The problem with taxing the rich

[DiamondDave]

Oh I think the rich, all the rich, pay they're fair share. They pay more in taxes than most people. In fact they pay at least 60% of all the Fed taxes out there.

We have loads of folks in this country who pay no Fed taxes at all.

And where did those people ever find the money to pay the lobbyist to get the tax laws written for their benefit? Or did the Dems negoiate that favorable tax treatment with Rethugs so that the real rich could get their tax breaks and the Dems could get elected?

The poor people DID NOT write the tax laws. But they are not so stupid that they don't take advantage of them. Just like I do, and you do, and the ultra rich do. Amazingt isnt it?

And you really want to know why the rich pay so much in taxes? THEY HAVE AND MAKE MOST OF THE FUKING MONEY. That wasn't so hard now, was it.

EVERYONE should be paying their part in taxes, no matter what class level or income level they happen to find themselves in. The poor needs to have some "skin" in the game just like everyone else without exception.

"It’s time to be patriotic … time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut"

Having no skin in the game keeps them voting for more trinkets from the government in handouts... it is pandering and class warfare at its finest and they don't even have the smarts to know that they are getting played

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
nobody should be taxed any different rate on any dollar earned... NOBODY..

Unless you condone unequal treatment in other areas

That principle would eliminate every income tax reduction related to children/dependents and make the tax burden on someone with 4 kids exactly the same as someone with 0 kids.

Try selling that to the American public.

Yep.. because it should not be a sell job trying to give someone an advantage over someone else... I have 2 kids for deductions, and child deductions are to my advantage, but I would rather be treated equally all around than take advantage in situation A and be taken advantage of in situations B and C... this game has to stop

Unfortunately, the American populace usually wants to have them get over on someone else.. and don't realize that the games of pandering are generally fucking them over and empowering the government more and more

It's hard to have a democratic system of government that doesn't give the voters what they want.

What you're suggesting would amount to an income tax increase of virtually every American taxpayer with dependent children;

there is not even an imaginable scenario where that would happen.

 

[hazlnut]

First up, John Hannah, the All-pro offensive lineman who played for the New England Patriots in the 70s. Arguably, the greatest OL to ever play the game. When he signed with New England, his base salary was in the neighborhood of $400k per year. He played for 12 years, 183 games. Of course, he renegotiated his contract a few times along the way, but Hannah never made the kind of money stars of today make in the NFL. After his career in football, he held several jobs in coaching, making considerably less income. Currently, he works for a friend of mine, and makes less than $40k per year. The wealth he enjoyed while playing football is gone, he literally came begging my friend for a job. Big John made decent money in his day, but pro football careers are relatively short, and the lifestyle you are expected to maintain is very expensive. In any event, the man was never "wealthy" and for his entire career, probably earned less than an average #4 draft pick signs for these days.

What the fuck does this little story have to do with fair taxation??

He was rich - he's not rich now. NOT RELEVANT TO YOUR POINT AT ALL.

EXAMPLE #1 = FAIL.

Next up, a man you don't know, is name is David Hilliard. He works as an underwater welder on oil/gas pipelines in Texas. David knocks down a cool $240k per year, but he works his ass off and takes extreme risk to his life and health, every day. Aside from the dangers related to diving, he also faces a risk of electrocution, and there are a number of high health risks from the environment itself. In my opinion, he is underpaid for what he does.

He makes less than 250K, not "rich" or in the highest tax bracket.

Re: the risks -- that's why we pay uneducated people high sums of money, risk of electrocution.

EXAMPLE #2 = FAIL by electrocution

Finally, a woman I know, named Lisa. She started a cleaning business in 1992, following the death of her husband, and being left to raise 3 children with no experience or work history. She slowly built a small business from the ground up, starting with a shoestring budget, eating mac-and-cheese for dinner every night, her children qualifying for government assistance, and living in low income housing. Twenty years later, she oversees 6 crews of 4 people each, and files her taxes as an individual, showing an income of around $200k per year. However, that is the income from her business, and she has to pay for everything related to the business, including her employees wages and benefits. Now, she did manage to send all three of her children to college, and she owns a modest home, but she is not a 'wealthy' person, by any stretch.

Do you know anything about how the super-rich live and earn??

Do you have the slightest clue about how taxes work???


She's not rich -- or super-rich. NOT RELEVANT.

EXAMPLE #3 = FAIL

The point here is this;

OH SHUTUP AND GO AWAY, DR. FAIL.

 

[DiamondDave]

That principle would eliminate every income tax reduction related to children/dependents and make the tax burden on someone with 4 kids exactly the same as someone with 0 kids.

Try selling that to the American public.

Yep.. because it should not be a sell job trying to give someone an advantage over someone else... I have 2 kids for deductions, and child deductions are to my advantage, but I would rather be treated equally all around than take advantage in situation A and be taken advantage of in situations B and C... this game has to stop

Unfortunately, the American populace usually wants to have them get over on someone else.. and don't realize that the games of pandering are generally fucking them over and empowering the government more and more

It's hard to have a democratic system of government that doesn't give the voters what they want.

What you're suggesting would amount to an income tax increase of virtually every American taxpayer with dependent children;

there is not even an imaginable scenario where that would happen.

That is why we have a constitutional republic, asslick.. to hopefully prevent tyranny of the majority which is how we got the 'you pay for my services' bullshit system

And your 'increase' argument again.. why not mention how this would be an increase for about 60% of citizens.. you know.. the ~47% that pay ZERO in federal income tax and the group that pays practically nothing??

What it is is correcting an advantage that NEVER should have been put into place to begin with... there should NEVER have been a system to have 1 group or situation take advantage over another...

Funny thing is ones always worry about forcing increases on themselves or those whom they empathize with.. but have no problem forcing increases on those they 'think can better afford it'... more of that subjective equality when it benefits you or those you like

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

If I understand you correctly. If you make 50k a year, you would have no problem paying income taxes at the same rate as the person making 10 million a year? That about it?

You think you at 50k are the "equal" of the person making 10 million a year? Equal opportunity to influence Congress. Participate in national elections by making contributions of millions of dollars. Call your Congressperson and have them clear their calander for YOU. Are you that "equal" Dave? People making millions and millions and contributing millions to campaigns are more "equal" than you Dave. Jus the way it is.

Here's a little tip for you. That's crazy. And I can personally guarantee you that the person making 10 million a year does not think that you (making 50k) are his/her "equal". No matterwhat you think.

That's why millionares are not hanging out with the workers. They ain't equal.

Yep.. 50K is one vote.. 500MIL is one vote..

What that 'other' person thinks is of no consequence... I don't care of they think I look like a sea slug either... they are FREE To do that...

ANd I have called my congressman and got to see them.. even when I was making only 70K a year

You are grasping at straws, idiot.. all because equality in treatment takes away your ability to make other people pay for what you want while you get a zero bill...

You are a ledgend in your own mind dude. But you ain't gonna get "equal" treatment with your 70k a year as compared to the person making 10 million a year.

If you don't understand that, you are fuking to stupid to educate.

And why in the fuk would you think I pay no taxes on my 110k of joint income? Project much? Or just a sore loser? You have been trotting out this bull shit every body pay the same tax rate for months. Not getting much traction is it?

You can have equal Federal taxes, if you placed such revenue based on the purchased we make. Obviously someone making only $30, 000 a year is not going to afford a multimillion dollar yacht. Let the rich buy their toys and luxury lifestyle, just give the Federal Government their flat revenue tax on the purchase. A flat federal tax on all purchases, with the elimination of the traditional Federal Income tax and eliminating most of the IRS tax agents whose positions are no longer required, would establish a more "equal" tax system than we have today.

The problem of government is not on it's tax system and the collection of revenue, it's found in their inability to live within their means. Instead of reducing the cost of government, they expand it with over 20 worthless czars, a government controlled healthcare department, duplicate Federal departments, etc. It's the growing size of government, it's incompetence and unwillingness to budget one's own house, with it's growing power and political arrogance that they no longer have to answer to "we the people" - that's the problem.

 

[Boss]

Are you another one of those that think you should pay YOUR taxes at the exact same rate as the ultra rich? 39%?

Or are you fantazing about getting your tax rate down to 10% along with the ultra rich?

You and DD, all men may have been "created" equal in that we all come from a mother with all of the same basic equipment. But if you think being born into poverty is "equal" to being born to wealth, well that's just fuking crazy.

I'm one of those who thinks we should abandon income taxation entirely, and adopt a consumption tax instead. We are a consumer-driven nation who likes to buy shit, so this would work out very nicely, because people wouldn't stop buying shit. I am also one of those who think we should eliminate capital gains taxation and corporate taxes entirely. This would generate trillions of dollars in investment capital from sources all over the globe, and foreign business would literally be lined up to bring their jobs and companies to the US, where there is an abundant educated workforce and no taxation. In 5 years, we would literally have to grant amnesty to the illegal aliens, just to have enough people to fill all the new jobs created. There would be such a high demand for labor, the wages paid would become staggering, as companies vied for the best workers.

But if you think being born into poverty is "equal" to being born to wealth, well that's just fuking crazy.

Make no mistake, every human being is born into a different circumstance. No two people are equal in that regard, except in a Communist Totalitarian state like China, where everyone is born into poverty and never has the opportunity to escape it. This is what you and your ilk think is more acceptable, than having a free market system where people have the opportunity to become as rich as they want to, regardless of where they started out.

Our free market capitalist system is superior to any other system devised by man, it is responsible for creating more millionaires and billionaires than any other system ever tried. Only in America, can a homeless person become a billionaire, if they have the motivation and determination to succeed. This opportunity is what prompts people to construct makeshift rafts to come to America.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Why do some people think it is OK for one person to be taxed on nearly all of his income and another to be taxed on only a small percentage of his income?

Consumption tax my ass.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

They fail to realize one key fundamental, we don't tax wealth in America. We tax incomes.

Yes, clearly, they must not realize this! When they campaign on platforms of "repealing the Bush tax cuts for people who earn over $250,000 a year" - clearly, they have no idea that its the income is taxed. Thank you for bringing up this important non-point!

 

[edthecynic]

I'm one of those who thinks we should abandon income taxation entirely, and adopt a consumption tax instead. We are a consumer-driven nation who likes to buy shit, so this would work out very nicely, because people wouldn't stop buying shit. I am also one of those who think we should eliminate capital gains taxation and corporate taxes entirely.

Why eliminate corporate taxes? We should eliminate all other taxes and replace then with a corporate tax.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You There is no stereotype which applies to everyone, we don't live in a cookie-cutter world.

Of course - except the stereotype that all liberals think of the wealthy as Mr. Burns! Without that stereotype the premise of this entire essay would be pointless and the blogger who wrote it would have nothing to do to make his fellow teabaggers think he's smart.

 

[Avatar4321]

The problem with "taxing the rich" is it buys into the socialist fantasy that we as a people are divided because some of us make more money than the other. I am a free man. All of my brethen are my equals in my eyes and before the law regardless of whether they make more or less money than I do. We need to stop playing into their games and thinking that we are different because of the amount of money we have.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The problem with "taxing the rich" is it buys into the socialist fantasy that we as a people are divided because some of us make more money than the other.

That's right - that's the problem. It has nothing to do with practical consequences - but entirely to do with what it "buys into" - whatever that means.

I am a free man. All of my brethen are my equals in my eyes and before the law regardless of whether they make more or less money than I do. We need to stop playing into their games and thinking that we are different because of the amount of money we have.

If having more or less money didn't make a difference people wouldn't be trying so hard to have money.

 

[Avatar4321]

The problem with "taxing the rich" is it buys into the socialist fantasy that we as a people are divided because some of us make more money than the other.

That's right - that's the problem. It has nothing to do with practical consequences - but entirely to do with what it "buys into" - whatever that means.

I am a free man. All of my brethen are my equals in my eyes and before the law regardless of whether they make more or less money than I do. We need to stop playing into their games and thinking that we are different because of the amount of money we have.

If having more or less money didn't make a difference people wouldn't be trying so hard to have money.

I didnt say money doesn't make a difference. You can do lots of good and evil with money.

I said the amount of money we make doesn't make us different. I am not any less a free man because i make more money or less money than you. Nor are you different than me. Before the eyes of the law, we are equally free men who can determine our own destinies.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The problem with "taxing the rich" is it buys into the socialist fantasy that we as a people are divided because some of us make more money than the other.

That's right - that's the problem. It has nothing to do with practical consequences - but entirely to do with what it "buys into" - whatever that means.

I am a free man. All of my brethen are my equals in my eyes and before the law regardless of whether they make more or less money than I do. We need to stop playing into their games and thinking that we are different because of the amount of money we have.

If having more or less money didn't make a difference people wouldn't be trying so hard to have money.

I didnt say money doesn't make a difference. You can do lots of good and evil with money.

I said the amount of money we make doesn't make us different. I am not any less a free man because i make more money or less money than you. Nor are you different than me. Before the eyes of the law, we are equally free men who can determine our own destinies.

Wow. Great speech. So what.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Over the past decade or so, the cries from the left have become incessantly loud, that we must dramatically increase taxes on the rich, who supposedly "don't pay their fair share," and have "more money than they need." When you attempt to have a civil conversation with these people, they tune you out, and insist that rich people are greedy bastards who all fit some stereotype of Homer Simpson's boss. They fail to realize one key fundamental, we don't tax wealth in America. We tax incomes.

No one with a clue ever said to tax wealth. Every rational person discusses taxing income.

A girly-type swing an' a miss. Strike one.

Now, this doesn't matter to the left, they presume that people who earn high incomes are rich folk, like Homer Simpson's boss. These rich people get paid outrageous amounts of money to sit around drinking bourbon and yucking it up at the country club about who they screwed over this week, while their wives blow money like Paris Hilton in a little dog shop. They buy their kids Hummers for graduation, and go on lavish vacations to Barbados or Fiji. The left has developed this false perception based on stereotypes, and nothing can penetrate the prejudice.

100% projection. 100% wasted bandwidth.

A 75mph fast ball down the middle. Bat on wimpy shoulder. Called strike two.

The truth of the matter is, there are all kinds of different people who earn a lot of income, and not all of them are wealthy. There are also very wealthy people who earn very little income at all, and simply live off of their wealth and investments. There is no stereotype which applies to everyone, we don't live in a cookie-cutter world. This is the biggest problem I have with setting any arbitrary amount at which we determine is "enough" without regard for what the individual does, or the value of their contribution.

No one has suggested setting an amount of wealth to tax. As you pointed out earlier, the US don't tax wealth. Still, the rest of it made sense; the umpire had called time out. No pitch.

I want to present a few examples for your consideration, in order to illustrate what I am saying. First up, John Hannah...

Batter's time out... No pitch.

Next up, a man you don't know, is name is David Hilliard...

Catcher goes to the mound. No pitch.

Finally, a woman I know, named Lisa. ...

Umpire asks if everybody is ready to play some baseball? Or they want to keep pissing around?

The point here is this... There is a difference between David, who earns $240k a year risking his life every day, and some ingrate who inherited the rights to his father's music royalties, which earn $240k per year.

No. There isn't. The United States taxes income, remember?

Bat never left shoulder, another pony league fastball down the center. Called strike three.

Taxes are taxes. What one does for a living is irrelevant to a spreadsheet unless job-specific tax effects are programmed in.

The issues are what rates to charge in a progressive tax scheme and what deductions - if any, make sense.

That is pretty much all the issues.

 

[Boss]

Why do some people think it is OK for one person to be taxed on nearly all of his income and another to be taxed on only a small percentage of his income?

Consumption tax my ass.

Consumption tax would not tax anyone's income. The Fair Tax plan discussed last year, would have implemented a prebate to low income families, so they wouldn't even have paid the consumption tax for basic needs. Meanwhile, the average family would realize an extra couple hundred dollars a week in their paychecks, which no longer had payroll taxes deducted. Now, I don't know about you, I am pretty well off financially, but an extra $800 a month in my pocket, would certainly change my spending habits.

Oh..... But the thing is, you libtards would no longer be able to wage class warfare anymore, preying on people's jealousy and envy of others and attacking people you don't feel deserve what they've obtained. You'd have to get used to that.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm one of those who thinks we should abandon income taxation entirely, and adopt a consumption tax instead. We are a consumer-driven nation who likes to buy shit, so this would work out very nicely, because people wouldn't stop buying shit. I am also one of those who think we should eliminate capital gains taxation and corporate taxes entirely.

Why eliminate corporate taxes? We should eliminate all other taxes and replace then with a corporate tax.

How thoroughly ignorant...

 

[Boss]

I'm one of those who thinks we should abandon income taxation entirely, and adopt a consumption tax instead. We are a consumer-driven nation who likes to buy shit, so this would work out very nicely, because people wouldn't stop buying shit. I am also one of those who think we should eliminate capital gains taxation and corporate taxes entirely.

Why eliminate corporate taxes? We should eliminate all other taxes and replace then with a corporate tax.

Then you'd see a mass exodus of US corporations to Canada and Mexico, and places with lower corporate tax rates. Guess what leaves with the corporations? A thing called JOBS!

Why eliminate corporate taxes? Simple, it would revive American manufacturing like nothing else we could do. It would cause the creation of millions of jobs, as companies from around the world flocked to this country to set up shop.

 

[Avatar4321]

Wow. Great speech. So what.

Think about it sometime and you'll figure it out.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm one of those who thinks we should abandon income taxation entirely, and adopt a consumption tax instead. We are a consumer-driven nation who likes to buy shit, so this would work out very nicely, because people wouldn't stop buying shit. I am also one of those who think we should eliminate capital gains taxation and corporate taxes entirely.

Why eliminate corporate taxes? We should eliminate all other taxes and replace then with a corporate tax.

Then you'd see a mass exodus of US corporations to Canada and Mexico, and places with lower corporate tax rates. Guess what leaves with the corporations? A thing called JOBS!

Why eliminate corporate taxes? Simple, it would revive American manufacturing like nothing else we could do. It would cause the creation of millions of jobs, as companies from around the world flocked to this country to set up shop.

The problem our society has is that there are alot of people who don't think out the logical consequences of what their actions/policies.