The problem with taxing the rich

[DiamondDave]

The jealousy of the libs is astounding.. thinking that the government should be taking over 50% of anyone's income, no matter the level, is laughable.. gotta make sure someone else is paying for what they want out of government, while they keep their bills and the bills of their little pets low... keep voting to have government do more, provide more, and make those pesky high earners pay for it by keeping them in check...

And this is the main reason why liberals make me sick.. it is not trying to push some gay agenda, it is not playing footsie with other countries, it is not because they support silly laws that I do not.. it is the belief that those rich have to pay and it is all owed to the government.. that very same government that grows faster than a maggot pile on a dead bird on a summer day

 

[DiamondDave]

If I understand you correctly. If you make 50k a year, you would have no problem paying income taxes at the same rate as the person making 10 million a year? That about it?

You think you at 50k are the "equal" of the person making 10 million a year? Equal opportunity to influence Congress. Participate in national elections by making contributions of millions of dollars. Call your Congressperson and have them clear their calander for YOU. Are you that "equal" Dave? People making millions and millions and contributing millions to campaigns are more "equal" than you Dave. Jus the way it is.

Here's a little tip for you. That's crazy. And I can personally guarantee you that the person making 10 million a year does not think that you (making 50k) are his/her "equal". No matterwhat you think.

That's why millionares are not hanging out with the workers. They ain't equal.

Yep.. 50K is one vote.. 500MIL is one vote..

What that 'other' person thinks is of no consequence... I don't care of they think I look like a sea slug either... they are FREE To do that...

ANd I have called my congressman and got to see them.. even when I was making only 70K a year

You are grasping at straws, idiot.. all because equality in treatment takes away your ability to make other people pay for what you want while you get a zero bill...

You are a ledgend in your own mind dude. But you ain't gonna get "equal" treatment with your 70k a year as compared to the person making 10 million a year.

If you don't understand that, you are fuking to stupid to educate.

And why in the fuk would you think I pay no taxes on my 110k of joint income? Project much? Or just a sore loser? You have been trotting out this bull shit every body pay the same tax rate for months. Not getting much traction is it?

Uh huh... you are some successful professional

I get the same 1 vote as the millionaire baseball player... the same 1 vote as the whiny momma's boy..

The reason why flat tax gets no traction... simple.. ones like you want others to pay for more shit..... the offer of zero bills to close to 1/2 of the citizenry keeps them voting.. because most will be greedy and vote to keep that free ride coming.. greed and jealousy is a powerful thing.. whether it be the greed and jealousy of a CEO or of a Welfare Queen...

I'll continue to promote my stance on equal treatment.. and i will never stop fighting to get government to do the right thing in equal treatment.. as I have told my congressman and senator many times.. face to face.. even with my sub million dollar income... and they ignore me for the sake of power just as they ignore everyone else... for it is not about some advantage they can GIVE someone (whether they be rich or poor or whatever else).. it is about the power they can indeed amass for themselves

 

[Boss]

The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.

I disagree. Earned income is different from investment income. The reason tax rates are lower on investment income, is because the capital investment was already taxed once as earned income. These individuals are risking their capital, which they do not have to do. They could simply take their marbles and go home, which is what most of them would do, if taxed the same rate as earned income. Since it is desirable to have people investing capital, we do whatever we can to encourage more of it, which means lower tax rates on income from investments. Now, we can eliminate this or make the rate the same as earned income, but do we really want to stifle capital investment. Do you honestly think that would help create more jobs and opportunity economically?

"Loophole" is a buzzword thrown out by the lefties, which sounds like something unfair or unethical being done. Every single one of these so-called "loopholes" was debated and deliberated in Congress, and decided upon by our elected representatives. Most of them pertain to some fundamental problem we were experiencing, and seek to alleviate that problem through some kind of tax incentive. We weren't producing enough corn, so we offered tax breaks for farmers to grow it, that's not a loophole. Expensive homes were not being sold because people couldn't justify the property taxes, so we introduced mortgage deductions, that's not a loophole. And most of these so-called "loopholes" were the result of liberal initiatives in the first place, to address some liberal concern at the time.

The progressive tax system does NOT treat everyone the same. We take a larger slice of your pie, the more you make. How the hell is that fair? I get that the more you make, the more you should pay, but at the same percentage rate, you are paying more already. You're increasing the percentage rate, taking a larger piece of an already larger pie. When you go to the grocery store to purchase a gallon of milk, does it cost you more because you have more money in your wallet? When you go out to eat, is your customary 15% tip ballooned to 30% because you're at a 4-star restaurant?

 

[DiamondDave]

Good.

All income up to 50k.......0%
All income between 50k 150k......28%
All income between 150k and 250k......36%
All income between 250k and 1m.......40%
All income between 1m and 10m......50%
All income above 10m.......70%


All income subject to FICA of 3%

Lets do it! Everyone pays the same!

No.. it is not equal.. as dollars earned are taxed differently...

Dollar 1, 20%.. dollar 10000, 20%.. dollar 20000000, 20%.. whether you are some CEO or some burger flipper.... Whether you have a hard time paying your bills, or an easy time, or you have no bills.. THAT is equality in treatment

My method treats all income equally. That you cannot see that is a huge part of your problem.

No it does not.. and this has been shown to you many times with simple math..

A person making 10K has a different rate of taxation on all income than a person making 10K and that is different than a person making 1MIL... all income is not treated equally... progressive taxation, by definition, is inequality in treatment

 

[zeke]

The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.

I disagree. Earned income is different from investment income. The reason tax rates are lower on investment income, is because the capital investment was already taxed once as earned income. These individuals are risking their capital, which they do not have to do. They could simply take their marbles and go home, which is what most of them would do, if taxed the same rate as earned income. Since it is desirable to have people investing capital, we do whatever we can to encourage more of it, which means lower tax rates on income from investments. Now, we can eliminate this or make the rate the same as earned income, but do we really want to stifle capital investment. Do you honestly think that would help create more jobs and opportunity economically?

"Loophole" is a buzzword thrown out by the lefties, which sounds like something unfair or unethical being done. Every single one of these so-called "loopholes" was debated and deliberated in Congress, and decided upon by our elected representatives. Most of them pertain to some fundamental problem we were experiencing, and seek to alleviate that problem through some kind of tax incentive. We weren't producing enough corn, so we offered tax breaks for farmers to grow it, that's not a loophole. Expensive homes were not being sold because people couldn't justify the property taxes, so we introduced mortgage deductions, that's not a loophole. And most of these so-called "loopholes" were the result of liberal initiatives in the first place, to address some liberal concern at the time.

The progressive tax system does NOT treat everyone the same. We take a larger slice of your pie, the more you make. How the hell is that fair? I get that the more you make, the more you should pay, but at the same percentage rate, you are paying more already. You're increasing the percentage rate, taking a larger piece of an already larger pie. When you go to the grocery store to purchase a gallon of milk, does it cost you more because you have more money in your wallet? When you go out to eat, is your customary 15% tip ballooned to 30% because you're at a 4-star restaurant?

Are you another one of those that think you should pay YOUR taxes at the exact same rate as the ultra rich? 39%?

Or are you fantazing about getting your tax rate down to 10% along with the ultra rich?

You and DD, all men may have been "created" equal in that we all come from a mother with all of the same basic equipment. But if you think being born into poverty is "equal" to being born to wealth, well that's just fuking crazy.

 

[LoneLaugher]

No.. it is not equal.. as dollars earned are taxed differently...

Dollar 1, 20%.. dollar 10000, 20%.. dollar 20000000, 20%.. whether you are some CEO or some burger flipper.... Whether you have a hard time paying your bills, or an easy time, or you have no bills.. THAT is equality in treatment

My method treats all income equally. That you cannot see that is a huge part of your problem.

No it does not.. and this has been shown to you many times with simple math..

A person making 10K has a different rate of taxation on all income than a person making 10K and that is different than a person making 1MIL... all income is not treated equally... progressive taxation, by definition, is inequality in treatment

Dummy,

Under my method, the guy who earns 10m is taxed the same as the guy earning 50k on his first 50k. Do you need someone to sing it to you in a nursery rhyme?

Equal treatment for all.

 

[Ravi]

The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.

Well.. I guess you would support subjectively treating someone differently by charging different court costs based on what is being sued for... Or maybe on a subjectively chosen level like IQ???

No dollar earned by any person should be treated or taxed any differently than any other.. THAT is equality in treatment.. not changing levels based on some subjective feeling that someone is having a hard time

And as you know.. I support ridding the system of any loophole, deduction, etc.. and I support taxing ALL income the same no matter the source

I don't think you actually understand the tax system as it is now. It isn't a subjective thing.

 

[zeke]

My method treats all income equally. That you cannot see that is a huge part of your problem.

No it does not.. and this has been shown to you many times with simple math..

A person making 10K has a different rate of taxation on all income than a person making 10K and that is different than a person making 1MIL... all income is not treated equally... progressive taxation, by definition, is inequality in treatment

Dummy,

Under my method, the guy who earns 10m is taxed the same as the guy earning 50k on his first 50k. Do you need someone to sing it to you in a nursery rhyme?

Equal treatment for all.

They don't want "equal treament", they want a big tax cut. They think if they work for the reduction of the taxes of the ultra rich, they will get a tax cut as well.

 

[Ravi]

The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.

I disagree. Earned income is different from investment income. The reason tax rates are lower on investment income, is because the capital investment was already taxed once as earned income. These individuals are risking their capital, which they do not have to do. They could simply take their marbles and go home, which is what most of them would do, if taxed the same rate as earned income. Since it is desirable to have people investing capital, we do whatever we can to encourage more of it, which means lower tax rates on income from investments. Now, we can eliminate this or make the rate the same as earned income, but do we really want to stifle capital investment. Do you honestly think that would help create more jobs and opportunity economically?

"Loophole" is a buzzword thrown out by the lefties, which sounds like something unfair or unethical being done. Every single one of these so-called "loopholes" was debated and deliberated in Congress, and decided upon by our elected representatives. Most of them pertain to some fundamental problem we were experiencing, and seek to alleviate that problem through some kind of tax incentive. We weren't producing enough corn, so we offered tax breaks for farmers to grow it, that's not a loophole. Expensive homes were not being sold because people couldn't justify the property taxes, so we introduced mortgage deductions, that's not a loophole. And most of these so-called "loopholes" were the result of liberal initiatives in the first place, to address some liberal concern at the time.

The progressive tax system does NOT treat everyone the same. We take a larger slice of your pie, the more you make. How the hell is that fair? I get that the more you make, the more you should pay, but at the same percentage rate, you are paying more already. You're increasing the percentage rate, taking a larger piece of an already larger pie. When you go to the grocery store to purchase a gallon of milk, does it cost you more because you have more money in your wallet? When you go out to eat, is your customary 15% tip ballooned to 30% because you're at a 4-star restaurant?

If you invest your capital, let us say it is $10K, you do not pay taxes on the 10K that you've invested. Ever. Ever. Ever. You only pay taxes on whatever your 10K earns you be it $1.00 or $5,000.

 

[edthecynic]

we don't tax wealth in America. We tax incomes.

Like a broken watch that is correct twice a day, you have stumbled on the crux of the problem, without knowing it I'm sure. Even your MessiahRushie has admitted this is the problem with out tax system.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...
But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.
I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

 

[edthecynic]

The basic progressive tax system treats everyone equally as regards to earned income. Pay this much tax on $10K, pay this much tax on $20K, pay this much tax on $400K.

The unfairness comes in with loopholes and treating different types of income differently. People that earn their incomes from investments pay a much lower rate than those that use their bodies to earn income.

If the point of the OP is to declare that every form of income should be treated the same I'll agree.

I disagree. Earned income is different from investment income. The reason tax rates are lower on investment income, is because the capital investment was already taxed once as earned income. These individuals are risking their capital

Both claims are quite wrong. Your investment is not taxed a second time, you are only taxed on the GAIN from your capital, that's why it is called "Capital GAINS Tax." And the "risk" to their capital has also been discounted as it is deductible from their gains. So neither of your reasons are why the WEALTHY pay little or no income tax, it is because they have paid lobbyists to manipulate Congress and the Middle Class does not.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas

That principle would eliminate every income tax reduction related to children/dependents and make the tax burden on someone with 4 kids exactly the same as someone with 0 kids.

Try selling that to the American public.

 

[Wildman]

"fair share" ?? how about abolishing the criminal IRS and institute a user/consumption tax ? it will NOT be based on what anyone earns it is based on the $$$$$$$$$ you spend, e.g., you buy a 2 million dollar boat you pay "X" amount in tax, your neighbor buys a $2,000 boat he pays "X" in taxes, his neighbor buys a $200 boat he pays "X" in taxes.., NOT "XXXX" or "XXX", or "XX" everyone pays "X" in taxes on their purchase....., got it now ?

does anyone find this system of paying taxes UN FAIR ??

another scenario, you sell a parcel of land for a million buck$, you pay NO tax on one your $ale.., the buyer pay$ the tax.

i see it as a win - win - win situation for all who have a dollar in their pocket or thou$and$ of dollar$ in their pocket !!!!

 

[edthecynic]

"fair share" ?? how about abolishing the criminal IRS and institute a user/consumption tax ? it will NOT be based on what anyone earns it is based on the $$$$$$$$$ you spend, e.g., you buy a 2 million dollar boat you pay "X" amount in tax, your neighbor buys a $2,000 boat he pays "X" in taxes, his neighbor buys a $200 boat he pays "X" in taxes.., NOT "XXXX" or "XXX", or "XX" everyone pays "X" in taxes on their purchase....., got it now ?

does anyone find this system of paying taxes UN FAIR ??

another scenario, you sell a parcel of land for a million buck$, you pay NO tax on one your $ale.., the buyer pay$ the tax.

i see it as a win - win - win situation for all who have a dollar in their pocket or thou$and$ of dollar$ in their pocket !!!!

How about replacing all taxes with one corporate tax. Corporations already have bookkeepers.

 

[Sunshine]

..........snip..........

Are we supposed to put people like Nancy Pelosi in charge of determining who deserves what they earn and who doesn't? Or should we leave this up to the capitalist system, which always seems to manage paying people based on value? What in the hell gives ANY liberal the right to determine what is a fair amount to earn in income? Based on WHAT? How can anyone arbitrarily establish a dollar amount that is "fair" in all cases and circumstances?

The dirty little secret in this whole deal, is that the "super rich" have no real NEED to earn incomes anymore. They only do so because they can, and if you start taxing them outrageous amounts, more and more of them will simply stop doing it. They didn't become wealthy by being idiots. The people you hurt by jacking up taxes on high incomes, are the people who are trying to become rich, the people who are still working on it, who haven't yet arrived at where they want to be. Kill their dream, and you effectively kill the dream for everyone. But the liberal left is poised to take the hacksaw to their own nose, consequences be damned.

How much does Nancy Pelosi earn? What are her investments?

 

[RKMBrown]

To the OP. Your mistake is in thinking that the liberals want people to be successful. The purpose of their actions is to create hell on earth. They freely worship satan. Success for a liberal is a thing that is acquired by all means possible with the exception of effort. Only stupid people work hard in the liberal world. Hard work, effort, and great ideas are things to be derided or stolen by the liberal. This is their plan. Read up on Rules for Radicals.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Hey lets talk about the ultra rich. Those making 1 million and up. Do you really think 200k a year is ultra rich? But 200k a year is not chump change. Matter of fact, that amount of income would put the earner in the top 3%. Are you gonna feel sorry for those at the top of the income ladder? Why?

And now you want to change the tax rate based on personal risk for the job being done? That's not very Republican of you. Those people are the ones that chose their profession. Personal responsibility and all that. Maybe the welder like high risk work. Gets a thrill out of it. Next thing you will be worried about taxing baseball millioniares more cause they could get hit with a ball.

People who don't earn the same wealth as what they deem "the ultra rich" CHOSE the profession and the income for their lifestyle. They didn't want to take the added risk of investing their own capital, seeking a bank loan, and making the effort to meet and maintain government compliance to establish their own business. Rather than seek opportunities, hard work, and education to establish themselves in a CEO position, they complain about the success of another for achieving what they themselves don't have the guts to do. People who work the long hours, take upon themselves some personal risk, and seek the added knowledge to succeed, should not be penalized through taxes for their achievement. To punish those who achieve the American Dream for themselves to satisfy the jealousy and unwillingness of others to do the same, is unAmerican and an insult to the Founders who established this country based on every individual's opportunity towards "the pursuit of happiness".

 

[Claudette]

Oh I think the rich, all the rich, pay they're fair share. They pay more in taxes than most people. In fact they pay at least 60% of all the Fed taxes out there.

We have loads of folks in this country who pay no Fed taxes at all.

And where did those people ever find the money to pay the lobbyist to get the tax laws written for their benefit? Or did the Dems negoiate that favorable tax treatment with Rethugs so that the real rich could get their tax breaks and the Dems could get elected?

The poor people DID NOT write the tax laws. But they are not so stupid that they don't take advantage of them. Just like I do, and you do, and the ultra rich do. Amazingt isnt it?

And you really want to know why the rich pay so much in taxes? THEY HAVE AND MAKE MOST OF THE FUKING MONEY. That wasn't so hard now, was it.

You sound like a jealous idiot.

Just imagine if there were no rich to pay that 60% just who the hell do you think would be paying there dumbo??

Why the middle class of course. The poor pay for nothing so eveything would fall on the middle class.

Personally I'm glad we have those rich folks to pay those taxes.

Oh yeah and the RICH DID NOT RIGHT THE TAX LAW EITHER. You can thank the asshats in DC for that.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Oh I think the rich, all the rich, pay they're fair share. They pay more in taxes than most people. In fact they pay at least 60% of all the Fed taxes out there.

We have loads of folks in this country who pay no Fed taxes at all.

And where did those people ever find the money to pay the lobbyist to get the tax laws written for their benefit? Or did the Dems negoiate that favorable tax treatment with Rethugs so that the real rich could get their tax breaks and the Dems could get elected?

The poor people DID NOT write the tax laws. But they are not so stupid that they don't take advantage of them. Just like I do, and you do, and the ultra rich do. Amazingt isnt it?

And you really want to know why the rich pay so much in taxes? THEY HAVE AND MAKE MOST OF THE FUKING MONEY. That wasn't so hard now, was it.

EVERYONE should be paying their part in taxes, no matter what class level or income level they happen to find themselves in. The poor needs to have some "skin" in the game just like everyone else without exception.

"It’s time to be patriotic … time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut"

 

[DiamondDave]

[
nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas

That principle would eliminate every income tax reduction related to children/dependents and make the tax burden on someone with 4 kids exactly the same as someone with 0 kids.

Try selling that to the American public.

Yep.. because it should not be a sell job trying to give someone an advantage over someone else... I have 2 kids for deductions, and child deductions are to my advantage, but I would rather be treated equally all around than take advantage in situation A and be taken advantage of in situations B and C... this game has to stop

Unfortunately, the American populace usually wants to have them get over on someone else.. and don't realize that the games of pandering are generally fucking them over and empowering the government more and more