The Poverty Excuse

[martybegan]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

 

[pknopp]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

 

[danielpalos]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Not for the right wing. Only helping out the poor individually is a crime for the right wing.

 

[martybegan]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Taxation like government is overhead, not theft.

 

[pknopp]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Taxation like government is overhead, not theft.

Well, glad to see you acknowledge that.

 

[martybegan]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Taxation like government is overhead, not theft.

Well, glad to see you acknowledge that.

Considering I never ever said it, there was no need to acknowledge.

 

[Indeependent]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What theft?
Be precise.

 

[pknopp]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What theft?
Be precise.

I've already posted a link in the thread.

 

[Indeependent]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What theft?
Be precise.

I've already posted a link in the thread.

What theft did Trump engage in?
Be precise.

 

[pknopp]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What theft?
Be precise.

I've already posted a link in the thread.

What theft did Trump engage in?
Be precise.

Read the thread. Don't be lazy.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

Well you know where this originated

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of Black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name” until the 1930s.​

​

The Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1865, prohibited slavery and involuntary servitude, but explicitly exempted those convicted of crime. In response, Southern state legislatures quickly passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to Black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare Black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more Black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.​

Convict Leasing​

 

[JoeB131]

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

So this is my problem, why? It seems we don't want to address the problems of poverty and racism in this society, but we whine incessantly about it's side effect of crime.

 

[Blues Man]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. If you were an insurance company, would you insure a business in Seattle under such laws? Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

While that might be taking it too far poverty is for many a reason they commit petty crime.

When I was a teen and in foster care I stayed out of that house as much as possible sometimes for weeks at a time and the foster idiots didn't care as long as they got their checks .

Sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was what I could pocket from the corner store. When I was 15 I started slinging weed and was able to at least make enough money to eat and to buy some clothes from the Salvation Army.

So saying that poverty, real poverty, doesn't contribute to crime is naive.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. If you were an insurance company, would you insure a business in Seattle under such laws? Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

So, will they also exempt those people receiving stolen property from the exempt bum thieves?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

So this is my problem, why? It seems we don't want to address the problems of poverty and racism in this society, but we whine incessantly about it's side effect of crime.

So, socialism is the answer? Why trade one crime of theft for another by government?

 

[pknopp]

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

So this is my problem, why? It seems we don't want to address the problems of poverty and racism in this society, but we whine incessantly about it's side effect of crime.

So, socialism is the answer? Why trade one crime of theft for another by government?

We are $28 trillion in debt. Everything is theft.

 

[Correll]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

 

[pknopp]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how that relates to what I said.

 

[Correll]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Taxation like government is overhead, not theft.

Well, glad to see you acknowledge that.

The bit where you take the most extreme positions of the Right and just assign it to anyone to on the Right?

That is your brain, knowing it is losing the argument and getting desperate and dishonest to try to protect your world view.

 

[Blues Man]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring bank robbers to the G-men hunting them down.

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

Realizing a fact isn't whining.

And FYI food deserts for lack of a better term do exist not because of shop lifting but because poor people don't have enough money to spend at stores