The problem with taxing the rich

Boss

Take a Memo:
Apr 21, 2012
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Over the past decade or so, the cries from the left have become incessantly loud, that we must dramatically increase taxes on the rich, who supposedly "don't pay their fair share," and have "more money than they need." When you attempt to have a civil conversation with these people, they tune you out, and insist that rich people are greedy bastards who all fit some stereotype of Homer Simpson's boss. They fail to realize one key fundamental, we don't tax wealth in America. We tax incomes.

Now, this doesn't matter to the left, they presume that people who earn high incomes are rich folk, like Homer Simpson's boss. These rich people get paid outrageous amounts of money to sit around drinking bourbon and yucking it up at the country club about who they screwed over this week, while their wives blow money like Paris Hilton in a little dog shop. They buy their kids Hummers for graduation, and go on lavish vacations to Barbados or Fiji. The left has developed this false perception based on stereotypes, and nothing can penetrate the prejudice.

The truth of the matter is, there are all kinds of different people who earn a lot of income, and not all of them are wealthy. There are also very wealthy people who earn very little income at all, and simply live off of their wealth and investments. There is no stereotype which applies to everyone, we don't live in a cookie-cutter world. This is the biggest problem I have with setting any arbitrary amount at which we determine is "enough" without regard for what the individual does, or the value of their contribution.

I want to present a few examples for your consideration, in order to illustrate what I am saying. First up, John Hannah, the All-pro offensive lineman who played for the New England Patriots in the 70s. Arguably, the greatest OL to ever play the game. When he signed with New England, his base salary was in the neighborhood of $400k per year. He played for 12 years, 183 games. Of course, he renegotiated his contract a few times along the way, but Hannah never made the kind of money stars of today make in the NFL. After his career in football, he held several jobs in coaching, making considerably less income. Currently, he works for a friend of mine, and makes less than $40k per year. The wealth he enjoyed while playing football is gone, he literally came begging my friend for a job. Big John made decent money in his day, but pro football careers are relatively short, and the lifestyle you are expected to maintain is very expensive. In any event, the man was never "wealthy" and for his entire career, probably earned less than an average #4 draft pick signs for these days.

Next up, a man you don't know, is name is David Hilliard. He works as an underwater welder on oil/gas pipelines in Texas. David knocks down a cool $240k per year, but he works his ass off and takes extreme risk to his life and health, every day. Aside from the dangers related to diving, he also faces a risk of electrocution, and there are a number of high health risks from the environment itself. In my opinion, he is underpaid for what he does.

Finally, a woman I know, named Lisa. She started a cleaning business in 1992, following the death of her husband, and being left to raise 3 children with no experience or work history. She slowly built a small business from the ground up, starting with a shoestring budget, eating mac-and-cheese for dinner every night, her children qualifying for government assistance, and living in low income housing. Twenty years later, she oversees 6 crews of 4 people each, and files her taxes as an individual, showing an income of around $200k per year. However, that is the income from her business, and she has to pay for everything related to the business, including her employees wages and benefits. Now, she did manage to send all three of her children to college, and she owns a modest home, but she is not a 'wealthy' person, by any stretch.

The point here is this; None of these people fit the stereotype of the left, they aren't "wealthy" individuals, they are talented, hard working, determined, but not rich. Taking a larger piece of their pie because you are jealous that they make more money than most, is just plain boneheaded and immature. We don't have ANY way of determining the "worth" of what someone brings to the table. There is a vast difference between an income of $200k earned by Lisa, who paid her dues, ate mac-and-cheese, suffered and struggled to make it... and some jerk off who wins $200k pulling a slot machine lever in Vegas, isn't there? So why do we feel compelled to tax them at the same exorbitant rate? There is a difference between David, who earns $240k a year risking his life every day, and some ingrate who inherited the rights to his father's music royalties, which earn $240k per year.

Are we supposed to put people like Nancy Pelosi in charge of determining who deserves what they earn and who doesn't? Or should we leave this up to the capitalist system, which always seems to manage paying people based on value? What in the hell gives ANY liberal the right to determine what is a fair amount to earn in income? Based on WHAT? How can anyone arbitrarily establish a dollar amount that is "fair" in all cases and circumstances?

The dirty little secret in this whole deal, is that the "super rich" have no real NEED to earn incomes anymore. They only do so because they can, and if you start taxing them outrageous amounts, more and more of them will simply stop doing it. They didn't become wealthy by being idiots. The people you hurt by jacking up taxes on high incomes, are the people who are trying to become rich, the people who are still working on it, who haven't yet arrived at where they want to be. Kill their dream, and you effectively kill the dream for everyone. But the liberal left is poised to take the hacksaw to their own nose, consequences be damned.
 
The problem is government treating people unequally under law because of some bullshit SUBJECTIVE view of fairness.. it is nothing more than a way to pander for votes..

You need not go any further than that when it comes to taxing 'the rich' or any other group of citizens
 
Hey lets talk about the ultra rich. Those making 1 million and up. Do you really think 200k a year is ultra rich? But 200k a year is not chump change. Matter of fact, that amount of income would put the earner in the top 3%. Are you gonna feel sorry for those at the top of the income ladder? Why?

And now you want to change the tax rate based on personal risk for the job being done? That's not very Republican of you. Those people are the ones that chose their profession. Personal responsibility and all that. Maybe the welder like high risk work. Gets a thrill out of it. Next thing you will be worried about taxing baseball millioniares more cause they could get hit with a ball.
 
Hey lets talk about the ultra rich. Those making 1 million and up. Do you really think 200k a year is ultra rich? But 200k a year is not chump change. Matter of fact, that amount of income would put the earner in the top 3%. Are you gonna feel sorry for those at the top of the income ladder? Why?

And now you want to change the tax rate based on personal risk for the job being done? That's not very Republican of you. Those people are the ones that chose their profession. Personal responsibility and all that. Maybe the welder like high risk work. Gets a thrill out of it. Next thing you will be worried about taxing baseball millioniares more cause they could get hit with a ball.

Lets talk equality in treatment by government under law.. and leave it at that..

nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas
 
Oh I think the rich, all the rich, pay they're fair share. They pay more in taxes than most people. In fact they pay at least 60% of all the Fed taxes out there.

We have loads of folks in this country who pay no Fed taxes at all.
 
Hey lets talk about the ultra rich. Those making 1 million and up. Do you really think 200k a year is ultra rich? But 200k a year is not chump change. Matter of fact, that amount of income would put the earner in the top 3%. Are you gonna feel sorry for those at the top of the income ladder? Why?

And now you want to change the tax rate based on personal risk for the job being done? That's not very Republican of you. Those people are the ones that chose their profession. Personal responsibility and all that. Maybe the welder like high risk work. Gets a thrill out of it. Next thing you will be worried about taxing baseball millioniares more cause they could get hit with a ball.

Lets talk equality in treatment by government under law.. and leave it at that..

nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas

So DD, you don't mind it that the government does not assure everyone equal treatment in personal matters? But just make sure that the government taxes all income the same?

You know how stupid that sounds? How about this dave. You seem to assume that if that were the case, YOUR taxes would be lower. How about if the governmnet decides that yea, we will all be taxed the same. At 40%. That good with you? Fair is fair. Right?

Me, I wouldn't be supporting that idea. You, I guess so.
 
The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.
 
Hey lets talk about the ultra rich. Those making 1 million and up. Do you really think 200k a year is ultra rich? But 200k a year is not chump change. Matter of fact, that amount of income would put the earner in the top 3%. Are you gonna feel sorry for those at the top of the income ladder? Why?

And now you want to change the tax rate based on personal risk for the job being done? That's not very Republican of you. Those people are the ones that chose their profession. Personal responsibility and all that. Maybe the welder like high risk work. Gets a thrill out of it. Next thing you will be worried about taxing baseball millioniares more cause they could get hit with a ball.

Lets talk equality in treatment by government under law.. and leave it at that..

nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas

So DD, you don't mind it that the government does not assure everyone equal treatment in personal matters? But just make sure that the government taxes all income the same?

You know how stupid that sounds? How about this dave. You seem to assume that if that were the case, YOUR taxes would be lower. How about if the governmnet decides that yea, we will all be taxed the same. At 40%. That good with you? Fair is fair. Right?

Me, I wouldn't be supporting that idea. You, I guess so.

Really??

Please show where I stated that ANYWHERE at ALL

If we are ALL taxed at 40% on every dollar.. so be it.. I would not be arguing the equality in treatment.. I might argue the fact that the government should be taxing and spending that much at all.. but not the fact that I am paying the same exact rate as Rich Guy or Poor Guy or any other guy

I do not support subjective FAIR treatment.. FAIR is what got us into this bullshit mess in the first place
 
Oh I think the rich, all the rich, pay they're fair share. They pay more in taxes than most people. In fact they pay at least 60% of all the Fed taxes out there.

We have loads of folks in this country who pay no Fed taxes at all.


And where did those people ever find the money to pay the lobbyist to get the tax laws written for their benefit? Or did the Dems negoiate that favorable tax treatment with Rethugs so that the real rich could get their tax breaks and the Dems could get elected?

The poor people DID NOT write the tax laws. But they are not so stupid that they don't take advantage of them. Just like I do, and you do, and the ultra rich do. Amazingt isnt it?

And you really want to know why the rich pay so much in taxes? THEY HAVE AND MAKE MOST OF THE FUKING MONEY. That wasn't so hard now, was it.
 
The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.
Well.. I guess you would support subjectively treating someone differently by charging different court costs based on what is being sued for... Or maybe on a subjectively chosen level like IQ???

No dollar earned by any person should be treated or taxed any differently than any other.. THAT is equality in treatment.. not changing levels based on some subjective feeling that someone is having a hard time

And as you know.. I support ridding the system of any loophole, deduction, etc.. and I support taxing ALL income the same no matter the source
 
Lets talk equality in treatment by government under law.. and leave it at that..

nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas

So DD, you don't mind it that the government does not assure everyone equal treatment in personal matters? But just make sure that the government taxes all income the same?

You know how stupid that sounds? How about this dave. You seem to assume that if that were the case, YOUR taxes would be lower. How about if the governmnet decides that yea, we will all be taxed the same. At 40%. That good with you? Fair is fair. Right?

Me, I wouldn't be supporting that idea. You, I guess so.

Really??

Please show where I stated that ANYWHERE at ALL

If we are ALL taxed at 40% on every dollar.. so be it.. I would not be arguing the equality in treatment.. I might argue the fact that the government should be taxing and spending that much at all.. but not the fact that I am paying the same exact rate as Rich Guy or Poor Guy or any other guy

I do not support subjective FAIR treatment.. FAIR is what got us into this bullshit mess in the first place


If I understand you correctly. If you make 50k a year, you would have no problem paying income taxes at the same rate as the person making 10 million a year? That about it?

You think you at 50k are the "equal" of the person making 10 million a year? Equal opportunity to influence Congress. Participate in national elections by making contributions of millions of dollars. Call your Congressperson and have them clear their calander for YOU. Are you that "equal" Dave? People making millions and millions and contributing millions to campaigns are more "equal" than you Dave. Jus the way it is.

Here's a little tip for you. That's crazy. And I can personally guarantee you that the person making 10 million a year does not think that you (making 50k) are his/her "equal". No matterwhat you think.

That's why millionares are not hanging out with the workers. They ain't equal.
 
The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.
Well.. I guess you would support subjectively treating someone differently by charging different court costs based on what is being sued for... Or maybe on a subjectively chosen level like IQ???

No dollar earned by any person should be treated or taxed any differently than any other.. THAT is equality in treatment.. not changing levels based on some subjective feeling that someone is having a hard time

And as you know.. I support ridding the system of any loophole, deduction, etc.. and I support taxing ALL income the same no matter the source

Good.

All income up to 50k.......0%
All income between 50k 150k......28%
All income between 150k and 250k......36%
All income between 250k and 1m.......40%
All income between 1m and 10m......50%
All income above 10m.......70%


All income subject to FICA of 3%

Lets do it! Everyone pays the same!
 
The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.
Well.. I guess you would support subjectively treating someone differently by charging different court costs based on what is being sued for... Or maybe on a subjectively chosen level like IQ???

No dollar earned by any person should be treated or taxed any differently than any other.. THAT is equality in treatment.. not changing levels based on some subjective feeling that someone is having a hard time

And as you know.. I support ridding the system of any loophole, deduction, etc.. and I support taxing ALL income the same no matter the source

Good.

All income up to 50k.......0%
All income between 50k 150k......28%
All income between 150k and 250k......36%
All income between 250k and 1m.......40%
All income between 1m and 10m......50%
All income above 10m.......70%


All income subject to FICA of 3%

Lets do it! Everyone pays the same!


Somehow, I don't think the plutocracy would find those numbers very appealing. The ultra rich have spent lots of time and money to get their taxes where they are.

And I think people like Dave think that if everyone's was taxed thesame, it would be at the rate of the poorest earners. Wishful thinking.
 
So DD, you don't mind it that the government does not assure everyone equal treatment in personal matters? But just make sure that the government taxes all income the same?

You know how stupid that sounds? How about this dave. You seem to assume that if that were the case, YOUR taxes would be lower. How about if the governmnet decides that yea, we will all be taxed the same. At 40%. That good with you? Fair is fair. Right?

Me, I wouldn't be supporting that idea. You, I guess so.

Really??

Please show where I stated that ANYWHERE at ALL

If we are ALL taxed at 40% on every dollar.. so be it.. I would not be arguing the equality in treatment.. I might argue the fact that the government should be taxing and spending that much at all.. but not the fact that I am paying the same exact rate as Rich Guy or Poor Guy or any other guy

I do not support subjective FAIR treatment.. FAIR is what got us into this bullshit mess in the first place


If I understand you correctly. If you make 50k a year, you would have no problem paying income taxes at the same rate as the person making 10 million a year? That about it?

You think you at 50k are the "equal" of the person making 10 million a year? Equal opportunity to influence Congress. Participate in national elections by making contributions of millions of dollars. Call your Congressperson and have them clear their calander for YOU. Are you that "equal" Dave? People making millions and millions and contributing millions to campaigns are more "equal" than you Dave. Jus the way it is.

Here's a little tip for you. That's crazy. And I can personally guarantee you that the person making 10 million a year does not think that you (making 50k) are his/her "equal". No matterwhat you think.

That's why millionares are not hanging out with the workers. They ain't equal.

Yep.. 50K is one vote.. 500MIL is one vote..

What that 'other' person thinks is of no consequence... I don't care of they think I look like a sea slug either... they are FREE To do that...

ANd I have called my congressman and got to see them.. even when I was making only 70K a year

You are grasping at straws, idiot.. all because equality in treatment takes away your ability to make other people pay for what you want while you get a zero bill...
 
The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.
Well.. I guess you would support subjectively treating someone differently by charging different court costs based on what is being sued for... Or maybe on a subjectively chosen level like IQ???

No dollar earned by any person should be treated or taxed any differently than any other.. THAT is equality in treatment.. not changing levels based on some subjective feeling that someone is having a hard time

And as you know.. I support ridding the system of any loophole, deduction, etc.. and I support taxing ALL income the same no matter the source

Good.

All income up to 50k.......0%
All income between 50k 150k......28%
All income between 150k and 250k......36%
All income between 250k and 1m.......40%
All income between 1m and 10m......50%
All income above 10m.......70%


All income subject to FICA of 3%

Lets do it! Everyone pays the same!

No.. it is not equal.. as dollars earned are taxed differently...

Dollar 1, 20%.. dollar 10000, 20%.. dollar 20000000, 20%.. whether you are some CEO or some burger flipper.... Whether you have a hard time paying your bills, or an easy time, or you have no bills.. THAT is equality in treatment
 
Really??

Please show where I stated that ANYWHERE at ALL

If we are ALL taxed at 40% on every dollar.. so be it.. I would not be arguing the equality in treatment.. I might argue the fact that the government should be taxing and spending that much at all.. but not the fact that I am paying the same exact rate as Rich Guy or Poor Guy or any other guy

I do not support subjective FAIR treatment.. FAIR is what got us into this bullshit mess in the first place


If I understand you correctly. If you make 50k a year, you would have no problem paying income taxes at the same rate as the person making 10 million a year? That about it?

You think you at 50k are the "equal" of the person making 10 million a year? Equal opportunity to influence Congress. Participate in national elections by making contributions of millions of dollars. Call your Congressperson and have them clear their calander for YOU. Are you that "equal" Dave? People making millions and millions and contributing millions to campaigns are more "equal" than you Dave. Jus the way it is.

Here's a little tip for you. That's crazy. And I can personally guarantee you that the person making 10 million a year does not think that you (making 50k) are his/her "equal". No matterwhat you think.

That's why millionares are not hanging out with the workers. They ain't equal.

Yep.. 50K is one vote.. 500MIL is one vote..

What that 'other' person thinks is of no consequence... I don't care of they think I look like a sea slug either... they are FREE To do that...

ANd I have called my congressman and got to see them.. even when I was making only 70K a year

You are grasping at straws, idiot.. all because equality in treatment takes away your ability to make other people pay for what you want while you get a zero bill...

You are a ledgend in your own mind dude. But you ain't gonna get "equal" treatment with your 70k a year as compared to the person making 10 million a year.

If you don't understand that, you are fuking to stupid to educate.

And why in the fuk would you think I pay no taxes on my 110k of joint income? Project much? Or just a sore loser? You have been trotting out this bull shit every body pay the same tax rate for months. Not getting much traction is it?
 
Well.. I guess you would support subjectively treating someone differently by charging different court costs based on what is being sued for... Or maybe on a subjectively chosen level like IQ???

No dollar earned by any person should be treated or taxed any differently than any other.. THAT is equality in treatment.. not changing levels based on some subjective feeling that someone is having a hard time

And as you know.. I support ridding the system of any loophole, deduction, etc.. and I support taxing ALL income the same no matter the source

Good.

All income up to 50k.......0%
All income between 50k 150k......28%
All income between 150k and 250k......36%
All income between 250k and 1m.......40%
All income between 1m and 10m......50%
All income above 10m.......70%


All income subject to FICA of 3%

Lets do it! Everyone pays the same!

No.. it is not equal.. as dollars earned are taxed differently...

Dollar 1, 20%.. dollar 10000, 20%.. dollar 20000000, 20%.. whether you are some CEO or some burger flipper.... Whether you have a hard time paying your bills, or an easy time, or you have no bills.. THAT is equality in treatment

My method treats all income equally. That you cannot see that is a huge part of your problem.
 

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