot the kid, don't we all feel sorry for this jerk?

I feel like I'm hearing a lot of excuses for that bad decision that day. This isn't the old West.

NO the defense doesn't have to prove shit. The prosecution has to prove theirs beyond a reasonable doubt. Most people believe that they have failed miserably. It will only get worse as the defense presents their case.

Ernie, I realize you all think you're lawyers but Zimmerman has to introduce some evidence that he acted in self-defense. If that weren't the case, he could simply say that, not show up in court and let the prosecution hammer away at proving their case.

All he would have to do is call in at the end and find out what the verdict is. Please stop trying so hard, everyone here has been watching the case and we do know what is going on.

As for Sunshine explaining to eveyone the intricacies of the law...

 

[Missourian]

We are an overly litigious nation. That is a different thread and a different subject. And honor is a great thing, but we aren't talking about that here. This is a single event that everyone hung their hat on.

You know about everything that's happened since this began, correct? So you're going on a foundation of full knowledge, I'm going to assume that.

I cannot even believe I'm going to do this. I'm going gray unicorns.

Where do you draw that line in the law and in the sand?

You can't do it for one and not for another, it's all or none.

It is the world we live in.

You saw the video @Missourian posted a couple pages back. Shoot - self defense?

Self defense?

Georgia Mom Shoots Intruder 5 times! (911 Call) 1/10/13 - YouTube

Burglary suspect flees after 84-year-old home owner confronts him with gun, shoots at getaway car

self defense?

Deputies: Robber shot by homeowner in Pompano Beach - Broward - MiamiHerald.com

This is what we are up against...

Huffington Post headline for the Georgia Mom story...


Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

??

She was in her own home--hiding, with two 9 yr old girls.

I can't remember exactly but the suspect said he went looking for her.
maybe I can find a link.

At any rate LE never considered charges against this woman.

Doesn't make any difference...ask Snookie.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

zOMG. Fancy Grapes showed up after all.

Let the screaming begin.

 

[Snookie]

Testarosa, these are completely different types of cases.

The case we are talking about is a case where two young men confronted each other and fought in the grass and one of the two young men killed the other because he was loosing the fight.

A fist fight between two young men is not the same as a mother shooting a home invader to defend her children.

It doesn't matter! Same law applies.

If it was me in this situation reversed, would everyone be after me?

The answer is:

NO.

The law is the law.

There are a lot of bad laws on the books and this is one of the worst.

For example, no one drove 55mph when it was a law.

Boston tea party ring a bell?

 

[wharfrat]

See...sometimes you seem so logical, then you come out with a ridiculous statement like this nonsense.

Do you honestly believe GZ is a dirtbag with no honor running around looking for people to kill? And that he goaded TM to hit him so he could claim self-defense even though his real intention was to find someone, anyone I suppose, to kill? Say you were just trying to be provocative, please.

That is just crazy talk! Completely unfounded, unproven, and unsuggested - even by the prosecution.

Yep

Sorry you guys missed my earlier post. My point here is not that GZ is a dirt bag.. My bad. My point raised earlier is that if GZ can do this why not anyone else? For that matter why not TM? As was pointed out earlier the only reason we have GZ on trial and not TM is cause TM did not shoot GZ in self defense. If TM had that gun he was talking about getting, he may have shot GZ in the chest. Then we'd be talking about whether or not TM did it in self defense. Same circumstances different players, same arguments? Or does the argument change when the guy who'd claim self defense is a person we assume is a good guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the bad guy. Or does the argument change when the guy who's claiming self defense is a person we assume is a bad guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the good guy?

This is it for me for the night; I'm beating a dead horse.

You drank the media Kool-Aid. Why else would you assume either one was a "bad guy?"

If you want to see an egregious case of self-defense and its limits, research this case:

Self-Defense Case: Pharmacist Guilty - WSJ.com

This gentleman makes the Zimmerman story seem like a children's book,

 

[TemplarKormac]

Just because multiple posters believe you, doesn't make you right. And as how I would vote if I were on a jury, don't be so sure. I haven't heard all of the evidence and what I heard from the prosecution did not sway me in their direction at all. I can't believe the prosecutions own witness, Jeantel (sp?), and the mother is, well, a mother.

I know Murder2 is out and FWIW, I would have to know the details of manslaughter or let him go, if I felt he was fighting for his life. I don't like the idea that he gained 110 lbs to look like an overweight old man who couldn't fight back; I'm wondering how he could get his gun out when TM was on top of him but maybe he could; wouldn't TM have more bruises and cuts on his hands if he really hit him more that once?

The defense is good and they might sway me in thinking this really was a life and death situation. But then again...who really started it by following in the first place when the kid wasn't acting suspicious. That's the rub.

One of these posters, (and I won't name names) was a private detective for over three decades, he has done work for many defense attorneys in his career, and he happens to be from my home state. Suffice it to say he has prior experience in this field. So the fact he and I agree on most of the same things on this case should tell you something, Jackson.

I could tell you three posters are from the CIA and agree with me. (I call, and raise you 2)

It is preferable to have experience on your side, rather than conjecture. Grow up.

 

[RKMBrown]

I know you know this, but this is not a movie. This isn't Hollywood. This is real life, and this is how the court system works. It seems serious because it is serious. And I wouldn't be willing to throw Zimmerman into a cage for the next 25 years because he had a reasonable belief that his life was about to end that night. Nor am I willing to compromise our laws because some want their pound of flesh.

?

I thought we were in a discussion thread on a bulletin board. Since when is invol. manslaughter 25years?

As of 6:51 CST, George Zimmerman is still on trial for second degree murder. Do you actually think he isn't sweating the maximum charge right now? Really?

I'm aware of the gravity of this trial. I'm also aware of the larger context beyond this trial.

We are not members of the jury. We are observers, discussing the trial and some of the issues that surround the trial. I'm not looking for a pound of flesh. I'm a firm believer in liberty and honor. I believe liberty ends when it takes away the liberty of others. I believe TM had a right to life that night that he did not forfeit by engaging in a fist fight.

 

[Snookie]

This is what we are up against...

Huffington Post headline for the Georgia Mom story...


Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

??

She was in her own home--hiding, with two 9 yr old girls.

I can't remember exactly but the suspect said he went looking for her.
maybe I can find a link.

At any rate LE never considered charges against this woman.

Doesn't make any difference...ask Snookie.

Or Nancy Grapes. We know the truth and will not waver in our beliefs.

 

[testarosa]

We are an overly litigious nation. That is a different thread and a different subject. And honor is a great thing, but we aren't talking about that here. This is a single event that everyone hung their hat on.

You know about everything that's happened since this began, correct? So you're going on a foundation of full knowledge, I'm going to assume that.

I cannot even believe I'm going to do this. I'm going gray unicorns.

Where do you draw that line in the law and in the sand?

You can't do it for one and not for another, it's all or none.

It is the world we live in.

You saw the video @Missourian posted a couple pages back. Shoot - self defense?

Self defense?

Georgia Mom Shoots Intruder 5 times! (911 Call) 1/10/13 - YouTube

Burglary suspect flees after 84-year-old home owner confronts him with gun, shoots at getaway car

self defense?

Deputies: Robber shot by homeowner in Pompano Beach - Broward - MiamiHerald.com

This is what we are up against...

Huffington Post headline for the Georgia Mom story...


Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

??

She was in her own home--hiding, with two 9 yr old girls.

I can't remember exactly but the suspect said he went looking for her.
maybe I can find a link.

At any rate LE never considered charges against this woman.

The point of all that is - Take away all the media, all the race, all the politics and only leave the case.

You can't do one law for someone and one law for someone else in different "circumstances".

 

[testarosa]

Yep

Sorry you guys missed my earlier post. My point here is not that GZ is a dirt bag.. My bad. My point raised earlier is that if GZ can do this why not anyone else? For that matter why not TM? As was pointed out earlier the only reason we have GZ on trial and not TM is cause TM did not shoot GZ in self defense. If TM had that gun he was talking about getting, he may have shot GZ in the chest. Then we'd be talking about whether or not TM did it in self defense. Same circumstances different players, same arguments? Or does the argument change when the guy who'd claim self defense is a person we assume is a good guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the bad guy. Or does the argument change when the guy who's claiming self defense is a person we assume is a bad guy and the guy he killed is someone we assume is the good guy?

This is it for me for the night; I'm beating a dead horse.

You drank the media Kool-Aid. Why else would you assume either one was a "bad guy?"

If you want to see an egregious case of self-defense and its limits, research this case:

Self-Defense Case: Pharmacist Guilty - WSJ.com

This gentleman makes the Zimmerman story seem like a children's book,

I'm with ya.

Night.