The Problem with Socialism

[Fenton Lum]

Make sure you read the other important work, The Problem with Capitalism.

Like what? That you are expected to get off your ass and make your own way? Your problem isn't the achievers' problem. We like capitalism.

If you don't know the problems of capitalism, then you don't know capitalism.

well name the problems? It's what you have survived off all these years, no? You would trade all that in for Socialism/communism?

Ever see pictures of bread lines during the Great Depression and other times in the US?

The Great Depression was a problem the government created.

Dilusional.

 

[Jack4jill]

Yes, life was so much better when the government didn't regulate food,or drugs, or build roads. Of course the water was unsafe to drink, the food was tainted, and the drugs poison but oh how I long for those good old days.

The Alcohol Republic: Why Did the Founding Fathers drink So Much? | Flask.com

Life wasn't as good then because material welfare improves over time. The farther you go back, the less the material welfare. It has nothing to do with the expansion of government, which has only the effect of retarding the improvement in material welfare.

You're blaming capitalism for problems that were mostly the fault of ignorance. Food and water quality were worse in countries that didn't have an industrial revolution. The fact is that during the industrial revolution life expectancy was higher than it had ever been. Infant mortality rates were at an all time low.

Your Pollyanna version of history is as bad as your Pollyanna version of capitalism.

Yours is the Pollyanna version of history where capitalists are evil malefactors and government steps in time after time to save the people.

That's a fantasy version of history.

That's not my version. In my version, the correct one, capitalism is a hammer, you can build a house with it or kill the guy next door. It's a tool, a tool that requires what government provides.

Capitalism needs nothing from government.

You know absolutely nothing of capitalism. Not even at the Adam Smith let's make a pin level.

You are truly a moron and no real capitalist would ever say such a stupid thing.

"If capitalism is the answer to expanding the wealth of nations, what is government’s role in society? Smith sees a number of strictly circumscribed jobs: (1) “protecting the society from the violence and invasion of other independent societies”; (2) protecting “every member of society from the injustice or oppression of every other members of it”; (3) maintaining a predictable court system for “exact administration of justice”; (4) maintaining public institutions and public works, such as public roads; (5) “supporting institutions for education and religious instruction”; (6) predictable and non-onerous taxation, affecting “the pockets of people as little as possible”; and (7) temperance in deficit spending (“Nations, like private men, have generally begun to borrow upon what may be called personal credit” and the result is “enormous debts which . . . will in the long-run probably ruin, all the great nations of Europe”) (647-649). But wherever governments fail in these minimal duties, the wealth of a nation suffers:

Commerce and manufacturers can seldom flourish long in any state which does not enjoy a regular administration of justice, in which the people do not feel themselves secure in the possession of their property, in which the faith of contracts is not supported by law, and in which the authority of the state is not supposed to be regularly employed in enforcing the payment of debts from all those who are able to pay. Commerce and manufactures, in short, can seldom flourish in any state in which there is not a certain degree of confidence in the justice of government."
Adam Smith and Capitalism for Beginners

 

[bripat9643]

Our standard of living would skyrocket if government was cut in half.

People who think government improves their lives are the ones who don't understand government.

Please name a nation with less government than this one.

1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 New Zealand
4 Switzerland
5 Australia
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Ireland
9 Estonia
10 United Kingdom
11 United States​

Apparenlty you're not including gun laws?

If you want to know the methodology used, go to the Heritage Index of Economic Freedom website:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Interesting list, thanks:

1 Hong Kong ........................... TheGovernment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, commonly theHong Kong Government, refers to the executive authorities of the Hong Kong SAR. The Government is formallyledby theChief Executiveof the SAR, who nominates its principal officials for appointment by the Chinese Central People's Government (State Council).

2 Singapore …………………….constitutional parliamentary republic
3 New Zealand ………………….monarchy
4 Switzerland ........................... socialist
5 Australia ……………………….commonwealth
6 Canada ……………….......… socialist
7 Chile ………………………… Representative democratic republic
8 Ireland …………………..........socialist
9 Estonia ………………….. ….parliamentary republic
10 United Kingdom ……....…. socialist
11 United States ………….....…privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street Bankster class
……………Internalized profits versus externalized risk/expense for the “job creator” class
……………Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez faire capitalism for the masses


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Switzerland is "socialist" while Australia is a "common wealth?"

Your labels are total meaningless bullshit, of course.

 

[bripat9643]

Like what? That you are expected to get off your ass and make your own way? Your problem isn't the achievers' problem. We like capitalism.

If you don't know the problems of capitalism, then you don't know capitalism.

well name the problems? It's what you have survived off all these years, no? You would trade all that in for Socialism/communism?

Ever see pictures of bread lines during the Great Depression and other times in the US?

The Great Depression was a problem the government created.

Dilusional.

Fact. The Federal Reserve caused the credit bubble that led to the collapse in 1929. It did the same thing in 2008.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Please name a nation with less government than this one.

1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 New Zealand
4 Switzerland
5 Australia
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Ireland
9 Estonia
10 United Kingdom
11 United States​

Apparenlty you're not including gun laws?

If you want to know the methodology used, go to the Heritage Index of Economic Freedom website:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Interesting list, thanks:

1 Hong Kong ........................... TheGovernment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, commonly theHong Kong Government, refers to the executive authorities of the Hong Kong SAR. The Government is formallyledby theChief Executiveof the SAR, who nominates its principal officials for appointment by the Chinese Central People's Government (State Council).

2 Singapore …………………….constitutional parliamentary republic
3 New Zealand ………………….monarchy
4 Switzerland ........................... socialist
5 Australia ……………………….commonwealth
6 Canada ……………….......… socialist
7 Chile ………………………… Representative democratic republic
8 Ireland …………………..........socialist
9 Estonia ………………….. ….parliamentary republic
10 United Kingdom ……....…. socialist
11 United States ………….....…privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street Bankster class
……………Internalized profits versus externalized risk/expense for the “job creator” class
……………Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez faire capitalism for the masses


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Switzerland is "socialist" while Australia is a "common wealth?"

Your labels are total meaningless bullshit, of course.

Go down the list and take it apart one by one then, k? Look it all up.

 

[Fenton Lum]

If you don't know the problems of capitalism, then you don't know capitalism.

well name the problems? It's what you have survived off all these years, no? You would trade all that in for Socialism/communism?

Ever see pictures of bread lines during the Great Depression and other times in the US?

The Great Depression was a problem the government created.

Dilusional.

Fact. The Federal Reserve caused the credit bubble that led to the collapse in 1929. It did the same thing in 2008.

The world know hows total laissez faire capitalism ends even if you do not.

 

[bripat9643]

well name the problems? It's what you have survived off all these years, no? You would trade all that in for Socialism/communism?

Ever see pictures of bread lines during the Great Depression and other times in the US?

The Great Depression was a problem the government created.

Dilusional.

Fact. The Federal Reserve caused the credit bubble that led to the collapse in 1929. It did the same thing in 2008.

The world know hows total laissez faire capitalism ends even if you do not.

It ends only because government kills it. Government can't stand competition.

 

[Jack4jill]

Ever see pictures of bread lines during the Great Depression and other times in the US?

The Great Depression was a problem the government created.

Dilusional.

Fact. The Federal Reserve caused the credit bubble that led to the collapse in 1929. It did the same thing in 2008.

The world know hows total laissez faire capitalism ends even if you do not.

It ends only because government kills it. Government can't stand competition.

You truly know nothing. You don't even understand the dogma.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Ever see pictures of bread lines during the Great Depression and other times in the US?

The Great Depression was a problem the government created.

Dilusional.

Fact. The Federal Reserve caused the credit bubble that led to the collapse in 1929. It did the same thing in 2008.

The world know hows total laissez faire capitalism ends even if you do not.

It ends only because government kills it. Government can't stand competition.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, and that's why that list of 10 you gave us includes some nations considered socialist. How old are you?

 

[MikeK]

Indian reservations were held under total government control, aka, socialism. How has that worked?

More like totalitarianism.

 

[Fenton Lum]

There are people who think they could maintain their current standard of living if "the government" were cut in half. Or....laughably....improve their standard of living.

These are funny people who don't understand how things work.

Our standard of living would skyrocket if government was cut in half.

People who think government improves their lives are the ones who don't understand government.

Yes, life was so much better when the government didn't regulate food,or drugs, or build roads. Of course the water was unsafe to drink, the food was tainted, and the drugs poison but oh how I long for those good old days.

The Alcohol Republic: Why Did the Founding Fathers drink So Much? | Flask.com

Life wasn't as good then because material welfare improves over time. The farther you go back, the less the material welfare. It has nothing to do with the expansion of government, which has only the effect of retarding the improvement in material welfare.

You're blaming capitalism for problems that were mostly the fault of ignorance. Food and water quality were worse in countries that didn't have an industrial revolution. The fact is that during the industrial revolution life expectancy was higher than it had ever been. Infant mortality rates were at an all time low.

Your Pollyanna version of history is as bad as your Pollyanna version of capitalism.

Yours is the Pollyanna version of history where capitalists are evil malefactors and government steps in time after time to save the people.

Sometimes, not always. Both have been true in the past, sorry you can't get that. It's always about balance. You might want to look into that, being balanced,

 

[Centinel]

What limits are you even talking about?

The limits on Congress' legislative powers. Congress may not enact any old law it wishes. It may only enact laws necessary and proper to carry into execution its enumerated legislative powers.

 

[MikeK]

You and some others need to learn the difference between capitalism and crony capitalism. It's mostly the left that tries to give capitalism a bad name by messing with it.

Crony capitalism is benign compared with laissez-faire capitalism, which you have overlooked but which is emerging in America and has begun to methodically eradicate the Middle Class.

 

[Iceweasel]

Commerce and manufacturers can seldom flourish long in any state which does not enjoy a regular administration of justice, in which the people do not feel themselves secure in the possession of their property, in which the faith of contracts is not supported by law, and in which the authority of the state is not supposed to be regularly employed in enforcing the payment of debts from all those who are able to pay. Commerce and manufactures, in short, can seldom flourish in any state in which there is not a certain degree of confidence in the justice of government."
Adam Smith and Capitalism for Beginners

LOL. You are way out of your league. Commerce without government is called anarchy. Conservatives aren't anarchists. Capitalists aren't anarchists. Capitalism can only work within a government. Let's bring you back to kindergarten, you aren't ready for the beginning since you don't understand the words.

Definition of CAPITALISM
Simple Definition of capitalism

• : a way of organizing an economy so that the things that are used to make and transport products (such as land, oil, factories, ships, etc.) are owned by individual people and companies rather than by the government
  

Do you understand the above? Capitalism is an economic system owned by private citizens. Period. If there is a system in place it isn't anarchy and you need a government to secure it. That's done by creating and protecting borders, having just laws, military, police, fire, emergency. All things necessary for a functioning system. You don't get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Having a government isn't socialism. That is NOT what socialism means.

 

[Jack4jill]

Capitalists aren't anarchists. Capitalism can only work within a government.

That's what I said, dumbfuck.

 

[Iceweasel]

You and some others need to learn the difference between capitalism and crony capitalism. It's mostly the left that tries to give capitalism a bad name by messing with it.

Crony capitalism is benign compared with laissez-faire capitalism, which you have overlooked but which is emerging in America and has begun to methodically eradicate the Middle Class.

WRONG. Just the opposite is happening. More government. More regulations. Increase in size and scope of big business making deals with government. Small business is shrinking right along with the middle class. You idiots support more government, get crony capitalism then blame what's left of capitalism. It's a mental illness.

 

[Iceweasel]

Capitalists aren't anarchists. Capitalism can only work within a government.

That's what I said, dumbfuck.

Wrong, dumbfuck. You've made the case all along that any government is evidence of socialism.

"Yes, life was so much better when the government didn't regulate food,or drugs, or build roads. Of course the water was unsafe to drink, the food was tainted, and the drugs poison but oh how I long for those good old days."

 

[MikeK]

We should stop taking people's money by force to provide these services, and we should provide them ourselves voluntarily.

Who are you defending? Goldman/Sachs and other Wall Street and corporate criminals? -- every one of whom deserve to be stripped of every dime they have and tossed into Leavenworth for what they've done to our economy.

You obviously have been brainwashed by right-wing water carriers and such propagandists as Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, et al. I urge you to seek other points of view and to educate yourself.

 

[Jack4jill]

Capitalists aren't anarchists. Capitalism can only work within a government.

That's what I said, dumbfuck.

Wrong, dumbfuck. You've made the case all along that any government is evidence of socialism.

I did? No, dumbfuck. I made the case for regulated capitalism.

Go fight with Bripat, who says the government offers capitalism nothing. And read the fucking thread next time.

 

[Jack4jill]

Capitalism needs nothing from government.

Here you go, jackass.